When half a million drug users surrendered in Philippines, authorities sent some of them to Zumba - Polidicks

[b]When half a million drug users surrendered in the Philippines, authorities sent some of them to Zumba[/b] Via [url=http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-10-12/when-half-million-drug-users-surrendered-philippines-authorities-sent-some-them]Pri[/url] _________________________ [quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/DPNbxSw.jpg[/img] [i]Yolanda Ampoan is hugged by her children after learning of the death of her son Sandrex Ampo. Ampo was killed by unknown assailant on September 23, 2016 in Punta Sta Ana, Manila.[/i] - - - During his first week in office, Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte called on drug addicts to turn themselves in. Authorities were overwhelmed by the response. Over 600,000 admitted drug users flooded government offices and police stations to register their names. The government was unprepared. There are only 14 small public rehab centers in all of the Philippines, and a handful of private ones. Most were filled to capacity even before the half million drug users turned themselves in. So local officials have gotten creative — like when they sent meth addicts to compulsory Zumba classes. Duterte has gained international attention for a violent war on drugs that has left at least 3,400 people dead in the three months since he took office, killed either in police operations or by vigilantes. The people who surrendered hoped to be spared this punishment. The Duterte administration holds up the number of dead as a success. But 100 days after the start of his presidency, the program intended to rehabilitate addicts is showing the operational limits of his drug war. Barangay 197, a district of Pasay City in greater Manila, is a typical poor neighborhood. It’s a tight-knit community, where old women lean out of their windows, children scamper around unsupervised and pet roosters crow in homemade pens. Barangays are the smallest unit of government in the Philippines. They became responsible for the rehabilitation of addicts who surrendered. In Barangay 197, the local authorities decided hard work was the solution. “So far, we have a project for the surrenderees to work in the canteens of our district,” said councilman Jaime Abasola. Drug addicts were assigned to work in the little makeshift canteens near the Barangay Hall to earn a small salary washing plates and hauling pots of food. “We give them a chance to have a new life,” Abasola said, “so we can reduce illegal drug use.” Treating addiction is more complicated than keeping a drug user busy. Abasola understands that. When I asked him if the canteen jobs work to address addiction, he said what’s really needed is a step-by-step program. But the government provided Abasola with zero funding, and very little guidance on how to deal with methamphetamine abuse.[/quote] Zumba or death.

Well that doesn't sound too bad. If Duterte reduced the shit talking rhetoric he might be a decent president.

[QUOTE=Occlusion;51201602]Well that doesn't sound too bad. If Duterte reduced the shit talking rhetoric he might be a decent president.[/QUOTE] excuse me are we reading the same article

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51201603]excuse me are we reading the same article[/QUOTE] How is this bad? They're doing the best they can, with what they have.

