David Miliband: we need a second vote on Brexit deal - Polidicks

[t]https://i.imgur.com/uXu3N1A.jpg[/t] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/12/david-miliband-calls-second-vote-on-brexit-deal-europe-britain[/url] [quote]David Miliband has made a dramatic entry into the debate about Britain’s exit from the EU with an impassioned call for politicians from all parties to work together to avoid the Tory high command driving the country “off a cliff”. Labour’s former foreign secretary warned that Brexit is an “unparalleled act of economic self-harm” and suggested that it is up to MPs of all political colours to fight back against its worst consequences. The country’s future, he argued, should be decided by another vote on the terms of a final settlement – either by referendum or in parliament.[/quote] [quote]“This transatlantic malaise has a common root,” Miliband wrote. “Politics based on what you are against, not what you are for. Look at the campaigns against the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and against the EU. There is a common trope: the politics of grievance.” He claims that the UK is suffering a governability crisis. “Leaving the EU was mis-sold as a quick fix,” Miliband wrote. “Now it looks like a decade-long process of unscrambling the eggs of the national and European legislation. Ministers cannot even agree among themselves the destination, the route map, or the vehicles to get us there.” But the case against the EU depends on avoiding a discussion of the alternative, Miliband believes. “It is the equivalent of voting to repeal Obamacare without knowing the replacement. It is a stitch-up. That is one reason it is essential that parliament or the public are given the chance to have a straight vote between EU membership and the negotiated alternative.” In an attempt to broaden the debate, Miliband made an impassioned plea for the EU to be seen as more than an economic bloc. “The EU is not just a group of neighbouring countries. It is a coalition of democratic states which pledge to advance human rights, the rule of law and democratic rules. That is not a threat to Britain; it is the team we should be on.”[/quote]

[quote]“This transatlantic malaise has a common root,” Miliband wrote. “Politics based on what you are against, not what you are for."[/quote] Holy shit that's ace

one more crack in the fascist wall of stupidity. the brexit deal they're hammering and what people voted for are not even remotely alike, and its been well demonstrated that the probrexit group just flat out lied about everything to scare people into voting.

But now that people know what Brexit will bring, the Stay demographic will outweigh the Leave! And the dry joyless cunts in charge don't want the peasants getting in the way of their interests. Let's hope we actually do get to rejoin the EU, perhaps sending over Theresa May's head as a peace offering. But if they don't want to let us back in? Maybe ask the Nordic Council if they'd have us. After all, when you think about it Britain does have a fair few Nordic qualities.

[QUOTE=Sableye;52568658]one more crack in the fascist wall of stupidity. the brexit deal they're hammering and what people voted for are not even remotely alike, and its been well demonstrated that the probrexit group just flat out lied about everything to scare people into voting.[/QUOTE] I imagine that's why the Tories want the utmost security and secrecy for the Brexit talks -- they're more afraid of the British people learning their plans (or lack thereof) than the EU negotiators?

Much as I'd love to be Scandinavian, I think the EU is probably the better option for Britain. If they'll have us back.

[QUOTE=verynicelady;52568719]Much as I'd love to be Scandinavian, I think the EU is probably the better option for Britain. If they'll have us back.[/QUOTE] Probably not with the existing special regulations, unless they're [I]really[/I] friendly and somehow allow the UK to cancel the exit process altogether.

[QUOTE=ironman17;52568678]But now that people know what Brexit will bring, the Stay demographic will outweigh the Leave! And the dry joyless cunts in charge don't want the peasants getting in the way of their interests. Let's hope we actually do get to rejoin the EU, perhaps sending over Theresa May's head as a peace offering. But if they don't want to let us back in? Maybe ask the Nordic Council if they'd have us. After all, when you think about it Britain does have a fair new Nordic qualities.[/QUOTE] One of the SNP's back burner plans for independence was to join the Nordic Council if Scotland didn't get into the EU upon independence but I think it was abandoned. Only thing Scandavian about Scotland is the flag of Caithness and Shetland anyway tbh. [Thumb]http://i.imgur.com/RVDx54L.jpg[/thumb]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52568645]Holy shit that's ace[/QUOTE] David is awesome, he meant to be the guy to lead Labour post 2010 but Ed Miliband, his brother, kinda fucked him over and the rest is history. I still like Ed, but I think David would have almost certainly won in 2015.

Reminder that right now in an alternate universe, David Miliband is in his third year as Prime Minister and the idea of an EU referendum is largely sunk after David Cameron put it into his manifesto and lost Don't call it a grave, it's the future we chose

Yeah, No. The idea of running a second referendum is not good for the overall health of the democracy. Also, the stats are turning, [url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-29-remain-voters-accept-deport-eu-citizens-must-leave-study-lse-oxford-a7889241.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52569368]Yeah, No. The idea of running a second referendum is not good for the overall health of the democracy.[/QUOTE] How is having people vote a second time now that they know the truth about something not healthy for a democracy? What's not healthy for a democracy is having the people who have won a referendum by outright fucking lying their asses off not being punished in any way for it.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52569368]Yeah, No. The idea of running a second referendum is not good for the overall health of the democracy. Also, the stats are turning, [url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-29-remain-voters-accept-deport-eu-citizens-must-leave-study-lse-oxford-a7889241.html[/url][/QUOTE] "Lets just keep having re-referendums and re-elections until the ruling party gets what they want."

