Inhuman for sure. It knows as soon as they start to trade razes whether it will win or not. That lack of hesitation makes it very strong. I'm assuming that it also knows the AOEs on it to a T letting it last hit and harass perfectly. Creep block was also crazy. Hard to believe it didn't have any input from outside.
This is actually Elon Musk's secret plan to win every Dota 2 competition to fund the Model Y
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;52564066]This is actually Elon Musk's secret plan to win every Dota 2 competition to fund the Model Y[/QUOTE]
Elon musk actually talked about this earlier on twitter
[media]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/896163163581825025[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/896166762361704450[/media]
Oh so you still think your creative jobs are safe from machines huh???
We need to deport them NOW before it is too late
It'll be interesting whe they move onto 5 vs 5. I wonder if the bots will adopt the same positions in the meta or come up with something completely alien.
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;52564167]It'll be interesting whe they move onto 5 vs 5. I wonder if the bots will adopt the same positions in the meta or come up with something completely alien.[/QUOTE]
we're gonna see 5 farming core lineup with perfect cs and farming patterns and at 25 min they just come out with 5 heroes at 30k net worth
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;52564167]It'll be interesting whe they move onto 5 vs 5. I wonder if the bots will adopt the same positions in the meta or come up with something completely alien.[/QUOTE]
If they actually manage to replicate the human meta, game balancing could become crazy. You could have an AI test the big meta-changing patch before they go live to fix any big oversights, and later the smaller adjustment patches could fix imbalances before the players even find out how to exploit them.
Who knows, if that works maybe the AI could even fine-tune patches itself.
[QUOTE=Davoc;52564184]we're gonna see 5 farming core lineup with perfect cs and farming patterns and at 25 min they just come out with 5 heroes at 30k net worth[/QUOTE]
And when they are 6 slotted they each buy a courier of their own to have a permanent 12 slots inventory, furiously swapping items as needed.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;52564225]If they actually manage to replicate the human meta, game balancing could become crazy. You could have an AI test the big meta-changing patch before they go live to fix any big oversights, and later the smaller adjustment patches could fix imbalances before the players even find out how to exploit them.
Who knows, if that works maybe the AI could even fine-tune patches itself.[/QUOTE]
if it's like alphaGo, then not only will it replicate the human meta but it will progress several stages beyond it
the most terrifying thing about things like this when ML starts working within a game - they just train it against itself, so at the end of the process not only is it the best player in the world, but it learns how to beat the best player in the world at that time
I hope they do 1v1 Invoker bot before the 5v5 stuff. I want to learn from this, I need to see what combos does the AI consider most viable.
:blaze: if only AI would take over the world faster!
I thought the whole point was that a bots ability to function shuts down when the enemy is invisible or undetected.
Is it limited so it doesn't have an apm advantage?
[QUOTE=laserpanda;52564884]Is it limited so it doesn't have an apm advantage?[/QUOTE]
No, of course not
[QUOTE=laserpanda;52564884]Is it limited so it doesn't have an apm advantage?[/QUOTE]
Apm doesn't really matter in dota compared to rts games like starcraft.
For example the average SK sc2 pro has an apm of at least 300.
Now lets take this game from around a year ago, [url=https://www.opendota.com/matches/2379136488/actions]DreamLeague season 5, NaVi vs Virtus.Pro.[/url] Dendi, who moves like a fucking crack fiend, only has an apm around 220. Nofear around 280 Puppey at around 160, etc. Only one being above 300 is Virtus' invoker, who probably spams buttons like some sc2 pros do to inflate apm.
[QUOTE=laserpanda;52564884]Is it limited so it doesn't have an apm advantage?[/QUOTE]
Raw apm isn't the problem, it's having zero reaction and time.
[QUOTE=Davoc;52564184]we're gonna see 5 farming core lineup with perfect cs and farming patterns and at 25 min they just come out with 5 heroes at 30k net worth[/QUOTE]
so the chinese teams then
This is seriously the first time watching Dota 2 gameplay and I have no idea what's going on, other than a bot doing better than a player.
