[quote]NSW Aboriginal Affairs Minister Victor Dominello says describing European settlement as an "invasion" is divisive, but has stopped short of criticising the City of Sydney Council for doing so in its official documents.
Councillors on Monday night voted to include the word "invasion" in council's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander statement, sparking complaints that they were rewriting history about the arrival of Europeans.
Mr Dominello said that while the change was a matter for the City of Sydney, such divisive language was counterproductive to the reconciliation process.
"I want to be very clear that reconciliation and progress can only be built on language that unifies us, not language that divides us," he told reporters in Sydney on Tuesday.
"I understand that some people have a belief that that's what took place, but that can be a matter for debate, and quite frankly it should be a matter for historians."[/quote]
Source: [url]http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8266154/council-declares-settlement-an-invasion[/url]
Poll: Do you think white settlers "invaded" Australia in 1788?
Agree - Yes
Disagree - No
My personal vote is No.
well considering the fact that settlers were responsible for a huge amount of dead aboriginal people both directly and indirectly, i think invasion is only a matter of perspective
well the original intent was a settlement, but although the slaughter that ensued was horrible, it doesn't technically make it an invasion, but a settlement that involved massacre. I know im probably arguing semantics, but still i dont think it was an invasion.
and shit like this isnt helping the reconciliation process
and that bullshit proposal to change australia day to "invasion day" that was around some time ago would pretty much encite race hatred towards aboriginals straight up if it went through, it was probably the dumbest and least thought out idea id ever heard
what's the reconciliation process exactly?
invasion is again, a matter of perspective
of course the people who are accused of invading won't say they are invading
[QUOTE=thisispain;30759795]what's the reconciliation process exactly?
invasion is again, a matter of perspective
of course the people who are accused of invading won't say they are invading[/QUOTE]
the reconcilation procress is essentially the aboriginal and non-aboriginal communities trying to make amends for the violent settlement, and eventually the stolen generation.
[QUOTE=Pace.;30759830]the reconcilation procress is essentially the aboriginal and non-aboriginal communities trying to make amends for the violent settlement, and eventually the stolen generation.[/QUOTE]
amends for what
obviously it's not working
[QUOTE=thisispain;30759843]amends for what
obviously it's not working[/QUOTE]
well to be honest most of it is political bullshit, there's still a huge disparity between aboriginals and non-aboriginals in terms of economic status, health, and a lot of racism and stereotypes still persists towards them, and even though the government supposedly gives aboriginals "self -determination" (freedom from government intervention) there has been so much government involvement in aboriginal communities, such as banning of alcohol and pornography, floor prices for alcohol in communities without outright bans, and the use of special fuel that doesnt create fumes (to prevent petrol sniffing)
tl;dr politicians fail again
Well, it resulted in an occupation and annexation (well, we got around that with terra nullius but effectively the same thing), which tends to come about as an invasion.
It ultimately depends on a few things.
E.g. is it stealing if you take from someone who doesn't believe in personal property?
or is it legitimate to use land that is being wasted/not used?
Personally, yes, the colonization of Australia was an invasion, but invasions aren't a particularly abnormal thing. The losing side generally doesn't get to ask for reparations.
The terra nullius argument has more weight when you consider that the majority of aboriginals were wiped out by smallpox and other diseases.
We don't invade we infest.
[QUOTE=thisispain;30759843]amends for what
obviously it's not working[/QUOTE]
Amends for aboriginals being the bottom rung in virtually every metric, from health to education and so on.
No shit it's not working, the government talks about aboriginal communities improving themselves, and being 'part' of Australia while retaining their values and customs, while effectively stating in the next sentence that aboriginals are all child molesting drunkards who are too dangerous to be given the rights of ordinary citizens.
[editline]28th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chickens!;30759927]We don't invade we infest.[/QUOTE]
Lack of hygiene: the key causative factor in modern western dominance
I think it was an invasion, but i don't think that's a bad thing in this case.
When you invade you don't build houses and chairs
[QUOTE=Sniping Robot;30760042]When you invade you don't build houses and chairs[/QUOTE]
no i don't think that's the classification for invasion
[QUOTE=Sniping Robot;30760042]When you invade you don't build houses and chairs[/QUOTE]
yeah fuck oath mate
these fuckan savages didnt know fuckan shit and we taught em
dickheads should be thanking us true blue aussies
[editline]28th June 2011[/editline]
[man with VB and australian flag at cronulla riots.jpg]
Colonization is bringing the enlightenment from Europe and bringing joy and happiness to a couple of barbaric tribes that would've been long lost if we had never arrived, and I say this proudly as a Spanish, for my nation did that to many parts of South America, among others.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RQ0Bh3Xy8tg/S77coGSvseI/AAAAAAAACpo/1e-Hviw1cok/s1600/Conquistadores.jpg[/img]
This is just an example of how chill we were with them, just showing our pimpin' armor and shit
Are you joking or is the propaganda that good in Spain?
