Britain and France introduce no-fly zone resolution, vote expected in next few days - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12754519[/url] [list][*]Britain and France have presented a draft Libyan no-fly zone resolution to the UN Security Council. [*]There is still international debate on the plan, but with loyalist troops taking back territory and closing in on the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, there is little time for discussion. [*]The Security Council will meet tomorrow morning to discuss the resolution, but a vote is not expected "for some days".[/list] [release][b]Britain and France are tabling a draft United Nations resolution which would impose a no-fly zone on Libya, the BBC's political editor says.[/b] Nick Robinson said there may not be a vote on the resolution for some days but it was a "gutsy move". Britain and France are spearheading moves to prevent further air attacks on rebels by forces loyal to Col Gaddafi. It had been thought they would not table a resolution until they had international backing. The Arab League has backed the idea but a meeting of G8 foreign ministers in Paris earlier failed to do so. Germany and Russia were said to oppose the British and French plans. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said the Arab League had not "formalised" its decision to back a no-fly zone on Saturday, adding that it had stated in the same declaration that it was "categorically opposed to any foreign intervention, particularly military intervention, in Libyan affairs". [b]'Force the pace'[/b] Talks have been held in recent days between British representatives at the UN and their American, German and Lebanese counterparts. Nick Robinson said he understood that the US had not yet agreed to the plan - but Britain and France were tabling it anyway, to "force the pace". He said the resolution would also propose a ban on Libyan commercial aircraft landing in other countries to stop them being used to carry arms and mercenaries, a call for tougher monitoring to enforce the UN arms embargo and an asset freeze and travel ban designed to put pressure on members of Col Muammar Gaddafi's regime. British diplomats say the draft resolution covering a no-fly zone has now been introduced at the UN Security Council. The UK's Mission to the UN has said [url=http://twitter.com/UKUN_NewYork]on its Twitter page[/url] that Security Council members have the draft resolution and will meet again on Wednesday morning. UK Prime Minister David Cameron said last week that a no-fly zone would have to be "necessary, legal and win broad support" but added Europe must be "ready to act" if the situation in Libya required it. Rebel leaders in Libya have appealed for international help in limiting Col Gaddafi's resources as his forces maintain their onslaught on rebel positions in the east of Libya.[/release]

I hate America, they stick their no- oh wait. Also Britain and France doing military actions together = prelude to world war.

This better not turn into one of those things we try to enforce and end up in a war where we enter the country and remove the leader, and then what? We all of sudden realise we've been there for 10 years and achieved very little.

Took their time.

[QUOTE=Mikedestruct;28624054]I hate America, they stick their no- oh wait. Also Britain and France doing military actions together = prelude to world war.[/QUOTE] Does Libya even have any allies? How could this start a world war?

A bit too late for that huh.

No fly zone. The Libyans have shown us that they want to deal with their own problems at the moment. Putting a no fly zone effect would neutralize Qaddafi's power, and assist the resistance.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28624213]Does Libya even have any allies? How could this start a world war?[/QUOTE] I think they're allies with Venezuela

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28624320]I think they're allies with Venezuela[/QUOTE] Fear the combined power of Libya and Venezuela vs the entire world.

[QUOTE=Coffee;28624148]Took their time.[/QUOTE] They were waiting until they felt they had full international support, but now they've decided they have no other option but to move forward immediately. Today the G8 discussed and failed to agree on it. It would have been foolish to just throw it up for a vote straight away, with veto-empowered nations still holding out. We can only hope that Russia (if they decide to oppose it - they've said they want to look at the resolution in detail before making a statement) and China just vote against it instead of vetoing it.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28624320]I think they're allies with Venezuela[/QUOTE] Venezuela is buddies with Russia and Iran, though, who both support the rebels. They'll probably fall into line with us. As far as the situation goes, I'm opposed to military intervention of all sorts, but I think this is a just exception given the circumstances and the fact that they've asked for aid.

[QUOTE=smurfy;28624438]They were waiting until they felt they had full international support, but now they've decided they have no other option but to move forward immediately. Today the G8 discussed and failed to agree on it. It would have been foolish to just throw it up for a vote straight away, with veto-empowered nations still holding out. We can only hope that Russia (if they decide to oppose it - they've said they want to look at the resolution in detail before making a statement) and China just vote against it instead of vetoing it.[/QUOTE] The whole veto thing annoys me, I know nations have the veto power for a reason but I just don't like the idea. For example a country like China can veto every resolution just to piss people off (and I believe they have in the past). Hopefully if this does get vetoed the UK and France just say fuck the UN (again) and do what they think is right. [editline]15th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Detective P;28624469]Venezuela is buddies with Russia and Iran, though, who both support the rebels. They'll probably fall into line with us. As far as the situation goes, I'm opposed to military intervention of all sorts, but I think this is a just exception given the circumstances and the fact [B]that they've asked for aid.[/B][/QUOTE] This is a key fact IMO, the rebels have explicitly asked for a NFZ to be implemented.

