[url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20827842.800-solar-power-could-crash-germanys-grid.html]Source[/url]
[quote]HARNESSING the sun's energy could save the planet from climate change, an approach that Germany has readily adopted. Unfortunately, this enthusiasm for solar panels could overload the country's ageing electricity grid.
Solar power is intermittent and can arrive in huge surges when the sun comes out. These most often happen near midday rather than when demand for power is high, such as in the evenings. A small surge can be accommodated by switching off conventional power station generators, to keep the overall supply to the grid the same. But if the solar power input is too large it will exceed demand even with all the generators switched off. Stephan Köhler, head of Germany's energy agency, DENA, warned in an interview with the Berliner Zeitung on 17 October that at current rates of installation, solar capacity will soon reach those levels, and could trigger blackouts.
Subsidies have encouraged German citizens and businesses to install solar panels and sell surplus electricity to the grid at a premium. Uptake has been so rapid that solar capacity could reach 30 gigawatts, equal to the country's weekend power consumption, by the end of next year. "We need to cap installation of new panels," a spokesperson for DENA told New Scientist.
However, the German Solar Industry Federation rejects DENA's concerns, claiming that extra solar energy takes the pressure off high-voltage power lines because it tends to be generated close to where it is used. The federation adds that the grid only needs to be strengthened in some rural areas where solar supply can exceed demand.
Germany's problems highlight the perils of moving to renewables without adequate preparation. "You lose flexibility on the supply side, so you need to gain some on the demand side," says Tim Green of Imperial College London, perhaps by encouraging people to charge their electric cars when the sun shines.
The best long-term solution is to install region-wide grids, says Tim Nuthall of the European Climate Foundation in Brussels, Belgium. "In Europe, you need a grid that balances the sun in the south with the wind in the north."[/quote]
[img]http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/mg20827842.800/mg20827842.800-1_300.jpg[/img]
[quote] Uptake has been so rapid that solar capacity could reach 30 gigawatts, equal to the country's weekend power consumption, by the end of next year.[/quote]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5168294/docbrown.jpg[/img]
Watt.
I'm no expert, but wouldn't it be better to develop technology to accommodate these surges rather then capping the number of solar panels in the country?
[QUOTE=Gordy H.;25806311]I'm no expert, but wouldn't it be better to develop technology to accommodate these surges rather then capping the number of solar panels in the country?[/QUOTE]
capping them is cheaper; we're in a recession
[QUOTE=elitehakor v2;25806248][img_thumb]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5168294/docbrown.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
[b][i]GREAT SCOTT[/b][/i]
a
Get some bigass batteries and store it for evening use.
I never thought I'd see renewable energy bashed for producing [i]too much[/i] energy.
[QUOTE=Gordy H.;25806311]I'm no expert, but wouldn't it be better to develop technology to accommodate these surges rather then capping the number of solar panels in the country?[/QUOTE]Probably just a temporary measure to prevent problems in the short term while measures are taken to accommodate it.
Solar powered time machine? That's so eco-friendly.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;25806561]capping them is cheaper; we're in a recession[/QUOTE]
oil companies pressuring government
Fantastic
:smug:
[QUOTE=Computermaster;25808991]Get some bigass batteries and store it for evening use.[/QUOTE]
Well, the problem is that you can't store huge amounts of energy. Anywhere it goes, including across power lines, it is slowly bleeding out and heating shit. The solution is to use it immediately.
[QUOTE=Explosions;25812040]Fantastic
:smug:[/QUOTE]
This is like, theoretical physics man.
Just do what we did here recently, where everybody turned off their lights for an hour, but instead have everybody turn on [B]everything[/B] for an hour.
[QUOTE=Xolo;25812340]Well, the problem is that you can't store huge amounts of energy. Anywhere it goes, including across power lines, it is slowly bleeding out and heating shit. The solution is to use it immediately.[/QUOTE]
Losing a little is better than losing it all.
Capacitors you bastards.
We need bigger Capacitors.
Hook the solar panels into a current-draw monitoring system and switch the things off when the house/building doesn't need the electricity.
[QUOTE=rieda1589;25812946]Who's for capacitors the size of skyscrapers?[/QUOTE]
When those things start bulging you'll have to evac the whole city
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;25812028]oil companies pressuring government[/QUOTE]
no they're not, it's just that there's no reason to store that much excess power
it's not like with oil where we need to scrap the bottom of the barrel; the sun isn't going anywhere
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;25814295]no they're not, it's just that there's no reason to store that much excess power
it's not like with oil where we need to scrap the bottom of the barrel; the sun isn't going anywhere[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, we just go around it faster than it moves.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;25814035]When those things start bulging you'll have to evac the whole city[/QUOTE]
Fun fact, everything bulges right before it explodes.
[QUOTE=smurfy;25810001]I never thought I'd see renewable energy bashed for producing [I]too much[/I] energy.[/QUOTE]
It does not produce too much energy. The problem is, that it's not a reliable source, so you can't prepare the grid for it. See, coal, water, nuclear, pretty much all those sources are extremely stable. They provide reliable stream of energy, and any deviance is foretold or planned days before it happens. Solar panels can change their output in matter of seconds, and compensating for this in something as complex and massive as power grid isn't as simple as it may seem. The grid is seriously very complicated, and many things can't be managed real-time.
Right, you might conserve the energy, but again, you lose enormous amounts of energy by doing this. Not even batteries are really effective during single cycle, and you must remember that they have to be manufactured and replaced after some time. Then you start counting if it's even ecological to support solar arrays when you lose half of the energy in batteries anyway, and spend a lot of effort and produce a lot of pollution by making them in the first place.
[editline]3rd November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Computermaster;25812461]Losing a little is better than losing it all.[/QUOTE]
We are talking about significant amount. Great amount only in each charge-discharge cycle, and all the energy you have to use to produce the batteries in the first place (a lot).
[editline]3rd November 2010[/editline]
There was a huge campaign on how green and good and dandy solar energy is, but everybody who knows a thing or two about it knows that it's expensive, unreliable, and not so green when it sums up. Yes, we have to search for alternate sources of energy. No, solar energy, at least as we are able to use it now, is not a good solution.
[QUOTE=Computermaster;25808991]Get some bigass batteries and store it for evening use.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://static.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;25816155]
Right, you might conserve the energy, but again, you lose enormous amounts of energy by doing this. Not even batteries are really effective during single cycle, and you must remember that they have to be manufactured and replaced after some time. Then you start counting if it's even ecological to support solar arrays when you lose half of the energy in batteries anyway, and spend a lot of effort and produce a lot of pollution by making them in the first place.
[/QUOTE]
Hydrogen Fuel Cells.
[QUOTE=rieda1589;25812946]Who's for capacitors the size of skyscrapers?[/QUOTE]
Who's for destroying everything near by when they discharge? :v:
That's a horrendous idea.
[QUOTE=bravehat;25825517]Who's for destroying everything near by when they discharge? :v:
That's a horrendous idea.[/QUOTE]That would be awe-inspiring to see it in action, though.
:science:
On a serious note, You could try to limit the extent by placing them in places with stable weather. Do a investigation of witch areas that have the most sun during a year and how regular it is
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