[quote=BBC News][b]The UK government must ensure that military equipment sold to Israel is not used in the occupied territories, MPs have said.[/b]
Ministers must learn "broader lessons" about ensuring the ban on the trade in such products for use in Gaza and the West Bank is enforced, a report adds. [b]The MPs said it was "regrettable" that UK arms sold to Israel were "almost certainly" used in Gaza in 2008.[/b]
However, they said the UK provided less than 1% of arms exported to Israel.
The Commons Committees on Arms Export Controls - made up of members of other select committees - questioned ministers on the state of the military equipment trade.
It heard that arms deals with Israel had been looked at on a "case-by-case basis", rather than the UK government imposing an embargo.
It is regrettable that arms exports to Israel were almost certainly used in Operation Cast Lead
MPs' report
[b]Five licences had been revoked since Operation Cast Lead, launched by Israel in December 2008.[/b]
The Israeli armed forces launched a 22-day offensive in the Gaza Strip, bombing Palestinian cities before sending in ground troops - in response, Israel said, to Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israel.
After this, Hamas launched its rockets in increased numbers at Israeli towns near the Gaza Strip, before agreeing to a ceasefire.
Palestinians and rights groups say more than 1,400 Gazans died in the conflict but Israel puts the figure at 1,166. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians, were killed.
[b]A report issued in September 2009 by the UN Human Rights Commission found that Israel and Hamas, the militant group that runs Gaza, had committed war crimes during the conflict.[/b]
In their report, the MPs said: "We repeat our conclusion that it is regrettable that arms exports to Israel were almost certainly used in Operation Cast Lead.
"This is in direct contravention to the UK government's policy that UK arms exports to Israel should not be used in the occupied territories.
"We further conclude that the revoking of five UK arms exports licences to Israel since Cast Lead is welcome, but that broader lessons must be learned from the post-conflict review to ensure that UK arms exports to Israel are not used in the occupied territories in future.
"We recommend that the government, in its response to this report, set out clearly the longer term lessons learnt post-Operation Cast Lead and how they will impact in practice on the issuing of future licences for arms exports to Israel."
'Take Gaza into account'
In evidence to the MPs in April last year, Bill Rammell, then a Foreign Office minister, said the government had not authorised any exports relating to F-16 jets, helicopters or armoured personnel carriers for Israel since the conflict in Lebanon in 2006.
He also said that "all of these export decisions were in accordance with the criteria on that information that we had available at the time".
But Foreign Secretary David Miliband made a statement on 21 April last year, in which he said the F-16s and Apache helicopters used by Israeli forces during Operation Cast Lead had "almost certainly" contained British-supplied components.
In their report, the MPs said: "The government stated it would take the conflict in Gaza into account in assessing all future licence applications."
They added: "The government wrote to the committees in July 2009 with an update on the review of 182 extant licences to Israel.
"It decided to revoke five licences for equipment to the Israeli Navy. It stated that there was no evidence that the decision to revoke those licences has had any impact on the UK's defence relationship with either the USA or Israel."
The Campaign Against the Arms Trade, which also gave evidence to the MPs, said it was "virtually impossible to guarantee that any military equipment supplied to the Israeli government will not be used in the occupied territories".
[b]It called for an embargo on arms and components going to Israel, both directly and through use in weapons produced in other countries and then sold on to Israel.[/b]
The campaign said the government had licensed arms exports worth between £10m and £30m a year for export directly to Israel over the past few years.
During 2008, licences for goods worth more than £27.5m had been approved, it added, while the UK had sold components used in weapons exported to Israel by US suppliers.
In evidence in January this year, Foreign Office Minister Ivan Lewis said there would "not be any arms embargo against Israel" as the government was "firmly of the view that Israel faces real threats".
Israeli tanks advanced briefly into the Gaza Strip at the weekend, following clashes in which two Israeli soldiers and two Palestinian militants died.
It is the first time Israeli soldiers have died in Gaza since Operation Cast Lead.[/quote]
Source: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8594402.stm[/url]
[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47558000/jpg/_47558676_006650250-1.jpg[/img]
It's a small step in the right direction, but it's not enough.
The Israeli government is a pack of useless fucking hypocritical cunts.
Burn them all.
Definite step forward.