[QUOTE=Contag;30760231]Are you joking or is the propaganda that good in Spain?[/QUOTE]
Why would I be lying about my glorious nation all bow against the mighty Rodriguez Zapatero, viva el presidente, all glory to Spain!
[QUOTE=gnisasas;30760245]Why would I be lying about my glorious nation all bow against the mighty Rodriguez Zapatero, viva el presidente, all glory to Spain![/QUOTE]
Glory indeed!
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_srpM9vEFDw0/S_HxHnyhPxI/AAAAAAAACqg/Pv0t01m6qe4/s400/zp-bean.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Contag;30759963]Amends for aboriginals being the bottom rung in virtually every metric, from health to education and so on.
No shit it's not working, the government talks about aboriginal communities improving themselves, and being 'part' of Australia while retaining their values and customs, while effectively stating in the next sentence that aboriginals are all child molesting drunkards who are too dangerous to be given the rights of ordinary citizens.
[editline]28th June 2011[/editline]
Lack of hygiene: the key causative factor in modern western dominance[/QUOTE]
Ugh, and what do you propose enlightened one? I can tell you right now, if you abolished all the government handouts and counter measures and treated them exactly like everyone else I am confident things would get worse not better. News flash, the world that existed 60,000 years ago no longer exists, the culture and attitudes no longer have a place.
There is no point tip-toeing around it, the faster we find ways to properly integrate them in to modern society the happier everyone will be. I am pretty sure we are seeing the result of trying to coexist with an extremely old and sadly backward culture, the result isn't good. It simply isn't possible to encapsulate them in a bubble away from the modern world. We will always be interfering as well when it comes to things we see as "morally wrong" like underage sex. (which I am guessing isn't that unacceptable if you are a traditional Aboriginal).
Of course you bleeding heart types will probably tell me what a horrible person I am, and what I am suggesting is the active destruction of a culture. But I am sincerely curious what "better" alternative there is, because at this point in time the world has indeed moved on, and we need practical solutions without people being labeled as "horrible racists" for suggesting that they need to move on as well.
Most of the colonists didn't even want to be there, they were convicts sent against their will.
Well it wasn't as if the first Europeans to settle knew anything about what they were going to land on. They didn't know if it was settled already or not and they came with no army. However I do suppose it could be an "un-intentional invasion", or something like that.
[QUOTE=Isotope;30760694]There is no point tip-toeing around it, the faster we find ways to properly integrate them in to modern society the happier everyone will be. I am pretty sure we are seeing the result of trying to coexist with an extremely old and sadly backward culture, the result isn't good. It simply isn't possible to encapsulate them in a bubble away from the modern world. We will always be interfering as well when it comes to things we see as "morally wrong" like underage sex. (which I am guessing isn't that unacceptable if you are a traditional Aboriginal).[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you talking about?
You state that without 'government handouts' (yes, because so much money has been poured into aboriginal communities - communities, not committees regarding the communities) and treating aboriginals like everyone else things would get far worse, and then you advocate assimilation, and blame their 'culture'.
Firstly, aboriginal culture is not some monolithic entity, and for the most part, it's are already dead, and what is left is scant at best.
Secondly, you express distaste and poorly mock me, and then present my point that "It simply isn't possible to encapsulate them in a bubble away from the modern world". Make up your fucking mind, either you're for "the government handouts and counter measures", or you're not.
I don't give a damn about their culture, and you're a complete dickhead if you think that's why aboriginal communities are shit. They're shit because aboriginals are discriminated against, heavily. The problems in aboriginal communities are the same with a range of oppressed minorities throughout the world.
Admittedly, yes, there is some cultural basis to it, but it's functionally indistinguishable from all the other 'they discriminate against us so we'll hash together some shit we think about our ancestors', and has nothing to do with being aboriginal, or the culture being 60,000 years old (because such a claim is fucking idiotic).
[editline]28th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;30761048]Well it wasn't as if the first Europeans to settle knew anything about what they were going to land on. They didn't know if it was settled already or not and they came with no army. However I do suppose it could be an "un-intentional invasion", or something like that.[/QUOTE]
They knew some black folk were running about, and there was the occasional skirmish.
tribal communities have no place in modern society anyways lol
they don't contribute anything other than 'culture' and asking for us for reparations or protest every time when their country gets selected for the Olympics.
[QUOTE=Mabus;30760730]Most of the colonists didn't even want to be there, they were convicts sent against their will.[/QUOTE]
They were the human equivalent of putting your bag on a seat, so no one takes it.
[editline]28th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;30761100]tribal communities have no place in modern society anyways lol
they don't contribute anything other than 'culture' and asking for us for reparations or protest every time when their country gets selected for the Olympics.[/QUOTE]
I find minority groups asking for reparations absolutely absurd.
If they are genuinely being discriminated against, then the reparations will never be granted.
If society has moved on, then it's as legitimate as me claiming damages against anyone who has ever wronged any of my ancestors.
[QUOTE=Chickens!;30759927]We don't invade we infest.[/QUOTE]
That was funny becuase I read infest as incest. :v:
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