[QUOTE=Occlusion;51201602]Well that doesn't sound too bad. If Duterte reduced the shit talking rhetoric he might be a decent president.[/QUOTE] Duterte's an immature, reactionary infant - it's not "shit-talking rhetoric" when it's part of his overly-macho, aggressive, violent personality. He might make a good drill sergeant, but he's unfit to handle international diplomacy or to handle domestic drug policy without condoning the total abolition of due process [i]for the death penalty[/i]. This is a great article, though - I'm glad to see that [i]anything[/i] is being done to even attempt to rehabilitate people suffering from drug addiction instead of just offing them. Abasola seems like a smarter guy than Duterte, knowing that kitchen work and exercise isn't going to help many people with addiction, [i]especially with [B]zero[/B] government funding[/i] from Duterte and the higher-ups. People who do meth and heroin and other highly-addictive drugs are usually [I]completely[/I] aware that they're slowly killing themselves, so I really have to wonder how harsh Duterte is going to be on the people who don't view the threat of state-sanctioned death as a good enough motivator to quit. Opiate and meth withdrawal is [i]hell[/i]. There will be plenty of [I]very[/I] sick people who would risk instant execution at the hands of Duterte's death squads to stop feeling like they're [I]literally[/I] about to die from withdrawal. Also incredibly dangerous to demand complete cessation of drug use without any kind of weaning off or replacement drug therapy, like methadone. It's absolutely possible to drop dead from heroin/meth withdrawal alone. The fact that the "surrendees" are going into hiding makes me really worry that Duterte's going to double down and enact mass killings of all drug users instead of trying to push the rehabilitation programs that people like Abasola are trying. The death toll from withdrawals, state-sanctioned killings, and the inevitable violent crime spike from drug shortages is going to devastate the Philippines, and possibly make their drug problem even worse. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201615]How is this bad? They're doing the best they can, with what they have.[/QUOTE] No, a [i]single[/i] councilman in a [i]single[/i] district is doing the best he can with what very little he has. And it's very respectable, even though hard work and Zumba won't stop fatal withdrawal symptoms. Abasola is pushing back [I]against[/I] Duterte's policy of "fuck it purge 'em," understanding that these people need [I]help[/I] to get clean and fix their lives. This article is incredibly critical of Duterte and is showing that people are living in genuine terror of being [I]executed by masked men in front of their own children.[/I] I have a fuckton of respect for what Abasola is trying to do, because he very clearly cares about his community (and the people in it, even the drug addicts), and wants to see it restored, not ravaged.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201615]How is this bad? They're doing the best they can, with what they have.[/QUOTE] Let me point out all the crazy shit I've read. [quote]Duterte has gained international attention for a violent war on drugs that has left [B]at least 3,400 people dead[/B] in the three months since he took office, killed either in police operations or by vigilantes. The people who surrendered hoped to be spared this punishment.[/quote] [quote][B]The Duterte administration holds up the number of dead as a success.[/B] But 100 days after the start of his presidency, the program intended to rehabilitate addicts is showing the operational limits of his drug war.[/quote] [quote][B]But the government provided Abasola with zero funding, and very little guidance on how to deal with methamphetamine abuse[/B].[/quote] [quote]But about a week ago, three masked men on a motorcycle stormed into Boja’s house in the middle of the night, pulled him out of bed and shot him in front of his two young children. “They should have just arrested him,” Abasola said. “They could have left him to fester in prison for a few years. This was a person’s life. I feel pity for the family, especially the children.” A man who’s standing near the house declined to give his name, because he fears the men who killed Boja will come after him. He does tell me that he’s afraid to go to sleep. Just the sound of a passing motorcycle makes him tense up. The day before two other surenderees left the neighborhood after they got text messages telling them they would be next. There’s little Abasola can do to protect them. “Our barangay captain went around and told them to stay away from drugs, because there are people here informing [the police].” There’s a lot of suspicion here that the police are involved in the killings.[/quote] [quote][B]President Duterte recently said that the government currently doesn’t have the funds to rehabilitate drug addicts. He would rather have them killed “in the meantime.”[/B][/quote] Listen. I get it's a third world country. I get that the Philippines is a shithole and they want this drug problem gone. I'm not asking for 0 deaths, I'm not asking for everyone to get extensive rehab for free. But what they're doing isn't the best they can. Far from it. It's the easier route; it's the least expensive route; It's the fastest route. Taking shortcuts like these can lead to innocent lives being lost (spoiler alert: it has), especially when you're actively promoting the unlawful execution of drug users who are ironically scared to go to rehab because they fear for their lives. Yeah no fucking shit executing drug users will prevent them from doing drugs, but it's like completely segregating whites from blacks to solve racial tension.