Go for it. Bomb the unrelenting shit out of Gadaffi.

[QUOTE=Jsm;28624484]The whole veto thing annoys me, I know nations have the veto power for a reason but I just don't like the idea. For example a country like China can veto every resolution just to piss people off (and I believe they have in the past). Hopefully if this does get vetoed the UK and France just say fuck the UN (again) and do what they think is right.[/QUOTE] I support reform of the whole Security Council because I don't think France and maybe the UK should have a seat these days, and Germany probably should. But now France and the UK did this, and Germany opposes it. :psyduck:

Better hope Gaddafi's forces don't employ anti-PGM measures like the Serbs did, though in the desert there's not much in the way of cover and I wouldn't count on them being able to use [url=http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/deserted/deserted.htm][b]Soviet-style counters[/b][/url] to precision munitions.

[QUOTE=Gubbinz96;28624588]Go for it. Bomb the unrelenting shit out of Gadaffi.[/QUOTE] Oh no you don't want to kill Gaddafi, you want to arrest him for violating human rights, then get every last penny from him and then give it to the Libyan people to help rebuild their country. Then put him in Prison for the rest of his life.

[QUOTE=Coffee;28624693]Oh no you don't want to kill Gaddafi, you want to arrest him for violating human rights, then get every last penny from him and then give it to the Libyan people to help rebuild their country. Then put him in Prison for the rest of his life.[/QUOTE] And (somewhat more importantly) let him rot in a cell for the rest of his life.

[QUOTE=Coffee;28624693]Oh no you don't want to kill Gaddafi, you want to arrest him for violating human rights, then get every last penny from him and then give it to the Libyan people to help rebuild their country. Then put him in Prison for the rest of his life.[/QUOTE] When I say 'Bomb the unrelenting shit out of Gadaffi' mean all his tanks and air force collectively. I think things would just be a shit load easier if he was just killed off and so we won't have to tolerate his cancerous existence.

[QUOTE=Mikedestruct;28624054]I hate America, they stick their no- oh wait. Also Britain and France doing military actions together = prelude to world war.[/QUOTE] NATO vs. Libya...I wonder who would win that one.

Fuck yes, Britain and France are Bro's once more. Entente Cordiale all the way [editline]15th March 2011[/editline] Oh god what if France invaded singlehandedly, Every French joke ever, [B]dead[/B]

Britain? Doing something proactive? I must be dreaming.

To me Libya and the United States and Canada each year and the year of the study was to measure the amount of the compound of formula I wherein R is a hydrogen atom or a methyl group at the room temperature and then the other one is a little bit colder than the air temperature is below the threshold of the Libyan Royal Army.

America needs to sit this one out, let's not have another Iraq, shall we?

There will be no UN imposed no fly zone. Russia or China will almost certainly veto it, there's not much of a question about that. I think there's a bigger chance that NATO imposes a no fly zone if the Arab League backs it.

A no-fly zone is a pretty fucking dangerous thing to do - I support them doing it, but they better be god damn careful and not bitch if one of their planes get accidentally shot down by rebels.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;28625946]A no-fly zone is a pretty fucking dangerous thing to do - I support them doing it, but they better be god damn careful and not bitch if one of their planes get accidentally shot down by rebels.[/QUOTE] This is where you have to have faith in modern counter measures against old Russian AA stuff, or have faith in the ability of the rebels to tell the difference between Libyan aircraft and those of other countries, but that might be hard. Or the rebels might just not attack any aircraft and leave it to the people enforcing the NFZ.

If there is a no fly zone is in effect the rebels will have no reason to shoot planes, The NATO Airforces are more than capable of shooting the fuck out of anything that is 10 meters of the ground.

[QUOTE=Jsm;28625989]This is where you have to have faith in modern counter measures against old Russian AA stuff, or have faith in the ability of the rebels to tell the difference between Libyan aircraft and those of other countries, but that might be hard. Or the rebels might just not attack any aircraft and leave it to the people enforcing the NFZ.[/QUOTE] With limited communications, little/no training in target recognition, and no command structure to speak of - there WILL be friendly fire. Letting every rebel know there is a no-fly zone is impossible.

Are you fucking kidding me "a full invasion" is winning?

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;28626212]Are you fucking kidding me "a full invasion" is winning?[/QUOTE] It proves just how dumb the Facepunch userbase can be.