Anti "Ground Zero Mosque" rhetoric bolstering Islamic extremist claims in other countries - Polidicks

[QUOTE] WASHINGTON — Some counterterrorism experts say the anti-Muslim sentiment that has saturated the airwaves and blogs in the debate over plans for an Islamic center near ground zero in Lower Manhattan is playing into the hands of extremists by bolstering their claims that the United States is hostile to Islam. Opposition to the center by prominent politicians and other public figures in the United States has been covered extensively by the news media in Muslim countries. At a time of concern about radicalization of young Muslims in the West, it risks adding new fuel to [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/a/al_qaeda/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]Al Qaeda[/URL]’s claim that Islam is under attack by the West and must be defended with violence, some specialists on Islamic militancy say. “I know people in this debate don’t intend it, but there are consequences for these kinds of remarks,” said Brian Fishman, who studies terrorism for the [URL="http://www.newamerica.net/"]New America Foundation[/URL] here. He said that [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/anwar_al_awlaki/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Anwar al-Awlaki[/URL], an American-born cleric hiding in Yemen who has been linked to several terrorist plots, has been arguing for months in Web speeches and in a new Qaeda magazine that American Muslims face a dark future of ever-worsening discrimination and vilification. “When the rhetoric is so inflammatory that it serves the interests of a jihadi recruiter like Awlaki, politicians need to be called on it,” Mr. Fishman said. Evan F. Kohlmann, who tracks militant Web sites at the security consulting firm Flashpoint Global Partners, said supporters of Al Qaeda have seized on the controversy “with glee.” On radical Web forums, he said, the dispute over the Islamic center, which would include space for worship, is lumped together with fringe developments like a Florida pastor’s call for making Sept. 11 “Burn a Koran Day.” “It’s seen as proof of what Awlaki and others have been saying, that the U.S. is hypocritical and that most Americans are enemies of Islam,” Mr. Kohlmann said. He called the anti-Islam statements spawned by the dispute “disturbing and sad” and said they were feeding anti-American sentiment that could provoke violence. While some critics of the Islamic center have carefully limited their objection to its proximity to the site of the Sept. 11 attacks, and have rejected any suggestion that they are anti-Muslim, the issue has tapped into a well of suspicion and hostility to Islam across the country. Many Republican politicians, including [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/newt_gingrich/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Newt Gingrich[/URL] and [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/sarah_palin/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Sarah Palin[/URL], have said that the proposed location of the center showed insensitivity to the victims of 9/11. Others political leaders, including [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]President Obama[/URL], Mayor [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/michael_r_bloomberg/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Michael R. Bloomberg[/URL] of New York and Gov. [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/christopher_j_christie/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Christopher J. Christie[/URL] of New Jersey, have defended the right of Muslims to build the center or warned against anti-Muslim hysteria. The dispute has tapped strong emotions in the wake of a series of terrorist plots and attacks over the last year aimed at American targets, several of them inspired or encouraged by Mr. Awlaki. The events included the killing of 13 people in November at Fort Hood, Tex., by an Army psychiatrist, Nidal Malik Hasan; the failed attack on a Detroit-bound airliner on Dec. 25 by a young Nigerian man; and the attempted bombing of Times Square in May by Faisal Shahzad, a financial analyst who had worked for a Connecticut cosmetics company. Mr. Awlaki, whose Web diatribes calling for attacks on the United States have turned up repeatedly in terrorism investigations, has sought to counter the notion that American tolerance extends to Muslims. In a March posting, Mr. Awlaki, who lived in the United States for nearly 20 years, predicted that America would become “a land of religious discrimination and concentration camps.” “Don’t be deceived by the promises of preserving your rights from a government that is right now killing your own brothers and sisters,” he wrote. “Today, with the war between Muslims and the West escalating, you cannot count on the message of solidarity you may get from a civic group or a political party, or the word of support you hear from a kind neighbor or a nice co-worker. The West will eventually turn against its Muslim citizens!” Dalia Mogahed of the [URL="http://www.gallup.com/se/127907/gallup-center-muslim-studies.aspx"]Gallup Center for Muslim Studies[/URL] said the outcry over the proposed center “plays into Awlaki’s arguments and [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/osama_bin_laden/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Osama bin Laden[/URL]’s arguments” by suggesting that Islam has no place in the United States. She said that extreme anti-Muslim views in the United States ironically mirror a central tenet of extreme Islamists: “That the world is divided into two camps, and they’re irreconcilable, and Muslims have to choose which side they’re on.” Mr. Gingrich, the former House speaker and a potential 2012 presidential candidate, said in a Fox News interview that “Nazis don’t have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust museum in Washington,” a comment that drew criticism for appearing to equate those proposing the Islamic center with Nazis. Asked about the view that such remarks could fuel radicalism, Mr. Gingrich sent an e-mail response on Friday that did not directly address his critics but said that “Americans must learn to tell the truth about radical Islamists while being supportive of and inclusive of moderate Muslims who live in the modern world, respect women’s rights, reject medieval punishment and defend American laws and the American Constitution.” He added that he believed “it is possible to be a deeply religious Muslim and a patriotic American.” Muqtedar Khan, an associate professor of political science at the University of Delaware, said he was not sure the Islamic center dispute alone would radicalize anyone. But he said it was “demoralizing” for Muslims like him who defend the United States as an open and tolerant society. “For the first time, anti-Islamic rhetoric has gone mainstream,” he said. “What this really does is weaken the moderates and undermine their credibility.” [/QUOTE][URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/21/world/21muslim.html?_r=3"]Source [/URL] A few days old, but I didn't see a topic for it. It's so depressing that the supposed bastion of freedom that is America would present this image of intolerance and demagoguery to the rest of the world. Of course it's going to help extremism, it's an actual concrete thing they can point to and say "here! see!? the west hates islam!", because that's how it's going to be perceived amongst these people.