Lies. Despite what the western media keeps repeating, Duterte hasn't authorized any extra-judicial killings. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] There's a massive cartel war going on and all victims of it are pinned on him.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51201653]Let me point out all the crazy shit I've read. Listen. I get it's a third world country. I get that the Philippines is a shithole and they want this drug problem gone. I'm not asking for 0 deaths, I'm not asking for everyone to get extensive rehab for free. But what they're doing isn't the best they can. Far from it. It's the easier route; it's the least expensive route; It's the fastest route. Taking shortcuts like these can lead to innocent lives being lost (spoiler alert: it has), especially when you're actively promoting the unlawful execution of drug users who are ironically scared to go to rehab because they fear for their lives. Yeah no fucking shit executing drug users will prevent them from doing drugs, but it's like completely segregating whites from blacks to solve racial tension.[/QUOTE] The thing is, executing drug users [i]won't even prevent them from doing drugs[/i]. It's a strong, strong deterrent, but addiction and withdrawal hijack reasonable decision-making. People suffering from meth withdrawal aren't going to think "but the death squads might kill me" when they feel like their bloodstream's been injected with sriracha, their heads are pounding with severe migraines, and they become so depressed and anxious that they'd rather die than suffer a second longer. All it'll do is drive down statistics on drug use. And government-sanctioned murder of drug users doesn't add to the homicide statistic or bring up violent crime at all, because it's not a crime to murder drug users anymore, so it looks real good. But the demand for drugs will continue to exist and more people will die than [i]before[/i] the abandonment of the human right to due process. The higher risk in creating, dealing, and selling drugs will significantly inflate prices, meaning desperate addicts will be more likely to turn to violent crime to fund their addiction. And if they get caught, they die anyways. Prices go up, risk goes up, and desperate people have a much stronger incentive to steal and mug and burgle to fund their increasingly-expensive addiction. So violent crime and property crime goes [I]up[/I] while drug use decreases. All due to the suspension of due process of law. Could've publicly pleaded for international assistance. Could've surrendered the South China Sea claims to China in exchange for drug treatment assistance. But that's not masculine and macho and strong - and Duterte is a strong guy, so [I]clearly[/I] the only option is suspending human rights. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201684]Lies. Despite what the western media keeps repeating, Duterte hasn't authorized any extra-judicial killings. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] There's a massive cartel war going on and all victims of it are pinned on him.[/QUOTE] "Hitler massacred three million Jews. Now, there is three million drug addicts. [B]I'd be happy to slaughter them.[/B]" - [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/30/asia/duterte-hitler-comparison/"]CNN[/URL], less than a month ago "[B]Forget the laws on human rights.[/B] If I make it to the presidential palace, I will do just what I did as mayor. [B]You drug pushers, hold-up men and do-nothings, you better go out. Because I'd kill you.[/B] I'll dump all of you into Manila Bay, and fatten all the fish there." - [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36251094"]BBC[/URL], before elected. "I will issue 1,000 pardons a day. [B]Pardon given to Rodrigo Duterte for the crime of multiple murder[/B], signed Rodrigo Duterte." - [URL="http://time.com/4310651/duterte-philippines-murder-pardon-himself/"]TIME[/URL], before elected. ...sorry, what were you saying? Could you repeat it? He's pledged to pardon 1,000 people a day for multiple murder. If that's not condoning extrajudicial killings, what [i]is[/i]? I don't care if he hasn't done it yet - he said he would, and that's causing people to [i]organize into masked motorcycle gangs[/i] to track down and murder drug addicts, according to [i]your own article[/i]. Not even dealers - just addicts.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201684]Lies. Despite what the western media keeps repeating, Duterte hasn't authorized any extra-judicial killings. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] There's a massive cartel war going on and all victims of it are pinned on him.[/QUOTE] Enlighten us please.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201684]There's a massive cartel war going on and all victims of it are pinned on him.[/QUOTE] This is what I was thinking. Surely when you factor in overdoses/gang related deaths the figure would have been pretty similar either way? Though he is a massive asshat and keeps saying and doing shit nobody can agree with.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;51201631] It's absolutely possible to drop dead from heroin/meth withdrawal alone. [/QUOTE] I completely agree with everything you said, however this isn't correct. Withdrawal fucking sucks, but it won't kill you. Alcohol and Benzodiazapine withdrawals will kill you, however.

[QUOTE=Jonzky;51201715]This is what I was thinking. Surely when you factor in overdoses/gang related deaths the figure would have been pretty similar either way? Though he is a massive asshat and keeps saying and doing shit nobody can agree with.[/QUOTE] No. He's only making things worse, is it not painfully obvious?

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51201653] Listen. I get it's a third world country. [/QUOTE] Philippines isn't a 3rd world country though.

