Controversy surrounds firing of Marines' female recruit battalion CO - Polidicks

[quote=Marine Times]On one occasion, the investigation found, she made comments during a sexual assault prevention brief that female Marines interpreted as victim-blaming, leading some to testify that it would make them feel less comfortable reporting a sexual assault within the command. Germano also "reinforced gender bias and stereotypes" in the minds of her Marines by telling them on several occasions that male Marines would not take orders from them and would see them as inferior if they could not meet men's physical standards, the investigation found. The nearly 300-page document included more than two dozen partially redacted interviews and written statements from Marines at Parris Island and within Germano's unit. It also included the results of a Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute command climate survey taken by 64 members of the battalion in April. The survey found that nearly half of respondents thought the unit did not promote a climate based on respect and trust, and nearly 20 percent of respondents believed the unit did not create an environment where victims would feel comfortable reporting a sexual assault. In a letter to 4th Recruit Training Battalion following her relief, Germano painted a different picture — one in which her unit had excelled regardless of outside opposition. "Despite considerable active and passive resistance throughout all echelons of the Recruit Depot and the Marine Corps, we each worked incredibly hard to improve the performance of our recruits to make them stronger, faster, smarter, and better shots — all to better the institution," she wrote. "We achieved unprecedented and historic results in just a short period of time, and regardless of the controversy cause by our goal to improve the caliber of our graduates, I ask that you remain steadfast and committed to this objective." [B]A year at Parris Island[/B] A legal officer by training, Germano took command of the unit last June. At the post, she was responsible for leading nearly 100 Marines and overseeing three drill instructor teams, responsible for 22 boot camp series graduations per year. In her 18 years as a Marine officer, she held a number of high-profile positions, including a year as Marine aide to Navy Secretary Ray Mabus in 2011. She previously served as commander of Recruiting Station San Diego, screening potential recruits from 2007-2010. According the accounts of three officers who served at Parris Island and spoke with Marine Corps Times, Germano was dismayed upon arrival to find that the all-female recruit battalion was kept separate from its male counterparts for events such as the Crucible hike, the famed concluding challenge of boot camp. The unit, she found, struggled to retain adequate enlisted and officer staff because of its all-female composition, resulting in shortened rest periods between boot camp series and overworked Marines. She also discovered that the standards for female recruit performance in objective skills such as shooting were historically lower than for male recruits. "What she did when she came is she changed the mentality of the Marines in the battalion and the recruits to not expect a historically lower performance than the male recruits at the battalion," said a female Marine officer stationed at the depot, one of three who spoke with Marine Corps Times on condition of anonymity, for fear of professional retribution. "Almost all the categories performed better during her tenure, just by challenging the training protocol of performing separately." Parris Island officials confirmed that range qualification scores improved dramatically within 4th RTB during Germano's tenure. From 2014-2015, average first-time rifle qualification rates for the depot's three male battalions improved from 93 percent to 96 percent, said Col. Jeff Fultz, chief of staff for Parris Island and the Eastern Recruiting Region. During the same timeframe, rifle qual rates for the female battalion soared from 79 percent to 91 percent. A May 18 "request mast" memo submitted to Williams, the depot commander, shows that Germano believed these efforts were being undermined by her immediate superior, Recruit Training Regiment commander Col. Daniel Haas. Germano wrote that Haas had an "intractable stance" regarding her ability to command that was further cemented by the poor results of the April command climate survey. Haas declined through his command to offer comment on the request mast. "Through his words, actions, and omissions, he has empowered malcontents within my unit to foment dissent as demonstrated by the very pointed and similar comments about me in the recent [Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute] survey," she wrote. "...This has resulted in a climate where female Marines who seek out the regiment staff to complain that the battalion leadership is mean are treated with kid gloves (feelings vs. facts)." In the request, she asked that depot leadership be directed to consider 100 percent of the battalion's feedback in forming a perspective on the unit's command climate, and that the entire unit be allowed to take a Commandant of the Marine Corps command climate survey, administered in a formal, controlled way. The DEOMI survey, she said, had been loosely controlled, allowing disgruntled Marines to take it multiple times and negatively weight the responses. According to official documentation, 64 of the 99 members of the battalion took the survey, and at least one respondent admitted to taking it more than once, though it's not clear what kind of feedback the respondent provided. [B]'Throw like a girl'[/B] The Parris Island command investigation and witness statements paint a portrait of Germano as a driven officer who could be abrasive and aggressive, and doggedly pursued the goal of unit improvement to the apparent alienation of at least some Marines in the command. The document describes a May 9 Crucible hump conducted by the battalion's Papa Company, which finished about a half mile behind a male recruit company. Witnesses alleged Germano took the company to task in a meeting two days after the hike, saying it was the worst she'd ever seen and the Marines in the company should be as embarrassed as she was about it. She also told the Papa Company Marines company that they were responsible for the negative comments in the command climate survey and that she was tired of being blamed, the investigation states. If the unit's members "focused on doing the right thing instead of running outside of [the battalion] talking about how mean she was and how horrible the command is, our command climate would be just fine," she told the unit, according to one member who was interviewed. Another event that illustrates the tension between Germano's attempt at reform and the pushback from her unit came the same month, when she showed the short film "Throw Like a Girl," to a group of new Marines. Created for a Procter & Gamble advertisement that was screened during the Super Bowl, the video illustrates how many take the descriptor "like a girl" to mean weak or ineffective. The class then took a hard-edged turn, according to multiple witness statements, when Germano singled out Marines who couldn't perform three pullups or complete a physical fitness test's 3-mile run in less than 23 minutes. Making these Marines stand, she told them they wouldn't be able to lead their male counterparts in the fleet, witnesses said.[/quote] Its a long as shit article.