I was against a second referendum at first but really it makes sense, leave promised all these wonderful things if we left and if we aren't getting them then we should be thinking about why we're even leaving other than "immigrants are taking our jobs"

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52569368]Yeah, No. The idea of running a second referendum is not good for the overall health of the democracy. Also, the stats are turning, [url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-29-remain-voters-accept-deport-eu-citizens-must-leave-study-lse-oxford-a7889241.html[/url][/QUOTE] Nobody voted for the details of the deal. It would be in the best interest of the people to validate what the rulers are doing.

Nuh-uh! No take-backs!

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52568824]One of the SNP's back burner plans for independence was to join the Nordic Council if Scotland didn't get into the EU upon independence but I think it was abandoned. Only thing Scandavian about Scotland is the flag of Caithness and Shetland anyway tbh. [Thumb]http://i.imgur.com/RVDx54L.jpg[/thumb][/QUOTE] tbh, we can just shift the flag to the left a bit and call it a day. [IMG]https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/attachments/unioncross-png.114732/[/IMG]

I don't understand why we don't just re-vote. Sure it looks unstable but is following through with a repeatedly proven horrible idea much better?

The UK was always the most obstructive member state, so them leaving isn't all bad.

[QUOTE=Black Pete;52583447]The UK was always the most obstructive member state, so them leaving isn't all bad.[/QUOTE] It's left a €20bn hole in the EU budget though [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/29/brexit-blow-20bn-hole-eu-budget-european-commissioner[/url]

[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52583494]It's left a €20bn hole in the EU budget though [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/29/brexit-blow-20bn-hole-eu-budget-european-commissioner[/url][/QUOTE] But that's something the EU will recover from eventually though. The UK, almost no matter what deals they get, will never fully recover.

[QUOTE=Black Pete;52583447]The UK was always the most obstructive member state, so them leaving isn't all bad.[/QUOTE] It is for us.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52583535]But that's something the EU will recover from eventually though. [B]The UK, almost no matter what deals they get, will never fully recover.[/B][/QUOTE] Source?

[QUOTE=ferrus;52593305]Source?[/QUOTE] every economist? they're planning on leaving the european single market without a trade deal in place and are hoping bilateral trade deals will fill the gap. there is no way they can ever replace free access to europe

[QUOTE=Sableye;52593580]every economist? they're planning on leaving the european single market without a trade deal in place and are hoping bilateral trade deals will fill the gap. there is no way they can ever replace free access to europe[/QUOTE] I hope they do a second vote I wanna continue to benefit from amazon.co.uk deals without having to pay import duties

I gotta wonder how a second vote would work out. Brexit was always a bad idea but it's just so apparent now that I'd be willing to bet remain would completely mop the floor with leave, espcially in a world where everyone has already seen- A: That leave could actually win the vote and this isn't just a huge joke to be laughed off. B: The disastrous mess that the leave campaign became after winning a vote they never intended to win, and thus never planned for. But while I certainly think a lot of people who fell for Brexit bullshit would switch sides after seeing just how hollow the promised victory turned out to be, there will always be that dedicated group that didn't care whether brexit was a good thing or a bad thing- It was just about being bitter and screwing over other people to vindicate dated ideals. With the histrionics over "traitors!", "enemies of the people!" and "Saboteurs!" we have already seen printed by the right wing tabloids, [i]when they got their own away[/i] I can imagine the reaction would really bad if another vote was called and they lost.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52569368]Yeah, No. The idea of running a second referendum is not good for the overall health of the democracy. Also, the stats are turning, [url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-29-remain-voters-accept-deport-eu-citizens-must-leave-study-lse-oxford-a7889241.html[/url][/QUOTE] It still blows my mind that you think Brexit will bring Prosperity to the UK.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52569368]Yeah, No. The idea of running a second referendum is not good for the overall health of the democracy. Also, the stats are turning, [url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-29-remain-voters-accept-deport-eu-citizens-must-leave-study-lse-oxford-a7889241.html[/url][/QUOTE] Brexit only succeeded due to extremely low voter turnout - Almost no one legitmatley believed it would happen and they didn't show up to the polls. It was a complete fluke. [img_thumb]https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/11/05/11/brexit-chart.jpg[/img_thumb] There should be a revote so a proper democratic choice can take place. It just didn't seem possible to most brits.

Why not have a referendum and vote on a Brexit revote?

And then the UK's membership is perpetually in limbo, as power switches from Labour to Tories and back again, and new referendums are called for.