Man Killed in Grenade and Gun Attack in Manchester, UK - Polidicks

[quote] [url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j1MDUfO8EwH1LaMBNzmvN2Hb-5DA?docId=N0412061344745562891A]Source 1[/url] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19233714]Source 2[/url] [img]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/media/ALeqM5jD4ogDYN_onlnjuIbx_epHkFsP1Q?docId=N0423961344799005393A&size=l[/img][tab]David Short, left, was killed in Manchester on Friday and his son Mark was killed in the same city in May[/tab] Police investigating the murder of a man who was killed in a gun and grenade attack have released CCTV footage of two men who can be seen hurling an explosive at a house. David Short's body was found when police responded to reports of gunfire at an address in Folkestone Road East, Clayton, Manchester, at around 10.30am on Friday. A grenade had also exploded at the address. Mr Short, 46, died from multiple gunshot wounds and a blast injury. Nine minutes later police received reports that shots had been fired at a second property, in Luke Road, Droylsden, where detectives said there was also a grenade blast. Nobody was injured in the second incident but police obtained CCTV footage from that attack. Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan said: "Over the past three days, an intensive police operation has been under way to identify those involved in these violent attacks, which have left one man dead. Armed officers have also been patrolling in the Clayton and Droylsden areas. Today, we have issued CCTV footage which shows two men outside the house on Luke Road as the grenade is thrown. "People will no doubt be concerned when they see this footage, which shows weapons normally reserved for warfare being used in a residential street in Manchester." He added: "The CCTV shows just what these men are capable of and, whilst we do not believe these attacks were random, clearly we should be thankful that there was no one passing by at the time they took place, as even more people could have been seriously injured or killed." Greater Manchester Police have also named a second man they would like to speak to in connection with two attacks on Friday as 33-year-old Anthony Wilkinson from the Beswick area of Manchester. On Friday, police named 29-year-old Dale Cregan as a man they wanted to question following the two attacks earlier that day. Cregan, who has one eye, is also wanted in connection with the murder of Mark Short, David's son, at the Cotton Tree Pub on May 25, 2012. Mr Shewan said: "We have now named two men that we want to speak to in connection with Friday's attacks and are urging any members of the public that have seen them since Friday morning, or who know where they are now, to contact us immediately. Please do not try and approach these men, but call the police on 999."[/quote] Crazy stuff, apparently they were real grenades too, not just media exaggerated improvised explosives.

Wow, holy shit. Why would you do this? What fucking cowards.

Woah, what the fuck? That's really saddening, especially considering that many wouldn't expect to die such a way here in the UK.

Where do you even get grenades from?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37214864]Where do you even get grenades from?[/QUOTE] Firearms are not available legally in the UK so probably from the same weapon dealer

Firearms are available in the UK, just certain types are restricted. The article doesnt mention if the firearm used was illegally obtained or if it was held under license.

[QUOTE=Kondor58;37214887]Firearms are not available legally in the UK so probably from the same weapon dealer[/QUOTE] Grenades aren't, at any rate. Heaviest things you can legally own are shotguns and .308 rifles.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;37214700]Wow, holy shit. Why would you do this? What fucking cowards.[/QUOTE] erm whoever did this obviously had a lot of bad character traits but cowardice isn't one of them throwing grenades around in broad daylight is pretty ballsy

[QUOTE=Kondor58;37214887]Firearms are not available legally in the UK so probably from the same weapon dealer[/QUOTE] It would help if you actually knew what you were talking about. Firearms are available legally, they're just insanely heavily regulated. Applying for a shotgun license requires you to get a weapon safe and have a legitimate reason (e.g. protecting livestock for farmers, or registered at a shooting range for recreational activity for a while) and then a full check along with references, but it's perfectly doable if you want one. It's a bit harder, but you can also apply for a firearms license, which allows for very certain rifles (I think the law specifies ".22 rimfire" or under or something) and muzzleloading pistols, too. Of course, they're only allowed to be used on a range or in a field for farmers stopping threats to livestock, but saying that they're not available legally is flat out wrong. The firearm used is pretty likely to have been illegally obtained, anyway imo.

Shotgun regulations aren't really that strict tbh, you can give a 14 year old a shotgun as a "gift" under certain licenses.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;37214978]It would help if you actually knew what you were talking about. Firearms are available legally, they're just insanely heavily regulated. Applying for a shotgun license requires you to get a weapon safe and have a legitimate reason (e.g. protecting livestock for farmers, or registered at a shooting range for recreational activity for a while) and then a full check along with references, but it's perfectly doable if you want one. It's a bit harder, but you can also apply for a firearms license, which allows for very certain rifles (I think the law specifies ".22 rimfire" or under or something) and muzzleloading pistols, too. Of course, they're only allowed to be used on a range or in a field for farmers stopping threats to livestock, but saying that they're not available legally is flat out wrong. The firearm used is pretty likely to have been illegally obtained, anyway imo.[/QUOTE] Exterminators are also allowed shotguns for rodent killing

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37214971]erm whoever did this obviously had a lot of bad character traits but cowardice isn't one of them throwing grenades around in broad daylight is pretty ballsy[/QUOTE] Throwing an explosive at/to hurt someone who isn't expecting it nor able to defend themselves from it, isn't ballsy at all.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37214864]Where do you even get grenades from?[/QUOTE] [sp]The Black Market[/sp]

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37214971]erm whoever did this obviously had a lot of bad character traits but cowardice isn't one of them throwing grenades around in broad daylight is pretty ballsy[/QUOTE] You forget Facepunch's standard is nothing less but flintstocks at the dawn.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37214864]Where do you even get grenades from?[/QUOTE] huge blackmarket in the uk

We need gun shops to protect our homes in the uk now.

What the fuck? [editline]13th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SilverKnight;37215574]We need gun shops to protect our homes in the uk now.[/QUOTE] Our gun laws IMO are good and fine, can't be surprised that every once in a while some cunt has to do something like this. Shocking and awful, and only 15 minutes away from my home.

My dad bought two hand grenades in the ghetto of Chicago in the 70s, his dad found them and beat his ass, took him out to the woods because he didn't believe it was real. He pulled the pin and threw it and it exploded, we have the other one in my garage but it was disabled.

ban Manchester [editline]13th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ryz0;37215462]huge blackmarket in the uk[/QUOTE] we got the IRA to thank for that.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216019]This is why strict gun laws are worthless, if someone wants a gun, or explosives, they're going to be available regardless of the laws, just more expensive. Someone insane enough to even think of attacking people with a grenade or gun isn't going to give a shit about the price or legality of it.[/QUOTE] The guns laws over here really aren't worthless, how often is it you hear about a shooting? I know in manchester and some parts of london there's a lot but outside of those major cities its basically non-existent.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216019]This is why strict gun laws are worthless, if someone wants a gun, or explosives, they're going to be available regardless of the laws, just more expensive. Someone insane enough to even think of attacking people with a grenade or gun isn't going to give a shit about the price or legality of it.[/QUOTE] You're totally right that no amount of strict gun law is going to completely remove the black market, but the stricter the laws, the harder it is to smuggle in guns and the harder it is to get away with reselling legally purchased guns on the black market, hence less black market guns and higher prices on those that there are. Serious criminals might be able to afford illegal guns, but it mostly keeps them out of the hands of minor criminals.

Manchester is one of the most culturally vibrant cities in Europe. A real shame that it's also the scene of much knife crime.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216232]If they were actually working there should barely be any shootings, if at all, and people wouldn't even be able to obtain fucking hand grenades in the first place. Banning weapons isn't going to magically fix your society's problems.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but banning weapons severely reduces the amount of weapons produced for civilian use, the less weapons made, the less weapons find their way into criminal hands. That is why most firearm crime in the UK are the use of toys, bb guns and replicas. And those which are real firearms are either terribad old throwbacks from the IRA, or are modded legally made weapons, which for all intents and purposes are not efficient killing machines you can shoot up a school / college / cinema with. Like sawn-off shotguns.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216232]If they were actually working there should barely be any shootings, if at all, and people wouldn't even be able to obtain fucking hand grenades in the first place. Banning weapons isn't going to magically fix your society's problems.[/QUOTE] Illegalisation of things isn't 100% effective? Wow really? Seriously though I'd rather have the current situation of just the relatively small number of gang members and serious criminals in Britain possesing firearms (along with people who legally use them as part of their job, ect.) than every other man and his dog. I'd feel pretty nervous just walking through town on my own if that was the case

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216232]If they were actually working there should barely be any shootings[/QUOTE] Maybe if guns were banned full stop, but thankfully that isn't the case. We have a much lower rate of firearm homicide than the US, and a substantially lower rate of homicide overall. We do in fact have a higher robbery rate than the US, but despite that we have like 4.83 armed robberies per 100,000 people per year, compared to 41.67 in the US. I'd say that speaks for itself.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216232]If they were actually working there should barely be any shootings, if at all, and people wouldn't even be able to obtain fucking hand grenades in the first place. Banning weapons isn't going to magically fix your society's problems.[/QUOTE] They sure fix a hell of a lot of them though. Have you seen gun-related deaths for the USA vs UK? (Taking into account population)

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216399]If people are so desperate to commit crimes that they're using toys and BB guns you've got a lot of stuff to fix, stuff that has nothing to do with weapons, huge societal and social issues, at least in Manchester.[/QUOTE] Yeah dude, criminals will find weapons weather you want them too or not.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216399]If people are so desperate to commit crimes that they're using toys and BB guns you've got a lot of stuff to fix, stuff that has nothing to do with weapons, huge societal and social issues, at least in Manchester.[/QUOTE] Being held at gun point by a BB gun is much better than being held up by a real firearm in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216399]If people are so desperate to commit crimes that they're using toys and BB guns you've got a lot of stuff to fix, stuff that has nothing to do with weapons, huge societal and social issues, at least in Manchester.[/QUOTE] Surely the fact that criminals are desperate enough for weapons that they're resorting to something like a BB gun is evidence that our gun control is working?

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37216399]If people are so desperate to commit crimes that they're using toys and BB guns you've got a lot of stuff to fix, stuff that has nothing to do with weapons, huge societal and social issues, at least in Manchester.[/QUOTE] You're saying instead of restricting firearm sale and ownership we should just get rid of crime all together? Good idea!