[quote]Germano also "reinforced gender bias and stereotypes" in the minds of her Marines by telling them on several occasions that male Marines would not take orders from them and would see them as inferior if they could not meet men's physical standards, the investigation found. [/quote] How is this stereotyping/confirming gender bias? I'm fairly certain most Soldiers/Marines will follow any leader who shows (s)he's deserving of that position. If you're physically less capable without that being caused by disability/wounds, you're going to have a hell of a time proving you're capable. In fact, quoting this from further on in the article: [quote]when Germano singled out Marines who couldn't perform three pullups or complete a physical fitness test's 3-mile run in less than 23 minutes.[/quote] That's just embarassing, considering their male counterparts can do it (and are required to do so). What's the point in having a marine, regardless of gender, who can't even fucking do this? I'm fairly certain I could do both of those. In fact, I [b]know[/b] I can do that 3-mile run in less than 23 minutes cause I've done it before and I'm nowhere NEAR the level of physical fitness I'd expect a marine to be.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;48178713]How is this stereotyping/confirming gender bias? I'm fairly certain most Soldiers/Marines will follow any leader who shows (s)he's deserving of that position. If you're physically less capable without that being caused by disability/wounds, you're going to have a hell of a time proving you're capable. In fact, quoting this from further on in the article: That's just embarassing, considering their male counterparts can do it (and are required to do so). What's the point in having a marine, regardless of gender, who can't even fucking do this? I'm fairly certain I could do both of those. In fact, I [b]know[/b] I can do that 3-mile run in less than 23 minutes cause I've done it before and I'm nowhere NEAR the level of physical fitness I'd expect a marine to be.[/QUOTE] They probably do it in army gear.

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;48178764]They probably do it in army gear.[/QUOTE] Possibly, but they're also trained to do so. They have to be in top condition physically, while I'm not.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;48178870]Possibly, but they're also trained to do so. They have to be in top condition physically, while I'm not.[/QUOTE] You've been watching too many movies. The majority of the jobs in all branches of the military, including the Marines, are not physically demanding combat positions.

[QUOTE=Apache249;48178918]You've been watching too many movies. The majority of the jobs in all branches of the military, including the Marines, are not physically demanding combat positions.[/QUOTE] What happened to "Every Marine a rifleman"?