Once again, it's not a mosque. It's a community center that has a prayer center for Muslims in it.

[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24321769]Once again, it's not a mosque. It's a community center that has a prayer center for Muslims in it.[/QUOTE] :sigh: Yes, I know, thus why I put it in quotation marks. "Ground Zero Mosque" makes for a more reasonable title than "New York Islamic Community Center"

[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24321769]Once again, it's not a mosque. It's a community center that has a prayer center for Muslims in it.[/QUOTE] It's like calling a mall, a gamestop since it has one.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;24321815]:sigh: Yes, I know, thus why I put it in quotation marks. "Ground Zero Mosque" makes for a more reasonable title than "New York Islamic Community Center"[/QUOTE] I think they should call it the Anti-America Commie Square

Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.

[QUOTE=jantz;24322374]Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.[/QUOTE] And this is exactly the kind of ignorance that causes all of this hate in the first place.

There is a mosque being built in northern British Columbia that's apparently the first ever. It has immense support from the city though, so wooo canadians.

[QUOTE=jantz;24322374]Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.[/QUOTE] The "Islamic terrorists" who destroyed the towers weren't muslims at all. The only reason you associate the hijackers with regular muslim people is because of prejudice: Oh, they wear the same kind of clothing, oh, the same language, the same skin color, the same country, they read the same holy book. Must all have the same motives, too then, right?

[QUOTE=jantz;24322374]Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.[/QUOTE] It wasn't about religion. It was about the wests continued support of Israel and retaliation from sanctions placed on Iraq.

[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24322401]And this is exactly the kind of ignorance that causes all of this hate in the first place.[/QUOTE] Aside his opposition to building the mosque (excuse me, community center), he raises a decent, less obvious issue. Religion, even if it does benefit some of the sane, gives births to hates groups. Ku Klux Klan - Christianity, Nazis - Catholic, and now Al Qaeda with Islam. I wouldn't say religion is the bane of human existence, but it's at the very least another way to reason someone's crazy ass idea. Brilliant idea - Build a Church of Christ in the middle east somewhere, ideally Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

[QUOTE=Hostel;24322895]Aside his opposition to building the mosque (excuse me, community center), he raises a decent, less obvious issue. Religion, even if it does benefit some of the sane, gives births to hates groups. Ku Klux Klan - Christianity, Nazis - Catholic, and now Al Qaeda with Islam. I wouldn't say religion is the bane of human existence, but it's at the very least another way to reason someone's crazy ass idea.[/QUOTE] No, he doesn't raise a "decent, less obvious issue" because it's not the issue here. He's being just as ignorant as Muslim extremists are.

[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24322962]No, he doesn't raise a "decent, less obvious issue" because it's not the issue here. He's being just as ignorant as Muslim extremists are.[/QUOTE] I say we build the mosque to prevent more propaganda from being made. I have learned recently of something called Taqiyya that was explained in a video. In short, it allows Muslims to purposefully deceive non-Muslims if it helps spread Islam.

oh god I hope I see the last church/synagogue/mosque torn to the ground before I die. All this stupidity and anger over a lousy essentially worthless belief system.. so:sigh:ety sucks :(

[QUOTE=jantz;24322374]Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.[/QUOTE] The men who did the attacks were not Muslim, they conspired to commit violence, which instantly makes them non-muslim.

[QUOTE=pieman;24323213]The men who did the attacks were not Muslim, they conspired to commit violence, which instantly makes them non-muslim.[/QUOTE] Ok, we've distinguished the crazies from the Muslims. Now, I would just like to know, since we do in fact allow freedom of religion, if we could build a Church of Christ somewhere in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

[QUOTE=jantz;24322374]Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.[/QUOTE] Well, it's about two blocks away from Ground Zero. I bet no one wouldn't care at all if Christianity motivated them.