Haven't watched or played dota 2 for a good two years now, This is immensely interesting to me, I can't wait to see the ai's give 5v5 a go. It'd be funny if they completely change the entire meta for the game by showing something completely unthought of.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;52564225]If they actually manage to replicate the human meta, game balancing could become crazy. You could have an AI test the big meta-changing patch before they go live to fix any big oversights, and later the smaller adjustment patches could fix imbalances before the players even find out how to exploit them.
Who knows, if that works maybe the AI could even fine-tune patches itself.[/QUOTE]
The thing I'm most interesting thing to me is an AI playing micro based heroes like Brood, Chen, Meepo. These are heroes that are extremely strong if played to their full potential but the micro play means a human player couldn't possibly reach the skill ceiling. Seeing an AI Chen micro a whole bunch of creeps to their fullest potential would be really cool.
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;52568614]The thing I'm most interesting thing to me is an AI playing micro based heroes like Brood, Chen, Meepo. These are heroes that are extremely strong if played to their full potential but the micro play means a human player couldn't possibly reach the skill ceiling. Seeing an AI Chen micro a whole bunch of creeps to their fullest potential would be really cool.[/QUOTE]
A bot playing Broodmother mid is going to be terrifying. It will contest all runes with spiderlings and scout out rotations, but also stack the neutral camps and clear them for like a 7 minute orchid or desolator. The orchid and bkb reaction time will be instant as well so you won't be able to jump it anymore. Placing sentries will do nothing because it can figure out the exact position and deward it. Even things like body blocking with a few spiderlings would become a huge issue.
I wonder what would have happened to the bot if Dendi had chosen another character?
The raze cancel mind games oh my fucking god. Insane to imagine it comes up with human strategies like creep block and animation cancelling just by playing against itself. I cannot wait to see this next year and see how much progress they have made. Been waiting for a Deep Blue-like challenger to come up in eSports like Starcraft and Dota.
There was a guy on the subreddit who came up with a really smart cheese strategy to break the bot by kiting creeps in a conga line through the jungle, so it has quite a long way to go before full team dota AI but it's certainly impressive none-the-less.
Imagine the oddworld strategies that could arise from a 5v5 AI Dota team! The next few years for strategy game AI will be so interesting.
MOBAs, eh? I'm surprised it didn't come to the conclusion that the only way to win is not to play. :v:
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;52570796]MOBAs, eh? I'm surprised it didn't come to the conclusion that the only way to win is not to play. :v:[/QUOTE]
Bot eventually evolves to just sit at spawn and instead hurl verbal abuse at the opposing team.
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;52570796]MOBAs, eh? I'm surprised it didn't come to the conclusion that the only way to win is not to play. :v:[/QUOTE]
I think one of the coder guys behind OpenAI said that at first the bot kept dying and then its next strategy was to simply AFK. Can't die, can't lose!
Until your tower gets demolished, that is. Then you lose a 1v1.
[QUOTE=Wii60;52564098]Elon musk actually talked about this earlier on twitter
Loading Tweet...
[URL]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/896163163581825025[/URL]
[/QUOTE]
If I'm not mistaken: hardly any of the pro players featured actually played the particular character in the competitive scene.. Top that with the fact that the particular DOTA hero-character they chose to 1v1 with is the most mechanically basic hero in the game, ie all of the challenge comes from knowing exact distances to cast your spells from, the exact time required to cast such spells, etc., it felt really contrived.
As a practice I like it, but to make the entire arena watch the most boring 1v1 matchup where the machine has 0 latency and has only a few variables to operate on felt completely contrived... I'll shut the fuck up when they do this with a hero-character that has more than one spell.
I was a bit sad that we didn't get a bot's viewpoint of the whole thing, that would've actually made it worthwhile to watch.
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;52570796]MOBAs, eh? I'm surprised it didn't come to the conclusion that the only way to win is not to play. :v:[/QUOTE]
How to win against the AI uprising:
Not participate in the war against it
I just don't find this all that amazing.
SF isn't even Dendi's best hero, and all it does is right clicks and fixed distance AoE moves. It's literaly all a bot in a 1v1 can do. Limiting the whole thing this way will obviously net the bot a win.
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