[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;48180419]What happened to "Every Marine a rifleman"?[/QUOTE] It's a marketing slogan to get the meatiest of the meat heads to not complain about their shit MOS because they can't comprehend that pogs are a valuable part of every branch since the Marines basically throw your name into the big job hat and pick at random from what my marine friend told me. In the Army you sign a contract that pretty much says that unless you're completely incompetent and fail out of your MOS school, you will get that MOS or your contract is void and you can go home. Like yeah, every marine is trained as an infantryman. But uhh, so is every soldier in the Army too. BCT applies to everyone, the Marines just tote it as a feature and not just something that makes sense to logically do anyway.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;48178713]In fact, I [b]know[/b] I can do that 3-mile run in less than 23 minutes cause I've done it before and I'm nowhere NEAR the level of physical fitness I'd expect a marine to be.[/QUOTE] Trust me, if you can run a 3 mile in less than 23 minutes then you are well within the physical standards the Marine Corps wants. They don't want strong, big guys. They want people who are light, skinny and fast. You'd be suprised how many actual Marines cant run the 3 mile in under 25 minutes. [QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;48178764]They probably do it in army gear.[/QUOTE] Nope, they do it in just shorts and a t shirt.

[QUOTE=draugur;48180481]It's a marketing slogan to get the meatiest of the meat heads to not complain about their shit MOS because they can't comprehend that pogs are a valuable part of every branch since the Marines basically throw your name into the big job hat and pick at random from what my marine friend told me. In the Army you sign a contract that pretty much says that unless you're completely incompetent and fail out of your MOS school, you will get that MOS or your contract is void and you can go home. Like yeah, every marine is trained as an infantryman. But uhh, so is every soldier in the Army too. BCT applies to everyone, the Marines just tote it as a feature and not just something that makes sense to logically do anyway.[/QUOTE] The difference is the Army has separate training routes for their men that they stick to, where the Marines do not. In the army they're not going to pull some administration guy to kick down doors, they've got enough man power where they don't need to. The Marines on the other hand form provisional rifle batallions all the time in combat zones. Your MOS doesn't mean shit once your in country for a Marine. You're an LAV mechanic? Well now you're a machine gunner. You're a mail clerk? Here's a SMAW. Hell even I kept doing infantry training even though I was a Huey crew chief, I was considered to valuable to go outside the wire but if things went to shit I could.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48180627]The difference is the Army has separate training routes for their men that they stick to, where the Marines do not. In the army they're not going to pull some administration guy to kick down doors, they've got enough man power where they don't need to. The Marines on the other hand form provisional rifle batallions all the time in combat zones. Your MOS doesn't mean shit once your in country for a Marine. You're an LAV mechanic? Well now you're a machine gunner. You're a mail clerk? Here's a SMAW. Hell even I kept doing infantry training even though I was a Huey crew chief, I was considered to valuable to go outside the wire but if things went to shit I could.[/QUOTE] Ah, see this I didn't consider. I figure the Army has something in the pipes for if they REALLY need to start pulling guys into the trenches from other MOS's too, but it isn't as likely as it would be in the Marines due to the size of the force in question this is true.

Recruits have much more power than their leadership. It's insane. Let the professionals do what they need to to train the new generations of military personnel. Hajj doesn't care how you feel. They will kill you just as dead. I don't want some SJW watching my ass and always complaining. There is a time and a place. Initial training is not the time nor place.

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;48178764]They probably do it in army gear.[/QUOTE] If by army gear you mean green short shorts and a tight synthetic t shirt then yes.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48180877]If by army gear you mean green short shorts and a tight synthetic t shirt then yes.[/QUOTE] I did not realize my black PT short shorts are suddenly green.

[QUOTE=D-Roy;48180922]I did not realize my black PT short shorts are suddenly green.[/QUOTE] He was referring to Marine gear mistakenly by calling it Army gear. I know you nasty soldiers don't have the confidence to rock the green on green ;) [editline]11th July 2015[/editline] I mean I guess calling some Marine gear Army gear is accurate since we tend to get the Army leftovers.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48180945]He was referring to Marine gear mistakenly by calling it Army gear. I know you nasty soldiers don't have the confidence to rock the green on green ;) [editline]11th July 2015[/editline] I mean I guess calling some Marine gear Army gear is accurate since we tend to get the Army leftovers.[/QUOTE] The only place where I lack confidence is, as of this moment, the confidence to get in the shower because I got OC sprayed earlier today.