EU ties with Israel are at risk ever since the Duabi assassination (Forging EU passports), now UK. Soon other countries will follow their footsteps.
Oh yeah as well as U.S.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;21423893]The Israeli government is a pack of useless fucking hypocritical cunts.
Burn them all.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far.
They just need a swift slap to the face. To show that they can't operate with diplomatic, legal, and militarily impunity.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21423911]I wouldn't go that far.
They just need a swift slap to the face. To show that they can't operate with diplomatic, legal, and militarily impunity.[/QUOTE]
This.
So Israel isn't allowed to defend themselves? Maybe they should follow suit with the Palestinians, and start throwing rocks at each other.
Now before anyone tries to debunk my simple statement, why are the Egyptians also putting up a wall at the border?
Maybe because they're dangerous.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424015]So Israel isn't allowed to defend themselves? Maybe they should follow suit with the Palestinians, and start throwing rocks at each other.
Now before anyone tries to debunk my simple statement, why are the Egyptians also putting up a wall at the border?
Maybe because they're dangerous.[/QUOTE]
Countries don't like selling to war criminals. On both sides.
Egypt is building a wall to stop illegal activities, smuggling and migration. It's purpose is no different to the american/mexican one.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21424059]Countries don't like selling to war criminals. On both sides.
Egypt is building a wall to stop illegal activities, smuggling and migration. It's purpose is no different to the american/mexican one.[/QUOTE]
And this is the reason why Israel needs weapons. As evident by both the wall surrounding the Gaza Strip and the US/Mexico border, illicit good can be smuggled in, such as weapons.
If Israel is not allowed to use internationally bought weapons when fighting threats, what are they going to use? Rocks?
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424015]So Israel isn't allowed to defend themselves? Maybe they should follow suit with the Palestinians, and start throwing rocks at each other.
Now before anyone tries to debunk my simple statement, why are the Egyptians also putting up a wall at the border?
Maybe because they're dangerous.[/QUOTE]
Israel is not capable of defending themselves/are not capable of doing so correctly.
Egypt put the wall on their border because they're allies with Israel, yet the same weak pro-israeli argument circualtes "Israel is surrounded by nations that want to destroy it!",
The UK exports weapons? What does the UK even make that Israel would import weapon-wise?
EDIT: Oh looks like components used in the hardware they are getting from the US. Whooptee do. Now the contracts will go to another factory in another country and Israel will continue on totally unscathed while the UK economy suffers as a result. That...doesn't seem to help anyone.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424101]And this is the reason why Israel needs weapons. As evident by both the wall surrounding the Gaza Strip and the US/Mexico border, illicit good can be smuggled in, such as weapons.
If Israel is not allowed to use internationally bought weapons when fighting threats, what are they going to use? Rocks?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8608376.stm[/url]
The tunnels are needed to keep Gaza alive.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21424104]Israel is not capable of defending themselves/are not capable of doing so correctly.[/QUOTE]
What makes you think that? I can see evidence that it has worked.
What happened to all the bombings of the "Second Intifada"?
[quote=starpluck;21424104]Egypt put the wall on their border because they're allies with Israel, yet the same weak pro-israeli argument circualtes "Israel is surrounded by nations that want to destroy it!",[/quote]
Israel are allies with Jordan and Egypt - I don't understand your point.
[quote]Palestinians and rights groups say more than 1,400 Gazans died in the conflict but Israel puts the figure at 1,166[/quote]
Now that's a substantial difference right there
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21424130][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8608376.stm[/url]
The tunnels are needed to keep Gaza alive.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that the extent of Israel's good and service blockade is correct, but what does that have to do with weapons?
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424136]What makes you think that? I can see evidence that it has worked.
What happened to all the bombings of the "Second Intifada"?
[/quote]
You don't get it.
Israel is incapable of defending themselves within International Law. Tbh, Israel seems more like the opposite of defending.
[quote]
Israel are allies with Jordan and Egypt - I don't understand your point.[/QUOTE]
What happened to the "Surrounded by nations that want to destroy it!" argument?
People talk as though Israel has some sort of response that isn't aggressive. No matter what they do, the strip is NEVER going to stop harassing them. Their government is kind of in a political corner.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424101]And this is the reason why Israel needs weapons. As evident by both the wall surrounding the Gaza Strip and the US/Mexico border, illicit good can be smuggled in, such as weapons.