[QUOTE=LSK;51201710]Enlighten us please.[/QUOTE] No doubt he'll say "well Duterte hasn't actually issued pardons for any of the extrajudicial killings, so the media is lying," ignoring that Duterte's language has very obviously encouraged extrajudicial killings. Because they're happening. Fair point to make - but then yesterday [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/13/asia/philippines-inquiry-extrajudicial-killings/"]CNN[/URL] reported that the Philippines Senate Committee scrapped investigations of extrajudicial killings entirely after throwing out an "unreliable" witness testimony. And they [I]refused to have any further discussions of extrajudicial killings[/I] after a written report to be released on Monday. Clearly it's just Western media bias, though - not repeated promotion of extrajudicial killings through violent rhetoric and then the systematic refusal to even [i]investigate[/i] extrajudicial killings that involve [i]literal children being killed[/i]. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=The Aussie;51201720]I completely agree with everything you said, however this isn't correct. Withdrawal fucking sucks, but it won't kill you. Alcohol and Benzodiazapine withdrawals will kill you, however.[/QUOTE] You're correct - my mistake, meth and heroin withdrawal are very rarely fatal by themselves, but the symptoms are [i]hellish[/i] just reading some personal accounts. I also ignored the very high risk for relapse overdose - if you make a large portion of the population surrender and pledge to quit drugs, and have their tolerance decrease long enough before they almost inevitably relapse, it's [I]very[/I] possible that they could return to their normal, pre-withdrawal dose and accidentally overdose. The number of deaths from Duterte's war goes waaaay beyond people killed by police and extrajudicial kill squads. Overdoses, violent crime, greater cartel aggression, and so on will kill so many more than before his war, and it's not likely to succeed anyways.

[QUOTE=LSK;51201710]Enlighten us please.[/QUOTE] From a previous thread [hd]https://youtu.be/r2PFbhFMAmw[/hd] It's all a smear campaign against him. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] Not sure why the western media is hell-bent on demonizing Duterte. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Quit posting this stupid video. Argue your points using legitimate sources, not ridiculous computer-generated conspiracy videos from YouTube" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201774]From a previous thread [hd]https://youtu.be/r2PFbhFMAmw[/hd] It's all a smear campaign against him. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] Not sure why the western media is hell-bent on demonizing Duterte.[/QUOTE] 1.) Why would people be lying 2.) That video looks like absolute bullshit, and the examples they source aren't proof of ANYTHING. 3.) The claims are that he is encouraging the general public to execute users, NOT police officers.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201774]From a previous thread It's all a smear campaign against him. Not sure why the western media is hell-bent on demonizing Duterte.[/QUOTE] The description of your video: "A VERY COMPREHENSIVE EXPLANATION ON PDUTERTE'S WAR AGAINST DRUG...I HOPE THIS WILL CLEAR THE MINDS OF THOSE POISONED BY CHR (commission on human rights) AND SEN DELIMA... (chairwoman of the CHR)" Did you really post a video voiced by microsoft sam claiming its a human rights org conspiracy and take yourself seriously?

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201774]From a previous thread [hd]https://youtu.be/r2PFbhFMAmw[/hd] It's all a smear campaign against him. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] Not sure why the western media is hell-bent on demonizing Duterte.[/QUOTE] Are you for reals citing a YouTube video to counter people with actual sources?

Tainted sources, you mean. But yeah, it's better to demonize and discredit him, instead of looking at the facts. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] I'd rather watch interview snippets and hear it from the man himself.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201808]Tainted sources, you mean. But yeah, it's better to demonize and discredit him, instead of looking at the facts. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] I'd rather watch interview snippets and hear it from the man himself.[/QUOTE] people are literally citing the mans interviews in this thread? Do you want him to come to your house and whisper it softly in your ear or something??

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201808]Tainted sources, you mean. But yeah, it's better to demonize and discredit him, instead of looking at the facts. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] I'd rather watch interview snippets and hear it from the man himself.[/QUOTE] Still waiting on you to show us these facts. Or has the Human rights comission covered them all up?

