Russian Media Covering Up Putin's Complicity in MH17 Tragedy - Polidicks

[url]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/19/russian-media-cover-up-putin-mh17-tragedy?CMP=twt_gu[/url] [quote]The plane did not crash and it did not "collapse" – as was written by some of the Russian media – it was shot down from the ground. We in Russia know this – if not from our own news organizations, then from several video commentaries, including one in which a little boy says, "Look! A junta plane has been shot down! Well done, DPR!" (The DPR is the Russian-backed Donetsk People's Republic, and the "junta" is the legally elected government of Ukraine – the typical way for Russian propaganda to refer to the present government in Kiev.) This child does not know – and may never find out – that the downed aircraft had children like him on board. By this weekend, the international media will likely stop using the term "militia members" and nobody outside of Russia will call the Donetsk army representatives anything other than "terrorists". Here, though, Putin will continue his support for the people that the West will call terrorists. The DPR's anti-aircraft missiles – which everyone believes were used to shoot down the plane – were probably transferred from eastern Ukraine back to their Russia owners under cover of night, and records of their possession have already been erased from Strelkov’s page and widely denied by the separatists who were nonetheless seen using them. But in Putin's Russia, you can't believe your eyes. You have to believe what you are told.[/quote]

who's surprised?

The article says nothing about Putin being complicit, just that they are covering up it being accidentally shot down by pro-Russian separatists so I don't know why they titled it that way

Luckily Russia has never done anything to set a precedent for conspiracy and murder in the past. Absolutely never doing anything like shooting down the plane of the president of Poland and then immediately trying to pretend like Poland doesn't exist.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45448212]The article says nothing about Putin being complicit, just that they are covering up it being accidentally shot down by pro-Russian separatists so I don't know why they titled it that way[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Here, though, Putin will continue his support for the people that the West will call terrorists. The DPR's anti-aircraft missiles – which everyone believes were used to shoot down the plane – were probably transferred from eastern Ukraine back to their Russia owners under cover of night, and records of their possession have already been erased from Strelkov’s page and widely denied by the separatists who were nonetheless seen using them. But in Putin's Russia, you can't believe your eyes. You have to believe what you are told.[/QUOTE] He is complicit though, and they are covering it up. [QUOTE=Masterofstars;45448225]Luckily Russia has never done anything to set a precedent for conspiracy and murder in the past. Absolutely never doing anything like shooting down the plane of the president of Poland and then immediately trying to pretend like Poland doesn't exist.[/QUOTE] I've seen a Polish poster deny this, however, how big are the chances that a flight with ministers and the president, somewhat the enitre government of Poland, crash in Russia with no survivors? It really feels a lot more than a technical issue with the aircraft if you ask me.

This reads like something straight out of a Cold War newspaper. Holy shit.

Complicit in covering it up, and I guess depending on how you define it giving the weapons would constitute complicity. Just seems like a strong word, like his government ordered it

[QUOTE=Ghost656;45448249]I've seen a Polish poster deny this, however, how big are the chances that a flight with ministers and the president, somewhat the enitre government of Poland, crash in Russia with no survivors? It really feels a lot more than a technical issue with the aircraft if you ask me.[/QUOTE] Well then, I'm sure the fact that Russia cordoned off the crash site, and has to this day refused to turn in the black boxes and other bits vital to determining what went wrong, and which would in all likelihood implicate Russia as the culprit, a coincidence. Same goes for MH17. One of the black boxes, along with 38 bodies have inexplicably been removed from the crash site, and hauled away to fuck knows where. They damn themselves by trying to cover it up. Yet, cooperation would most probably damn them anyway. It's a tight spot for them - if they were clean in both cases, why scavenge the critical components in the first place? Why cover it up? Why deny access to all that stuff? I don't think it can get more obvious that not everything is as they claim.

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;45450279]Well then, I'm sure the fact that Russia cordoned off the crash site, and has to this day refused to turn in the black boxes and other bits vital to determining what went wrong, and which would in all likelihood implicate Russia as the culprit, a coincidence. Same goes for MH17. One of the black boxes, along with 38 bodies have inexplicably been removed from the crash site, and hauled away to fuck knows where. They damn themselves by trying to cover it up. Yet, cooperation would most probably damn them anyway. It's a tight spot for them - if they were clean in both cases, why scavenge the critical components in the first place? Why cover it up? Why deny access to all that stuff? I don't think it can get more obvious that not everything is as they claim.[/QUOTE] Funny how the EU did jack shit. I'm really hoping EU will actually man up and do something.

