Wow, well researched, well presented, and not intentionally offensive to the viewer. Wish that was a more common thing with this issue.
Good video!
This video is great.
Hits the nail on the head with this issue.
I don´t agree with the part that violence against women isn´t taken seriously. Really?
[QUOTE=MittRomney;44146305]I don´t agree with the part that violence against women isn´t taken seriously. Really?[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates[/url]
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;44146417][url]https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates[/url][/QUOTE]
I like how that fails to mention how some rapists serve 10 years-life sentences.
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;44146417][URL]https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates[/URL][/QUOTE]
And if you've made that chart for men it would start with 5 out of 100 being reported? The way we treat sexual violence is bullshit altogether not just for women.
Great vid and by the way she didn't say "violence against women", she said "sexual violence".
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;44146417][url]https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates[/url][/QUOTE]
I say something about violence against women, and you come up with rape?
Also they say that Sexual assault = Rape, which is not correct. Groping a girl may be sexual assault, but it isn´t rape. If you are gonna look at statistics, you need clear definitions. Also those references are hella old. 1999? A lot can change in 15 years.
It's good people actually learn what objectification means, my only issue is over how prominent it is. The stereotypical attractive wife in sitcoms may just show attractive women, but they're almost always the sensible one rather than a trophy wife and hardly an object.
Body image issues are complex though, women are the beautiful sex after all with men just trying to not look retarded. There's a lot of history there reaching back to tribal days, and courtship still generally has men approaching women where men have little but appearance to judge on. Speaking out against sexual harassment is a no-brainer, but there's a lot more in women focussing more on their appearance than just this.
I don't objectify women, yet I see them constantly using their bodies and body language to gain attention, and as a means to get what they want. So which is it that they each really want? From what I've seen most girls want to use their bodies, and love the fact that it's ok to dress that way on Halloween as they won't be judged for doing it. It's really not just men, and as for the media, they've always done what ever it is which provides the biggest cash revenue. As it stands, sex sells for both genders.
[editline]6th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Devodiere;44146566]Body image issues are complex though, women are the beautiful sex after all with men just trying to not look retarded. There's a lot of history there reaching back to tribal days, and courtship still generally has men approaching women where men have little but appearance to judge on. Speaking out against sexual harassment is a no-brainer, but there's a lot more in women focussing more on their appearance than just this.[/QUOTE]
Yes. And along with this, women go a great lengths to seclude and hide (even basic) information from those around. Where-as a man would often have nothing but title to go upon.
[QUOTE=MittRomney;44146471]I say something about violence against women, and you come up with rape?[/QUOTE]
whatever picky mcgee, here's one focused on domestic abuse instead (which funny enough also talks about rape, who knew those would be related?)
[url]http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet%28National%29.pdf[/url]
I am so sorry for liking women's' bodies.
Yeh, I totally agree and I actually already really like the content this channel produces, I'm not so keen though that the video concentrates entirely on women as being the objects and men the subjects, Because that's just not true. Men are sexualised and portrayed in unrealistic ways just as much as women are and yet no one seems to mention that in videos like this nearly as much, I feel like the whole issue of objectification should be treated as an issue for both genders, rather than segregating whats already a segregated enough topic. Its like having two sides trying to achieve the same goal, but never getting anywhere because each one blocks the others progress.
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;44146698]whatever picky mcgee, here's one focused on domestic abuse instead (which funny enough also talks about rape, who knew those would be related?)
[url]http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet%28National%29.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]
I look at the sources and see 1989, 1998, 2000, I see only one source thats fairly recent, and that is 2006. That is nearly a decade. Time changes.
[QUOTE=Mr cake fingers;44147173]Its like having two sides trying to achieve the same goal, but never getting anywhere because each one blocks the others progress.[/QUOTE]
Conspiracy nut in me tells me that this is the whole point of segregation, be it race or gender or whatever.