Has anyone ever even read or watched Osama Bin Ladens addresses? I don't know how you could claim he does not follow Islam and is not motivated by it; he justifies nearly all of his actions with "our religion and intellect implores us to" type of deals. Yes, it's a perversion of the faith. Yes, most Muslims think he's insane and in no way condone his actions. No, he does not represent the teachings of Islam. Does this change the fact that he, and the faction he leads, is Muslim? No.

If this was a church, it'd be no big deal, but because it's a Mosque the crazy crew decides to protest. The man behind it is NOT extremist, I saw his wife on TV with makeup and a pants suit on, that right there says how down to earth and average of a man he is. [editline]06:10PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Regulas021;24323588]Has anyone ever even read or watched Osama Bin Ladens addresses? I don't know how you could claim he does not follow Islam and is not motivated by it; he justifies nearly all of his actions with "our religion and intellect implores us to" type of deals. Yes, it's a perversion of the faith. Yes, most Muslims think he's insane and in no way condone his actions. No, he does not represent the teachings of Islam. Does this change the fact that he, and the faction he leads, is Muslim? No.[/QUOTE] The men who bombed the same building a few years before were Christian. Do we hate on Christianity?

[QUOTE=Regulas021;24323588]Has anyone ever even read or watched Osama Bin Ladens addresses? I don't know how you could claim he does not follow Islam and is not motivated by it; he justifies nearly all of his actions with "our religion and intellect implores us to" type of deals. Yes, it's a perversion of the faith. Yes, most Muslims think he's insane and in no way condone his actions. No, he does not represent the teachings of Islam. Does this change the fact that he, and the faction he leads, is Muslim? No.[/QUOTE] It's because Osama Bin Laden made his own rules about Islam, and brainwashed people with it.

[QUOTE=jantz;24322374]Why can't they just build somewhere else? It's really disrespectful to lots of people, because it was religion that brought the terrorists to crash the planes into the twin towers.[/QUOTE] Shut up. There's already an Islamic Prayer center (It's a basement, literally) pretty close to Ground Zero, and it's been there since shortly before the WTC was even completed/opened, and is still there nine years after the WTC was destroyed.

[QUOTE=Hostel;24323085]I say we build the mosque to prevent more propaganda from being made. I have learned recently of something called Taqiyya that was explained in a video. In short, it allows Muslims to purposefully deceive non-Muslims if it helps spread Islam.[/QUOTE] Guess what A doctrine of mental reservation (concealing the truth but not outright lying) exists in pretty much every religion, philosophy, subculture, group, so forth. It's kind of important when you're the constant target of bigots and racists.

[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24322363]I think they should call it the Anti-America Commie Square[/QUOTE] a+ idea

Yea every religion basically says "If your life is endangered you can ignore all our rules."

[QUOTE=Hostel;24323085]I say we build the mosque to prevent more propaganda from being made. I have learned recently of something called Taqiyya that was explained in a video. In short, it allows Muslims to purposefully deceive non-Muslims if it helps spread Islam.[/QUOTE] Actually, Taqiyya means you can pretend you're not a Muslim if you are in danger for being Muslim. It was made when one of Muhammeds lieutenants pretended to convert to paganism so he wouldn't be tortured and killed.

Bigots gonna hate.

[QUOTE=Jawalt;24323598]If this was a church, it'd be no big deal, but because it's a Mosque the crazy crew decides to protest. The man behind it is NOT extremist, I saw his wife on TV with makeup and a pants suit on, that right there says how down to earth and average of a man he is. [editline]06:10PM[/editline] The men who bombed the same building a few years before were Christian. Do we hate on Christianity?[/QUOTE] No, and hating on Islam for the attacks is fucking retarded, but that doesn't mean they werent Muslims.

[QUOTE=Regulas021;24325768]No, and hating on Islam for the attacks is fucking retarded, but that doesn't mean they werent Muslims.[/QUOTE] and this matters how?

[QUOTE=Regulas021;24325768]No, and hating on Islam for the attacks is fucking retarded, but that doesn't mean they werent Muslims.[/QUOTE] And that's relevant, how? Other than to spread hatred against other Muslims/Islam just because a small group of them did something bad? [editline]08:56PM[/editline] And NO ONE said they weren't Muslims. We're saying that their actions had nothing to do with Islam.

[QUOTE=JDK721;24327575]And NO ONE said they weren't Muslims.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=b4nny;24322708]The "Islamic terrorists" who destroyed the towers weren't muslims at all. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=pieman;24323213]The men who did the attacks were not Muslim[/QUOTE] what