• Donald Trump either lied to Republicans or Broke the Law
    35 replies, posted
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/eFRacu.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Donald Trump committed perjury. Or he looked into the faces of the Republican faithful and knowingly lied. There is no third option. It has become an accepted reality of this presidential campaign that Trump spins a near-endless series of falsehoods. For months, the media has struggled with this unprecedented situation—a candidate who, unlike other politicians who stretch the truth, simply creates his own reality. Trumps regularly peddles “facts” that aren’t true, describes events that never happened or denies engaging in actions that everyone saw him do. He utters his falsehoods so fast that before reporters have the chance to correct one, he has tossed out five or six more. This time, it is different. Trump can’t skip past his perfidy here. There are two records—one, a previously undisclosed deposition of the Republican nominee testifying under oath, and the second a transcript/video of a Republican presidential debate. In them, Trump tells contradictory versions of the same story with the clashing accounts tailored to provide what he wanted people to believe when he was speaking. [. . .]* Trump had been boasting for weeks at his rallies that he knew the political system better than anyone, because he had essentially bought off politicians for decades by giving them campaign contributions when he wanted something. He also proclaimed that only he—as an outsider who had participated in such corruption of American democracy at a high level—could clean it up. During the September 2015 debate, one of Trump’s rivals, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, verified Trump’s claim, saying the billionaire had tried to buy him off with favors and contributions when he was Florida’s governor. "The one guy that had some special interests that I know of that tried to get me to change my views on something—that was generous and gave me money—was Donald Trump,” Bush said. “He wanted casino gambling in Florida." Trump interrupted Bush: [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] I didn’t— [B]Bush: [/B]Yes, you did. [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] Totally false. [B]Bush: [/B]You wanted it, and you didn’t get it, because I was opposed to— [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] I would have gotten it. [B]Bush:[/B] Casino gambling before— [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] I promise, I would have gotten it. [B]Bush:[/B] During and after. I’m not going to be bought by anybody. [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] I promise, if I wanted it, I would have gotten it. [B]Bush:[/B] No way. Believe me. [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] I know my people. [B]Bush:[/B] Not even possible. [U][B]Trump:[/B][/U] I know my people. If Trump was telling the truth that night, so be it. But if he was lying, what was his purpose? His “If I wanted it, I would have gotten it,” line may be a hint. Contrary to his many vague stories on the campaign trail about being a cash-doling political puppet master, this story has a name, a specific goal and ends in failure. If Bush was telling the truth, then Trump would have had to admit he lost a round and, as he assured the audience, that would not have happened. When he wants something, he gets it. [. . . ] The deposition was part of a lawsuit he’d filed against Richard Fields, whom Trump had hired to manage the expansion of his casino business into Florida. In the suit, Trump claimed that Fields had quit and taken all of the information he obtained while working for Trump to another company. Under oath, Trump said he did want to get into casino gambling in Florida but didn’t because he had been cheated by Fields. A lawyer asked Trump, “Did you yourself do anything to obtain any of the details with respect to the Florida gaming environment, what approvals were needed and so forth?” [B] [U]Trump:[/U] [/B]A little bit. [B]Lawyer: [/B]What did you do? [B][U]Trump:[/U] [/B]I actually spoke with Governor-elect Bush; I had a big fundraiser for Governor-elect Bush…and I think it was his most successful fundraiser, the most successful that he had had up until that point, that was in Trump Tower in New York on Fifth Avenue. [B]Lawyer: [/B]When was that? [B][U]Trump:[/U] [/B]Sometime prior to his election. [B]Lawyer: [/B]You knew that Governor Bush, Jeb Bush at that time, was opposed to expansion of gaming in Florida, didn't you? [B][U]Trump:[/U][/B] I thought that he could be convinced otherwise. [B]Lawyer: [/B]But you didn't change his mind about his anti-gaming stance, did you? [B][U]Trump:[/U][/B] Well, I never really had that much of an opportunity because Fields resigned, telling me you could never get what we wanted done, only to do it for another company. One of these stories is a lie—a detailed, self-serving fabrication. But unlike the mountain of other lies he has told, this time the character trait that leads to Trump’s mendacity is on full display: He makes things up when he doesn’t want to admit he lost. [. . .] Finally, the lie here matters because it shows how shameless Trump is and how reckless [he is]. He told this lie even though he knew he was standing next to a credible witness—Bush—who could contradict him, and he gambled that no one would discover his sworn testimony. [. . .] Trump’s penchant for this type of baldfaced lying could undermine American foreign policy—when he meets with a foreign official, will he try to deceive the world about what happened? That question already came into play in early September when Trump flew to Mexico to talk with that country’s president in a bizarre publicity stunt. He came out of the meeting and declared the two had never discussed his signature issue—that he would compel the Mexican government to pay for a wall along America’s southern border. Before an hour passed, a Mexican official declared that Trump’s statement was false, and that President Enrique Peña Nieto had told the Republican nominee that his country would never pony up the cash for the wall. Either Trump lied or Peña Nieto did. The government of Mexico—one of America’s most important trading partners and allies—knows whether a President Trump will be trustworthy or will lie out of convenience, on matters large or small. Shouldn’t the American public know the same before it votes in November? Trump must be called upon to answer the troubling questions raised by the episode regarding Bush and gambling in Florida: Is the Republican nominee a perjurer or just a liar? If he refuses to answer—just as he has refused to address almost every other question about his character and background—Trump supporters must carefully consider whether they want to vote for a man who at best has treated them like fools over the past year and at worst committed a crime.[/quote] Footnote: * - See source for remainder of article. Source: [URL="http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-jeb-bush-lie-florida-casino-gambling-502144"]Newseek[/URL]
What does this mean for him exactly? how big is this hole? and how much longer will people use the "He tells it like it is" excuse as if that somehow is something that 100% validates everything he does?