If Israel is not allowed to use internationally bought weapons when fighting threats, what are they going to use? Rocks?[/QUOTE]
They should have thought about that before they started doing stupid shit like killing civilians.
[QUOTE=GunFox;21424105]The UK exports weapons? What does the UK even make that Israel would import weapon-wise?[/QUOTE]
The UK is one of the worlds largest arms exporters.
Some of the biggest Arms companies are British. Go figure.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21423911]I wouldn't go that far.
They just need a swift slap to the face. To show that they can't operate with diplomatic, legal, and militarily impunity.[/QUOTE]
Because bombing the fuck of the most crowded place in the middle east, killing over 1000 civilians, just to target a few extremists deserves a slap on the wrist.
[QUOTE=GunFox;21424177]People talk as though Israel has some sort of response that isn't aggressive. No matter what they do, the strip is NEVER going to stop harassing them. Their government is kind of in a political corner.[/QUOTE]
Clinton said it herself "Israel empowered Hamas and other terrorist groups".
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21424179]The UK is one of the worlds largest arms exporters.
Some of the biggest Arms companies are British. Go figure.[/QUOTE]
...and they make?
I'm actually serious. I'm running through a list of all the British hardware I know, and aside from some aircraft that might be produced in the UK, I'm coming up blank.
[QUOTE=GunFox;21424177]People talk as though Israel has some sort of response that isn't aggressive. No matter what they do, the strip is NEVER going to stop harassing them. Their government is kind of in a political corner.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8601171.stm[/url]
[QUOTE=JerryK;21424178]They should have thought about that before they started doing stupid shit like killing civilians.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but what are the people in Gaza doing? They're lauching rockets into Israel etc with the intent of killing civilians.
[editline]11:08PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=starpluck;21424164]You don't get it.
Israel is incapable of defending themselves within International Law. Tbh, Israel seems more like the opposite of defending.
[/quote]
International Law is bullshit. It's almost never followed in a war. There are clear violations in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia and ever war since. Pick on the US if you want to focus on International Law. They recently committed the largest illegal entry into a country ever... Iraq.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21424164]
What happened to the "Surrounded by nations that want to destroy it!" argument?[/QUOTE]
Israel must arm themselves to defend from Syria, Iran (although not a neighbour), southern Lebanon and other countries.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21424194][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8601171.stm[/url][/QUOTE]
Unless they actually DO IT, it doesn't mean shit.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424207]southern Lebanon and other countries.[/QUOTE]
Kinda funny, the Israeli founder often said he wished to annex Lebanon as a Christian state.
No wonder they think Israel is a threat.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424207]
"..International Law is bullshit. It's almost never followed in a war. There are clear violations in WW2.."
[/QUOTE]
The United Nations wasn't even formed yet.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21424265]Kinda funny, the Israeli founder often said he wished to annex Lebanon as a Christian state.
No wonder they think Israel is a threat.[/QUOTE]
When I say Southern Lebanon, I'm talking about Hezbollah, who are Islam extremists. The northern part of Lebanon are Christian.
Hezbollah hate Christians and Jews alike. The actual Lebanese Government has "some" diplomatic communication with Israel.
[QUOTE=GunFox;21424245]Unless they actually DO IT, it doesn't mean shit.[/QUOTE]
Stop grasping at straws. I completely sank your entire point with one hyperlink.
Move along now please.
[editline]02:14PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424283]When I say Southern Lebanon, I'm talking about Hezbollah, who are Islam extremists. The northern part of Lebanon are Christian.
Hezbollah hate Christians and Jews alike. The actual Lebanese Government has "some" diplomatic communication with Israel.[/QUOTE]
Hezbollah are just trying to protect their country for annexation. And they have successfully.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21424280]The United Nations wasn't even formed yet.[/QUOTE]
The United Nations is not and was not the only body that setup international law.
For instance, the Hague Convenstions was considered International Law in 1899.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424308]The United Nations is not and was not the only body that setup international law.
For instance, the Hague [B]Convenstions [/B]was considered International Law in 1899.[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the U.N Int'l law and I assumed you were doing the same.
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