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201684]Lies. Despite what the western media keeps repeating, Duterte hasn't authorized any extra-judicial killings. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] There's a massive cartel war going on and all victims of it are pinned on him.[/QUOTE] Yup, because he absolutely didn't compare himself to hitler and practically endorse the murder of 3 million jews, and lets ignore the fact he's said himself ON LIVE TELEVISION that he's PROUD of the number of dead so far. But its okay, don't worry. It must be really hard to see the facts when you're balls deep choking on Duterte's throbbing 'druggie beater'. EDIT: I'm sure the drug using population of the Phillipines can make it through their rehabilitation... WITH THE POWER OF INTERPRETIVE DANCE! [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201684]Lies. Despite what the western media keeps repeating, [b]Duterte hasn't authorized any extra-judicial killings.[/b] [/QUOTE] :what:

So, because Duterte said that he recognizes the importance of due process, he hasn't condoned extrajudicial killings? I think we're using different definitions of "condone" here - you're taking it to mean (explicitly) "approved or sanctioned," I'm using it to say "allowing morally wrong behavior to continue." Both are correct definitions. Has Duterte openly sanctioned extrajudicial killings? Definitely arguable. Has he allowed them to continue? Yes, undeniably - to the point that his administration is [i]outright refusing to investigate extrajudicial killings[/i] as I linked to in an above post. You've missed my point, though. Duterte's language - explicitly saying that he will kill "do-nothings" and drug pushers - [I]legitimizes[/I] violence against drug users. The literal highest authority figure in the country has repeatedly and consistently dehumanized drug addicts, blamed them for all of society's ills, and has called for their deaths as a way to fix society. That's incredibly irresponsible of the leader of a nation. Even if he isn't directly involved in the deaths, his rhetoric has legitimized violence against drug users. As a comparison, a common example of how to define guilty parties during an event in which human rights are violated (like mass killings and genocide) is the RTLMC radio station during the Rwandan Genocide. A radio host repeatedly called for Hutus to hunt down and "chop down" the Tutsi minority like trees, dehumanizing them repeatedly. Despite [I]never personally killing a single person[/I], he was fucking slammed in international court for essentially promoting mass slaughter through media. Duterte is comparable - even if he isn't involved in any of these extrajudicial killings, he's legitimizing them and he's [i]consistently[/i] calling for the death of drug users. If someone takes him up on that call, even without any direct orders, Duterte is undeniably partially responsible for inciting that person's actions - making him a guilty party in an extrajudicial murder.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201684]Lies. Despite what the western media keeps repeating, Duterte hasn't authorized any extra-judicial killings.[/QUOTE] Funny that you say that now after defending extra-judicial killings in multiple other Duterte threads. Now that's backpedaling if I ever saw it.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201615]How is this bad? They're doing the best they can, with what they have.[/QUOTE] sugar pills would work better than just arbitrarily foecing people to do arbitrary activities

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51201774]From a previous thread [hd]https://youtu.be/r2PFbhFMAmw[/hd] It's all a smear campaign against him. [editline]14th October 2016[/editline] Not sure why the western media is hell-bent on demonizing Duterte. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Quit posting this stupid video. Argue your points using legitimate sources, not ridiculous computer-generated conspiracy videos from YouTube" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] @ the mod who banned him. What legitimate sources? Do you actually think bullshit coming from phillipine media (which where international media gets their headlines from) are legitimate? Do you even know who controlls this media outlets? As far as i can tell none of the phillipine media outlets can be called legitimate. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not the RC" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Zekkei;51202354]@ the mod who banned him. What legitimate sources? Do you actually think bullshit coming from phillipine media (which where international media gets their headlines from) are legitimate? Do you even know who controlls this media outlets? As far as i can tell none of the phillipine media outlets can be called legitimate.[/QUOTE] Do you have any pertinent information about what's been going on in the Philippines? Taking your flagdog as the truth that is

It blows my mind that people on FP support this man child.

I honestly don't get why a lot of the people who support him hate on the media so much for reporting on the things he says, yet try to cite random people online as valid sources. It's mostly shit like: "hurr durr the media is being paid by the liberal party". Can't people just admit that it's mostly his fault for being so uncouth? I mean I understand distrust of the media, but when you start using conspiracy nut tier videos and (based on what I usually see on social media) hilariously biased bloggers and facebook pages as valid sources, it just gets silly. [editline]when[/editline] lol I just watched the video posted above and the point was literally just "hurr durr the liberal party controls the media!" Why am I not surprised :excited: