David Cameron opposes UKIP taking part in election debates - Polidicks

[url]http://www.facepunch.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=396[/url] [quote=BBC News][B]David Cameron has dismissed calls for UKIP leader Nigel Farage to be allowed to take part in the leaders' debates at the next general election, due in 2015.[/B] The PM told The House magazine only parties "that are going to form the government" should be included. Mr Farage once accused Mr Cameron of being "weak" and suggested he was not "grown up and sensible" enough. But the PM has previously described the eurosceptic party as containing "loonies and closet racists". Mr Cameron said in an interview: "Obviously, we have to decide on this nearer the time, but the TV debates should be about, you know, the parties that are going to form the government, in my view." Some recent polls have placed UKIP, which wants the UK to leave the EU, in third place ahead of the Liberal Democrats. [B]'Scared'[/B] Mr Farage said: "If UKIP's share of the opinion polls were to continue as they are now, to exclude us from the debates when the Lib Dems were included last time would make British politics look as outdated as the closed shop and embarrassingly out of touch. "If he wants to restrict it to those parties who are likely to form the next government, he'd better not be booking studio time himself with confidence." The first ever televised general election debates took place in 2010, with the format agreed between the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats. The Liberal Democrats enjoyed a surge in popularity following the first debate. In December last year Mr Cameron said that, while he enjoyed the debates, he felt they "took all the life" out of the 2010 campaign. He suggested the three main parties "could learn from last time" and stage the 2015 debates "in a slightly different way". Labour accused the PM of trying to "ditch the TV debates simply because he is too scared to defend his record". A Lib Dem spokesman said the TV debates had helped to connect people to the democratic process and "realistically" they were likely to feature ahead of the next general election.[/quote]

While I can't speak for those across the pond, isn't this a violation of free speech and the basic inclusion of everyone in democratic politics? I know that free speech as a protection has its limits in the UK, but this seems to just be not including a group simply because they disagree. Though this is also Mr. Cameron's opinion and I don't know if he is the sole deciding party on who is included.

They're a political party with seats in parliament, they have a right to be there, no matter how extremist they are.

While I think UKIP has a democratical right to be represented at debates, N Farage is a very immature and patronising debater; I'd not look forward to see him in a debate.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;39262553]They're a political party with seats in parliament, they have a right to be there, no matter how extremist they are.[/QUOTE] Well, then they'll be needing about 10 more chairs, considering that if you total up the number of parties in both the House of Commons and House of Lords that are not the Conservatives, Labour, or the Liberal Democrats, you've got about that many: [quote]Democratic Unionist Party (North Ireland) Ulster Unionist Party (North Ireland) Sinn Fein (North Ireland) Social Democratic and Labour Party (North Ireland) Alliance Party (North Ireland) Scottish National Party (Scotland) Respect Party (England & Wales) Green Party (England & Wales) Plaid Cymru (Wales) UK Independence Party (National)[/quote] Might as well invite the BNP while we're at it, they've got one MEP after all.

[QUOTE=Reviized;39262272]While I can't speak for those across the pond, isn't this a violation of free speech and the basic inclusion of everyone in democratic politics? I know that free speech as a protection has its limits in the UK, but this seems to just be not including a group simply because they disagree. Though this is also Mr. Cameron's opinion and I don't know if he is the sole deciding party on who is included.[/QUOTE] The UK is practically an autocracy when it comes to the government; most of our politicians seem to think that, if they're elected, they can do no wrong and so do whatever the hell they want, no matter the amount of backlash from the people. I expect this is probably because the British tend to moan in private rather than write up a petition or anything like that. But I dunno, if there's enough people in Parliament that think that Farage should be allowed in, they might be able to persuade him. The Prime Minister doesn't have much more power politically than the rest of the MPs, it's the other stuff he does that makes him so important.

It would be good to have all the parties in the debate. There's probably a party for everyone, I mean I'm beginning to like the sound of the Respect Party.

UKIP are hitting a maximum of 18% and a minimum of 10% on the polls, more than the Liberal Democrats and they have the second largest share of seats in the EU Parliament, more than both Labour and the Liberal Democrats. British Politics is becoming more and more about the EU recently so they very much deserve to be at the debates and David Cameron's comment about only parties who have a chance of forming a government in 2015 being able to come to the debate is ridiculous, he should count the Torys and LibDems out if that's his view. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=kebab52;39264674]It would be good to have all the parties in the debate. There's probably a party for everyone, I mean I'm beginning to like the sound of the Respect Party.[/QUOTE] I just looked on their website and they sell T-shirts about Stalingrad and have a link sending you to a website with T-shirts from all the famous communist leaders what the hell is going on. [url]http://www.philosophyfootball.com/view_item.php?pid=646[/url] [url]http://www.respectparty.org/2012/09/stalingrad-1942-hour-of-courage-had.html[/url] It seems they are also supported by the "Socialist Unity Network" and "Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain". Wat.

David Cameron is only pissed off because UKIP will take away conservative votes. Oops, maybe you shouldn't have forced through the No on AV. UKIP is a terrible party, but their opinion polls are higher than the Liberal Democrats. Doesn't make a huge amount of sense to exclude the 3rd highest polling party.

[QUOTE=Megafan;39263517]Well, then they'll be needing about 10 more chairs, considering that if you total up the number of parties in both the House of Commons and House of Lords that are not the Conservatives, Labour, or the Liberal Democrats, you've got about that many: Might as well invite the BNP while we're at it, they've got one MEP after all.[/QUOTE] Yes, they should all be represented. This is a democratic process after all.

[QUOTE=Scrappa;39264689]UKIP are hitting a maximum of 18% and a minimum of 10% on the polls, more than the Liberal Democrats and they have the second largest share of seats in the EU Parliament, more than both Labour and the Liberal Democrats. British Politics is becoming more and more about the EU recently so they very much deserve to be at the debates and David Cameron's comment about only parties who have a chance of forming a government in 2015 being able to come to the debate is ridiculous, he should count the Torys and LibDems out if that's his view. [b]Edit:[/b] I just looked on their website and they sell T-shirts about Stalingrad and have a link sending you to a website with T-shirts from all the famous communist leaders what the hell is going on. [url]http://www.philosophyfootball.com/view_item.php?pid=646[/url] [url]http://www.respectparty.org/2012/09/stalingrad-1942-hour-of-courage-had.html[/url] It seems they are also supported by the "Socialist Unity Network" and "Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain". Wat.[/QUOTE] They have a good anti-war stance though.

[QUOTE=Vasili;39265190]Yes, they should all be represented. This is a democratic process after all.[/QUOTE] And I don't disagree with the sentiment, it's just not very practical.

If it helps split the Tory vote then I'm fine with this. They'll never win so it won't do any real harm.

If you lived in the UK, you would understand UKIP is the only way to save Britain from an economic collapse.

[QUOTE=Megafan;39265224]And I don't disagree with the sentiment, it's just not very practical.[/QUOTE] How so?

[QUOTE=Vasili;39265358]How so?[/QUOTE] A debate with 10+ people just doesn't work well. Chances are it would just end up as a shouting match. The other parties should be represented better than they are at moment but having them all debate at once isn't a good idea.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;39262553]They're a political party with seats in parliament, they have a right to be there, no matter how [B]extremist [/B]they are.[/QUOTE] I assume you mean in general, because UKIP is no BNP. Some of their proposals actually make a lot of sense even if they may appear a little too right wing at first.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;39265380]A debate with 10+ people just doesn't work well. Chances are it would just end up as a shouting match. The other parties should be represented better than they are at moment but having them all debate at once isn't a good idea.[/QUOTE] The American Primary debates start out with around that many people and they do fine.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;39262553]They're a political party with seats in parliament[/QUOTE] No they're not

[QUOTE=smurfy;39265746]No they're not[/QUOTE] They have seats in the house of lords IIRC.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;39266176]They have seats in the house of lords IIRC.[/QUOTE] For which every seat they own (all 3 of them) are cause someone defected. Plus house of lords isn't voted in.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;39266176]They have seats in the house of lords IIRC.[/QUOTE] They don't count.

[QUOTE=Secrios;39265298]If you lived in the UK, you would understand UKIP is the only way to save Britain from an economic collapse.[/QUOTE] no

[QUOTE=Memobot;39265462]I assume you mean in general, because UKIP is no BNP. Some of their proposals actually make a lot of sense even if they may appear a little too right wing at first.[/QUOTE] The same can be said of the BNP. As you should have learned by now, it's the people, not the policies, that you need to look out for.

Cameron doesn't like this. The Spoiler Effect would be a painful blow for the Tory Party, especially with this whole EU thing. [QUOTE=Reviized;39262272]While I can't speak for those across the pond, isn't this a violation of free speech and the basic inclusion of everyone in democratic politics? I know that free speech as a protection has its limits in the UK, but this seems to just be not including a group simply because they disagree. Though this is also Mr. Cameron's opinion and I don't know if he is the sole deciding party on who is included.[/QUOTE] There's only two candidates who debate in your side of the pond. How is that different to ours where only three "big-church" parties debate.

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39267386]no[/QUOTE] Elaborate. The Tories didn't live up to their promise.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;39263175]While I think UKIP has a democratical right to be represented at debates, N Farage is a very immature and patronising debater; I'd not look forward to see him in a debate.[/QUOTE] I'm very much looking forward to it, just so I can laugh at his awful awful arguments. [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Secrios;39282415]Elaborate. The Tories didn't live up to their promise.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean we need the homophobic, racist, libertarian party. I'd much rather just see Labour come back, even if Ed isn't a real socialist or as charismatic as Blair.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;39282431]I'd much rather just see Labour come back, [B]even if Ed isn't a real socialist[/B] or as charismatic as Blair.[/QUOTE] Ugh. The last thing I want is for Labour is to be a working class party again and to return to the words of the Holy Gospel according to Saint Marx.

[QUOTE=redhaven;39282480]Ugh. The last thing I want is for Labour is to be a working class party again and to return to the words of the Holy Gospel according to Saint Marx.[/QUOTE] Yeah man who cares about the people who actually need government support, clearly we need to focus more on helping the poor misunderstood upper class who need more tax breaks otherwise they wont be able to afford another countryside escape :(

wait, explain to me why the first Televised election debates were only in 2010