[QUOTE=J!NX;51098160]What does this mean for him exactly? how big is this hole? and how much longer will people use the "He tells it like it is" excuse as if that somehow is something that 100% validates everything he does?[/QUOTE] If you identify as a Trump supporter you're already willingly turning a blind eye to his rampant and obvious corruption so at least as far as his voter base goes this won't mean anything in the long run. Besides why worry about all the shady shit Trump does when you can focus on Clinton emails.
This election keeps getting better and better.
Someone should ask him about his (heavily documented) [URL="http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article32457009.html"]plans [/URL]for a [URL="http://abc30.com/politics/remembering-trumps-interest-in-a-fresno-project/1251092/"]Fresno, California golf course and housing development[/URL] and see if he doubles down.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51098213]If you identify as a Trump supporter you're already willingly turning a blind eye to his rampant and obvious corruption so at least as far as his voter base goes this won't mean anything in the long run. Besides why worry about all the shady shit Trump does when you can focus on Clinton emails.[/QUOTE] Now I don't support Trump (nor anyone else for that matter since I'm not american) but couldn't literally the same be said about hillary?
[QUOTE=-Iker-;51098277]Now I don't support Trump (nor anyone else for that matter since I'm not american) but couldn't literally the same be said about hillary?[/QUOTE] Agreed, the same could be said about Clinton, but the issue here is that the election is a choice of two turds who're trying to be named the shiniest. Most people wanted Bernie to become the Democrat candidate, and he would've won had he stood, but the problem was the mistrust from within the party leadership because he was not an active participant in intra-party activities and meetings. Unfortunately, as a result, Clinton became the Democrat candidate. Bernie cut his losses and made a statement saying that he would support the chosen incumbent, and do anything in his power to prevent Trump from attaining the Presidency. He told his supporters to vote for Clinton and to not waste their votes, and that he'd left a manifesto behind for the future workings of the democratic party before he left to become an independent in the Congress.
[QUOTE=-Iker-;51098277]Now I don't support Trump (nor anyone else for that matter since I'm not american) but couldn't literally the same be said about hillary?[/QUOTE] Hillary supporters accept Hillary lies and it pains them for the most part, Trump supporters refuse to admit he lies. So the difference is that Hillary supporters think of her as the lesser evil whilst Trump supporters think of him as a good solution to a problem.
Seems like a pretty shitty source though
[QUOTE=Rossy167;51098289]Hillary supporters accept Hillary lies and it pains them for the most part, Trump supporters refuse to admit he lies. So the difference is that Hillary supporters think of her as the lesser evil whilst Trump supporters think of him as a good solution to a problem.[/QUOTE] It seems to me like a lot of TRUE Hillary supporters aren't even aware of her shit. All they care about is ~woman~
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51098343]It seems to me like a lot of TRUE Hillary supporters aren't even aware of her shit. All they care about is ~woman~[/QUOTE] Yeah but true Hillary supporters are about as rare as unicorns.
[QUOTE=-Iker-;51098277]Now I don't support Trump (nor anyone else for that matter since I'm not american) but couldn't literally the same be said about hillary?[/QUOTE] Sure, but Clinton's corruption is often used as a reason why someone is voting Trump. Despite him being equally if not more corrupt as she is. The only difference is Trump is more open about what a piece of shit he is and for some reason some people respect him for that.
its pretty amazing that the argument everyone has to not vote for one or the other is "because the other is corrupt!" both sides are doing this fuck the two party system and fuck the US right now
I wonder how Pvt. Martin is gonna justify this. He'll be going for gold in the mental gymnastics category.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51098343]It seems to me like a lot of TRUE Hillary supporters aren't even aware of her shit. All they care about is ~woman~[/QUOTE] I'm very well aware of her shit, but she's running against someone who's even more unelectable than her
[QUOTE=TheLonelyDonu;51098664]I wonder how Pvt. Martin is gonna justify this. He'll be going for gold in the mental gymnastics category.[/QUOTE] I don't think he's left his hugbox in months. i hope someone put airholes in that thing
So he tried to get a casino in Florida and Bush called him on it, and then he lied? If I get that correctly, this seems to pale in comparison to other stories about this guy.
How is lying under oath treated in the States? Could it end up with a criminal conviction? How serious is this for the Trump campaign?