Yeah, most Russian news outlets have done a terrible job covering this and nobody I know is fooled, its kind of hard to cover this up when Russian social media quite clearly shows whats going on

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;45450279]Well then, I'm sure the fact that Russia cordoned off the crash site, and has to this day refused to turn in the black boxes and other bits vital to determining what went wrong[/QUOTE] Excuse me, what? The stenograms of one of the black boxes (made by polish Ministry of Interior and Administration) have been avaiable to public since June 2010, about two months after the catastrophe. The recordings of the other one, ATM-QAR, which contained flight data parameters are still classified to the public, but the data itself have been succesfully decrypted by polish government back in 2010, after which the device has been send back to russia for analysis there. The only vital data about the accident that the Russian side refuses to give us, is the data about the Smolensk airport itself, and the procedures that are/were employed there. While this indeed sugests that russian government have something to hide, to be fair given how bad the condition of the drome was, and how incompetently the air control behaved according to transcripts of conversations that were declassified back in 2011, no wonder they don't want the whole world to know how badly they fucked up. It is entierly possible that it was their incompetence and messiness that killed the 96 people onboard. In that sense, yes, they may be responsible for the whole accident. Also, the research made by the Military Institute Chemistry and Radiometry in Warsow found no traces of neither radiation, toxic gases nor explosives of any kind in samples taken from the plane. The assasination theory have been invesigated by polish military prosecution, but they ruled it out after no evidence has been found to back it up in any way.

Not sure which media was doing that, but our primary channel's news people outright said "the plane was shot down"

[QUOTE=Ghost656;45452979]Funny how the EU did jack shit. I'm really hoping EU will actually man up and do something.[/QUOTE] EU isn't a militarized organ, it's an economical and social one. To be able to project force on it's own, further deepening of ties and federalization would be necessary, and there's oh so much support for that right now.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45453976]EU isn't a militarized organ, it's an economical and social one. To be able to project force on it's own, further deepening of ties and federalization would be necessary, and there's oh so much support for that right now.[/QUOTE] But isn't that what NATO is for? Yeah it may include the US and Canada but doesn't every country who joins the EU become a member of NATO or maintains a policy of neutrality?

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45453976]EU isn't a militarized organ, it's an economical and social one. To be able to project force on it's own, further deepening of ties and federalization would be necessary, and there's oh so much support for that right now.[/QUOTE] I didn't say they should do anything military related? NATO does the military stuff.

These people are acting like Putin is on the field orchestrating every attack.

Okay so up until this year, i had nothing against our [i]beloved eastern neighbors[/i] other than the occasional idiots who come to Finland only to steal shit, but after all the crap that their Dear Leader has pulled off recently, i'm not to sure about that anymore... I mean, this is some fucking USSR-level shit right here.

So the soviet union never really fell, it just changed tactics, bastards.

[QUOTE=Masterofstars;45448225]Luckily Russia has never done anything to set a precedent for conspiracy and murder in the past. Absolutely never doing anything like shooting down the plane of the president of Poland and then immediately trying to pretend like Poland doesn't exist.[/QUOTE] They clearly didn't shoot down the polish plane. There is ABSOLUTELY no evidence of the russians shooting it down. It was foggy, they had been told not to land for because it was dangerous. Recording of the conversation in the cockpit make it clear that they came in too early, the nose hit a tree and the plane got shredded. Anyone who claims Russia did shoot it down is as good as any obscure conspiracy theorist, totally irrational, blind to fact and objectivity. Anyone who first claims that the Russians shot it down, then somehow uses it to "prove" Russia would shoot down this plane either knows nothing about either incident or they choose to ignore the facts to back their own blatent bias against the Russians.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;45453592]Excuse me, what? The stenograms of one of the black boxes (made by polish Ministry of Interior and Administration) have been avaiable to public since June 2010, about two months after the catastrophe. The recordings of the other one, ATM-QAR, which contained flight data parameters are still classified to the public, but the data itself have been succesfully decrypted by polish government back in 2010, after which the device has been send back to russia for analysis there. The only vital data about the accident that the Russian side refuses to give us, is the data about the Smolensk airport itself, and the procedures that are/were employed there. While this indeed sugests that russian government have something to hide, to be fair given how bad the condition of the drome was, and how incompetently the air control behaved according to transcripts of conversations that were declassified back in 2011, no wonder they don't want the whole world to know how badly they fucked up. It is entierly possible that it was their incompetence and messiness that killed the 96 people onboard. In that sense, yes, they may be responsible for the whole accident. Also, the research made by the Military Institute Chemistry and Radiometry in Warsow found no traces of neither radiation, toxic gases nor explosives of any kind in samples taken from the plane. The assasination theory have been invesigated by polish military prosecution, but they ruled it out after no evidence has been found to back it up in any way.[/QUOTE] Thank you for this - I haven't been meticulously keeping up with what has been going on. Shows how people not keeping up to date with something can still be swayed to hold an opinion. It's scary really :c

Honestly, what you wrote about the 38 corpses and the missing black boxes was so damn specific that I was scared for a moment that you may know something that I don't. You've always been a kidder, just-a-boy.

I'd like an explanation for this video though [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEx7HL4H5yk[/media] And the blackboxes were tampered with according to this. [url]http://www.iwp.edu/news_publications/detail/dr-kazimierz-nowaczyk-discusses-the-smolensk-plane-crash-four-years-later[/url]