[QUOTE=Mr cake fingers;44147173]Yeh, I totally agree and I actually already really like the content this channel produces, I'm not so keen though that the video concentrates entirely on women as being the objects and men the subjects, Because that's just not true. Men are sexualised and portrayed in unrealistic ways just as much as women are and yet no one seems to mention that in videos like this nearly as much, I feel like the whole issue of objectification should be treated as an issue for both genders, rather than segregating whats already a segregated enough topic. Its like having two sides trying to achieve the same goal, but never getting anywhere because each one blocks the others progress.[/QUOTE]
Nah, it kinda is a different issue. Male sexuality and female sexuality are obviously very different and where women can develop eating disorders worrying over their appearance, men can become violent trying to be more macho.
Obviously treating people a bit better and not relying on sex sells would solve both, but the specifics of how to achieve that and what an ideal scenario without this crap looks like need to be considered individually.
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;44146417][URL]https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates[/URL][/QUOTE]
I find it odd how that graph implies every single accusation of rape is genuine, and the fact many don't lead to prosecutions or arrests is some horrific affront to the legal system.
If she's talking about sexual objectification, why is she wearing a shirt that clearly displays her cleavage?
Is that not being a hypocrite of what she is saying herself?
[QUOTE=Devodiere;44147515]Nah, it kinda is a different issue. Male sexuality and female sexuality are obviously very different and where women can develop eating disorders worrying over their appearance, men can become violent trying to be more macho.
Obviously treating people a bit better and not relying on sex sells would solve both, but the specifics of how to achieve that and what an ideal scenario without this crap looks like need to be considered individually.[/QUOTE]
His point is that the idea should be that it's bad to objectify people, all people. Not just one side. If the society has to change as a whole it would be easier if everyone was focusing on working out the problem and not on 2 sides fighting.
snip
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44148493]This video hardly presents any valid points and arguments. Those that it does present are one-sided and presented in a deceiving manner.[/QUOTE]
She's hot so it's okay
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44148493]This video hardly presents any valid points and arguments. Those that it does present are one-sided and presented in a deceiving manner.[/QUOTE]
Explain.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44148493]This video hardly presents any valid points and arguments. Those that it does present are one-sided and presented in a deceiving manner.[/QUOTE]
What? How so? This is going to be interesting if even I don't have a problem with the vid.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44148493]This video hardly presents any valid points and arguments. Those that it does present are one-sided and presented in a deceiving manner.[/QUOTE]
She's actually presenting a generally well-accepted idea in a manner that's refreshingly egalitarian and not as needlessly angry as it is all-too-often presented (see: mainstream internet feminist activism). THIS is exactly the kind of way this message should be delivered. It might not cover everything but it wasn't meant to. What exactly is invalid here?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44147101]I am so sorry for liking women's' bodies.[/QUOTE]
according to the video, there's nothing wrong with that so i don't see the point
snip
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]it only sells because of human sexuality.[/QUOTE]
Humans are sexual beings. I don't see a problem with selling sex since that's what people want.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44150425]Humans are sexual beings. I don't see a problem with selling sex since that's what people want.[/QUOTE]
Because sex has become more than 'just sex' for most sensible people anyway.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]Okay, I'll elaborate. I didn't want to write this out at first because of facepunch's habit of rating dumb and not actually discussing the topic, but I see there's an interest here.
