• Marine Discharged Without Honor for Criticizing Obama on Facebook
    69 replies, posted
Source: [url]http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/04/marine-discharged-criticizing-obama-facebook/51570/[/url] [quote] His fate's been in limbo for nearly three weeks, but on Wednesday, Sgt. Gary Stein was discharged from the Marines without honor for making fun of the president on Facebook. It seems like it took the corps a long time to decide to go along with an April 6 recommendation by its administrative board, which said Stein should go. But then, his case is quite sensitive. The ACLU backed Stein's First Amendment right to criticize whoever he wants, but in the end it was the fact that he violated the oath he swore when he joined the Marines that did Stein in. As Stars and Stripes pointed out in March, members of the military swear oaths to "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me." On Facebook, Stein wrote: "As an active duty Marine I say 'screw Obama' and I will not follow orders from him." That would appear to violate the oath. The Marines thought so, too. Stein also apparently superimposed a picture of President Barack Obama on a poster for the movie Jackass. As CBS pointed out earlier this month, "the military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief." And as the Associated Press pointed out on Wednesday, a federal judge had already blocked Stein's request to block the proceedings against him. "U.S. District Judge Marilyn Huff ruled then that the military has the right to respond to Stein's online comments in a case that has called into question the Pentagon's policies regarding social media and the limits regarding the speech of active duty military personnel." Now that he's being discharged "other than honorably," Stein will not be eligible for any of the benefits, such as health care and retirement, that military personnel usually take with them after they leave the service. [/quote] What the fuck... So long free speech I guess.
a good question is why the fuck is that in the oath to begin with
[QUOTE=faze;35714092]What the fuck... So long free speech I guess.[/QUOTE] Yes, because serving military personnel can decide on what orders to follow based on their freedom of choice. Entering military service is a contract with conditions. He broke the conditions of that contract. It doesn't make it right, but it's his own stupidity.
Wait did he just insult obama or didn't he actually follow orders? If he didn't follow orders it kinda makes sense.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;35714158]Yes, because serving military personnel can decide on what orders to follow based on their freedom of choice. Entering military service is a contract. He broke that contract. It doesn't make it right, but it's his own stupidity.[/QUOTE] Where in the contract does it forbid you to critique the president?
Surely Obama can make a jump on this matter himself?
Since this would technically count as insulting a superior officer, with Obama being Commander in Chief, this kind of makes sense since it's practically insubordination.
Makes sense considering that he's the commander in chief. Saying that you're not going to follow his orders is kind of a big deal if you're a soldier.
[QUOTE=faze;35714171]Where in the contract does it forbid you to critique the president?[/QUOTE] Considering the amount of Generals the US has fired from their roles because of criticizing the president, I'd say the small print. Besides, as the article states, they swear an oath. I'd love to see you join the Army and complain about your freedom of speech when you tell the Drill Sargent to suck a huge dick and not expect to be fired.
[QUOTE]On Facebook, Stein wrote:[B] "As an active duty Marine I say 'screw Obama' and I will not follow orders from him."[/B] That would appear to violate the oath. The Marines thought so, too.[/QUOTE] That's insubordination.
[QUOTE=faze;35714171]Where in the contract does it forbid you to critique the president?[/QUOTE] Well considering the President is in the chain of command...
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;35714197]Considering the amount of Generals the US has fired from their roles because of criticizing the president, I'd say the small print. Besides, as the article states, they swear an oath.[/QUOTE] Don't see that in the oath: [quote]I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. [/quote]
Sorry, but he criticized the leader of the U.S armed forces.It makes sense. It's a reglament.It's not suppost to be in the oath.
[QUOTE=faze;35714092]Source: [URL]http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/04/marine-discharged-criticizing-obama-facebook/51570/[/URL] What the fuck... So long free speech I guess.[/QUOTE] Free speech doesn't apply when you volunteer to the armed services and take an oath.
He wrote "As an active duty Marine I say 'screw Obama' and I will not follow orders from him.". You can't pick and choose who orders you wish to follow, as a serving soldier you must respect the chain of command.
[QUOTE=faze;35714171]Where in the contract does it forbid you to critique the president?[/QUOTE] [quote]members of the military swear oaths to "[b]obey the orders of the President of the United States[/b] and the orders of the officers appointed over me."[/quote] [quote]As an active duty Marine I say 'screw Obama' and [b]I will not follow orders from him[/b].[/quote] It's not critiquing. It's refusing to follow orders.
[QUOTE=noobcake;35714151]a good question is why the fuck is that in the oath to begin with[/QUOTE] Because the President is the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.
[QUOTE=faze;35714218]Don't see that in the oath:[/QUOTE] 'I will obey the orders of the President of the United States' and 'As an active duty Marine I say 'screw Obama' and I will not follow orders from him.' It's pretty clear cut, dude.
[QUOTE=faze;35714218]Don't see that in the oath:[/QUOTE] Do you see the part in the oath where he swore to do exactly the thing he said he won't do?
Yeah, you don't have free speech in the military, folks. Not to imply that I like it, but it's not exactly a new ordeal.
[QUOTE=The Vman;35714230]It's not critiquing. It's refusing to follow orders.[/QUOTE] What people say and do are two different things. Was he actually not following orders?
This is basically the same as going up to my CO and telling "fuck you I'm not following anything you say" my ass would be thrown out instantly. You can disagree with your superior's views or whatever but in the end they are the boss and you [B][I]will[/I][/B] respect and listen to them.
[QUOTE=faze;35714273]What people say and do are two different things. Was he actually not following orders?[/QUOTE] You can tell your drill sergeant he's an asshole to his face. he's still going to whoop your sorry ass up and down the yard, regardless of whether you 'meant it'
[QUOTE=faze;35714273]What people say and do are two different things. Was he actually not following orders?[/QUOTE] He clearly stated he will not follow orders from Obama. The oath does not say 'orders up until this moment when I give you them', it means always. Any dereliction of that doesn't make you a solider.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35714295]You can tell your drill sergeant he's an asshole to his face. he's still going to whoop your sorry ass up and down the yard, regardless of whether you 'meant it'[/QUOTE] Yeah but you won't get discharged like this dude did.
[QUOTE=faze;35714273]What people say and do are two different things. Was he actually not following orders?[/QUOTE] If he said the same thing about other superior officers, I'm sure something similar would happen.
[QUOTE=faze;35714218]Don't see that in the oath:[/QUOTE] "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me" That bit. Also probably something in the UCMJ
[QUOTE=faze;35714305]Yeah but you won't get discharged like this dude did.[/QUOTE] Oh yes you will You wise off to a superior and your ass is getting washed out. [I]Nobody[/I] questions his superior.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35714295]You can tell your drill sergeant he's an asshole to his face. he's still going to whoop your sorry ass up and down the yard, regardless of whether you 'meant it'[/QUOTE] And that is punishable under the UCMJ. Military is overmanned right now, you give anyone shit, they can afford to drop your ass. [editline]25th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=faze;35714305]Yeah but you won't get discharged like this dude did.[/QUOTE] Are you in the fucking military?
[QUOTE=faze;35714305]Yeah but you won't get discharged like this dude did.[/QUOTE] Not if you said it privately, or to your squad mates. But he said it publicly on Facebook. That's the same as shouting it around the street. I don't know the exact circumstances, but his superiors decided to make an example of him.
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