[QUOTE=D-Roy;48180989]The only place where I lack confidence is, as of this moment, the confidence to get in the shower because I got OC sprayed earlier today.[/QUOTE] I did some medical coverage for an OC spray event recently, you can't avoid the shower man. OC spray is the gift that keeps on giving until all of those crystals are washed away.

As someone going to Paris Island next month, what the actual fuck.

[QUOTE=Apache249;48178918]You've been watching too many movies. The majority of the jobs in all branches of the military, including the Marines, are not physically demanding combat positions.[/QUOTE] Then the fitness standards for those positions should be dropped regardless of gender.

[QUOTE=download;48182067]Then the fitness standards for those positions should be dropped regardless of gender.[/QUOTE] Which positions are you referring to?

Ehh.. I don't know, this seems like a lot of hearsay that is impossible to prove or disprove, but what is there is there's been an increase in performance and she's apparently the reason why. I mean, yeah she's probably abrasive and shit but come on, that's the USMC status quo. [QUOTE=download;48182067]Then the fitness standards for those positions should be dropped regardless of gender.[/QUOTE]Did you not read UncleJemmema's post? I mean it's a terrible idea to begin with to drop fitness standards in a country that already has obesity problems, but UncleJemmema's post outlines why your suggestion is double-terrible. [editline]11th July 2015[/editline] Wait, aren't you the guy who said basically that the military should be tiny and nobody should be a career soldier?

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48182343]Ehh.. I don't know, this seems like a lot of hearsay that is impossible to prove or disprove, but what is there is there's been an increase in performance and she's apparently the reason why. I mean, yeah she's probably abrasive and shit but come on, that's the USMC status quo. Did you not read UncleJemmema's post? I mean it's a terrible idea to begin with to drop fitness standards in a country that already has obesity problems, but UncleJemmema's post outlines why your suggestion is double-terrible. [/quote] I'm saying everyone doing the same job should be held to the same physical standards. If you're going to argue that women in non-combat positions don't need a high level of fitness then that standard should also be applied to men. [quote] Wait, aren't you the guy who said basically that the military should be tiny and nobody should be a career soldier?[/QUOTE] No. [editline]12th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Apache249;48182227]Which positions are you referring to?[/QUOTE] Gee, I don't know, maybe the positions referenced in the post I quoted?

In the FDF, women do actually have some standard reqs lower than men, but not in any places that matter really. And in the army your built to last. Me? I was a APC driver + mechanic, combat engineer and a mechanical sweeper (I drive minesweeping vehicles). It doesnt end at BCT and when you get your actual specialization. Hell they were BCTing my ass when I had 21 days left in service. Not that I hated it or anything, hell I even did so good that I was promoted to Korpraali (Private first class). When everyone can hold a rifle, everyone is useful. I believe Russia is sporting a similar "universal soldier" program ie. All soldier learn about alot of diffrent specialization.

This equality race in the military for riflemen and other infantry related jobs is fucking stupid if you can't meet the exact same standards as the other gender then you shouldn't be infantry, period No lowering standards, no nothing. Fuck this PR shit

[QUOTE=En-Guage;48182552]This equality race in the military for riflemen and other infantry related jobs is fucking stupid if you can't meet the exact same standards as the other gender then you shouldn't be infantry, period[/QUOTE] But my PR photos.

[QUOTE=download;48182394]I'm saying everyone doing the same job should be held to the same physical standards. If you're going to argue that women in non-combat positions don't need a high level of fitness then that standard should also be applied to men.[/QUOTE]Alright, I can get behind that. Normally I'd give you a little green checkmark to demonstrate my agreement but this will have to do.

[QUOTE=download;48182394]I'm saying everyone doing the same job should be held to the same physical standards. If you're going to argue that women in non-combat positions don't need a high level of fitness then that standard should also be applied to men. No. [editline]12th July 2015[/editline] Gee, I don't know, maybe the positions referenced in the post I quoted?[/QUOTE] You mean lowered, not dropped then, right? [editline]11th July 2015[/editline] for non-combat jobs I'm assuming [editline]11th July 2015[/editline] You could have clarified instead of being a sardonic ass, but thanks, great posting keep it up