The first thing she brings up is that women in sitcoms are portrayed as "something to have sex with". This is in a [I]comedy show[/I] and is a work of satire. There are women potrayed as objects of desire, there are women potrayed as delirious housewives, there are men portrayed as sex addicts, there are men potrayed as mindless office slaves. Sitcoms use stereotypical characters for the purpose of [I]poking fun at these stereotypes[/I]. It is not meant to be taken seriously, it's a situational comedy show, the point does not stand.[/QUOTE]
This is correct when the show is making fun of chasing after one night stands with girls and shows how stupid it is to treat women like that (ie something you just have to put your dick in). Sometimes it is portrayed like that, but often it makes you cool and awesome if you're successful, and if it shows only trying to do that, then it's just a normal, everyday thing that's completely neutral and natural.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]She follows this up by stating that science has discovered that both men and women see other women as a "mish-mash of sexual body parts". This is a baseless claim, as she doesn't refer to any actual scientific study. Honestly, this doesn't only smell of generalisation but I also find it quite ridiculous. I'd like to see the study itself.[/QUOTE]
I don't know this study so I won't reply to that.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]Next up, "objectification is women's magazines being littered with all the things that men don't like". This is far from an issue of sexual objectification. People generally like to be considered attractive and these magazines provide them a peek inside the opposite's sex's mind. I agree that the articles themselves are usually full of straight-up bullshit but [I]that's not a problem regarding sexual objectification.[/I] What is wrong with being more open about what people find attractive? Does it have to be a secret? Furthermore, this doesn't only affect women - men's magazines are full of articles such as "How can I build a butt that women will want to grab?", "The 10 Habits of Highly Unflabby People", "5 Off-Beat Sex Trends". This is all the same shit just worded in a different way.[/QUOTE]
I think those were just examples what is objectification as she was talking about objectification as a whole, not only about objectification of women. Can't speak for her but that's the intention I felt she had. The examples you gave, she could have added too. She was just explaining what the objectification is.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]
Regarding the commercials - I think it's the same deal as the sitcoms. Though cheap, it's still humor. She focuses on the way women's body parts are potrayed as objects, which they are, but you can't just leave out the other side of the coin. Look at the way men are potrayed - drooling sex-addicts with dicks for brains. Frankly, I'd find that even more offensive, as it attacks the actual personality of the actor. But it's fine, because it's [I]humor[/I]. [/QUOTE]
Again she's against objectification of everyone, not just objectification of women.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]
We can dig even deeper into this. Everything potrayed on a poster is potrayed as an object. Cologne, beer, jewellery - in all of those advertisments there are men and women, portrayed as objects. You can't tell if that shirtless person is succesful, you can't tell anything about his personality, in fact. Is her point that [I]using people in advertisments is bad[/I]? I think that's ludicrous, and sounds like a fabricated argument.[/QUOTE]
People are on a poster for 2 reasons. Either they want to make you associate product with something they are presenting like happiness or being successful, OR you have half naked people in order to bring your eyes to the commercial, in that case the body is only used as a eye magnet, through sexappeal. [URL="http://s27.postimg.org/yhv85kqbn/gucc.jpg"]Example1[/URL] [URL="http://s8.postimg.org/oeteck8jp/guc.jpg"]example2[/URL] I purposefully found a non objectifying ad with a woman and an objectifying ad with a guy, which by the way took me way longer than I expected.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]"Objectification is the idea that men and women can't be just friends because men couldn't ever see a woman as anything but sexual"
Huh, I don't think anyone actually believes this. Nothing but an object of sexual interest? I wouldn't be fine with that. Nothing but an object of [I]romantic [/I]interest? Nothing wrong with that. She uses a play on words which sound similar, and thus it slips by unnoticed.[/QUOTE]
I think the point was that there's a pretty common idea floating around men can't have a relationship with a woman which doesn't involve trying to be with her one way or another.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]
"Men are mostly sexual objects and women are mostly sexual subjects. That inequality is the reason why this picture ([URL="http://youtu.be/u_4dPB9MVS8?t=3m53s"]3:51[/URL]) looks fine while this picture ([URL="http://youtu.be/u_4dPB9MVS8?t=3m53s"]3:53[/URL]) looks kind of awkward." Not at all. That is not the reason by any means. The second picture looks awkward because it's a man in a feminine pose. Does [URL="https://ircimg.net/sexy-man-in-boxer-briefs.jpg"]this[/URL]look awkward? Nope. This argument simply does not support her point and it was poorly chosen.[/QUOTE]
I get what you're saying but walkin on all fours on kitchen furniture should look silly for both men and women really. And yeah, half naked men are in an ad of underwear most of the time, that's relevant. Half naked women are in ads from potato chips to car repair service. This is related to the point I've raised somewhere above.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;44150329]"We don't require that men look a particular way to be taken seriously. The cultural narrative looks at men as whole people." That's an unsupported claim. Furthermore, society requires all people, regardless of gender to look a certain way to be taken seriously. Would you take [URL="http://www.funnypica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Ugly-and-Crazy-Man.jpg"]this [/URL]man seriously?[/QUOTE]
I actually agree with this one.
selling sex is illegal in most parts of north america
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