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51099099]How is lying under oath treated in the States? Could it end up with a criminal conviction? How serious is this for the Trump campaign?[/QUOTE] It's a requirement for running for president.
[QUOTE=OneFourth;51099083]So he tried to get a casino in Florida and Bush called him on it, and then he lied? If I get that correctly, this seems to pale in comparison to other stories about this guy.[/QUOTE] I agree. While it is remotely possible that Trump lied to a court on this occasion, in the grand scope of the campaign it really isn't much to go on. This article is very poorly sensationalized.
Has trump even taken any oaths? I mean, if he has and is therefore guilty of perjury, then the other candidates and every other person running for us president in the history of history is guilty of perjury as well. Fuck it, lock em all up.
[QUOTE=Mining Bill;51099075]I don't think he's left his hugbox in months. i hope someone put airholes in that thing[/QUOTE] Trump supporters live in a sphere of delusion
[QUOTE=J!NX;51098160]What does this mean for him exactly? how big is this hole? and how much longer will people use the "He tells it like it is" excuse as if that somehow is something that 100% validates everything he does?[/QUOTE] in reality? Absolutely nothing. Once you're a politician you're pretty much untouchable, and if you are you get a complete slap on the wrist. If anything ever comes of this, it will just be a couple grand in fines for Trump. Look at Clinton for example, if she's not off the campaign trail for her list of crimes then Trump isn't going anywhere either. This article is making some stretches too. From the first exchange, Bush was claiming that Trump came directly to him with bribes to get him to change his stance on Gambling in Florida, where as during the court script, he was talking about holding a fundraiser for Bush, not bribery. Those are 2 fairly different things. Sketchy, but different still.
[QUOTE=-Iker-;51098277]Now I don't support Trump (nor anyone else for that matter since I'm not american) but couldn't literally the same be said about hillary?[/QUOTE] hillary knows a thing or two about when to hold'em and when to fold'em, she was never going to get wrapped up in a scandal like her husband. if it werent for conservatove news outlets half the scandals would have been dead by now
Trump supporters don't care. They know he lies constantly, they just rationalize it away. They choose whichever version of reality best fits their needs, and say, [I]"that's the one he's honest about. All those other things he said are just twisted out of context."[/I] If provided with indisputable proof of the lie, they only shrug it off and revert to their original answer. [I]"The rhetoric he's catered for me is the real deal, though."[/I] This is pretty good as far as proof goes, yeah. Damning indeed. But it's also meaningless. As the article itself mentions, Trump lies so frequently and so blatantly that you barely have time to call him out on them. By the time you do, he's spat out five or six more and this lie is old news. It creates a desensitization to his lies among his supporters. Stepping on a nail hurts, but a man can lay on a bed of nails if he lays back and accepts them all. You can try telling him [I]"those are nails you're laying on,"[/I] but he knows. He's doing it willingly. It doesn't hurt him, it's just a bit uncomfortable.
[QUOTE=OneFourth;51099083]So he tried to get a casino in Florida and Bush called him on it, and then he lied? If I get that correctly, this seems to pale in comparison to other stories about this guy.[/QUOTE] He lied under oath, which is perjury. Perjury is a pretty serious crime, especially for aspiring political officials. Basically the only move for Trump, if he wants any chance at being elected, will be to admit that he lied to the entire Republican Party cover his shame of not getting what he wanted. Knowing him he's going to choose a third option and get away with it, while taking a serious hit in the polls.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51098471]Sure, but Clinton's corruption is often used as a reason why someone is voting Trump. Despite him being equally if not more corrupt as she is. The only difference is Trump is more open about what a piece of shit he is and for some reason some people respect him for that.[/QUOTE] At least Trump isn't the one getting people killed.
[QUOTE=Secrios;51099436]At least Trump isn't the one getting people killed.[/QUOTE] We're not keen on giving him the opportunity to rack up a body count.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51099305]Trump supporters don't care. They know he lies constantly, they just rationalize it away. They choose whichever version of reality best fits their needs, and say, [I]"that's the one he's honest about. All those other things he said are just twisted out of context."[/I] If provided with indisputable proof of the lie, they only shrug it off and revert to their original answer. [I]"The rhetoric he's catered for me is the real deal, though."[/I] This is pretty good as far as proof goes, yeah. Damning indeed. But it's also meaningless. As the article itself mentions, Trump lies so frequently and so blatantly that you barely have time to call him out on them. By the time you do, he's spat out five or six more and this lie is old news. It creates a desensitization to his lies among his supporters. Stepping on a nail hurts, but a man can lay on a bed of nails if he lays back and accepts them all. You can try telling him [I]"those are nails you're laying on,"[/I] but he knows. He's doing it willingly. It doesn't hurt him, it's just a bit uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] "rationalize" is too weak a term - for his supporters to rationalize the things he says would require him to first make a meaningful and self-consistent assertion. he might as well be speaking pure word salad for all it means, because he'll directly contradict himself about one sentence later. i'm not even sure he could pass the Turing test speaking like he does.
I think this is a pretty big deal, I mean he lied during the debates, the event that got people to like him in the first place. shows that he'll say anything to win votes
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