American spies paid $100,000 to a Russian who wanted to sell material on Trump
53 replies, posted
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/us/politics/us-cyberweapons-russia-trump.html[/url]
[quote]After months of secret negotiations, a shadowy Russian bilked American spies out of $100,000 last year, promising to deliver stolen National Security Agency cyberweapons in a deal that he insisted would also include compromising material on President Trump, according to American and European intelligence officials.
The cash, delivered in a suitcase to a Berlin hotel room in September, was intended as the first installment of a $1 million payout, according to American officials, the Russian and communications reviewed by The New York Times. The theft of the secret hacking tools had been devastating to the N.S.A., and the agency was struggling to get a full inventory of what was missing.
Several American intelligence officials said they made clear that they did not want the Trump material from the Russian — who was suspected of having murky ties to Russian intelligence and to Eastern European cybercriminals. He claimed the information would link the president and his associates to Russia. But instead of providing the hacking tools, the Russian produced unverified and possibly fabricated information involving Mr. Trump and others, including bank records, emails and purported Russian intelligence data.[/quote]
There is some weird ass spy movie playing out in the background of the world right now. This is one of those article that's like a big story and you kind of have to read all of it
It doesn't really seem likely they would have just one copy of the toolset that they stole from the NSA
[QUOTE=Sableye;53120971]It doesn't really seem likely they would have just one copy of the toolset that they stole from the NSA[/QUOTE]
They want it back because they still aren't sure how much of their shit was compromised
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;53120972]They want it back because they still aren't sure how much of their shit was compromised[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. By providing everything the "defector" can get his hands on he prove how much has been taken.
It's pretty fucking bizarre though this turns into a dodgy disinfo operation regarding Trump from the Russians though. Sounds like they were trying to embarrass US intelligence.
I predict that conservative media will try to spin this as "proof" of "deep state" bias, despite them flatly refusing the information
[QUOTE=download;53121000]Pretty much this. By providing everything the "defector" can get his hands on he prove how much has been taken.
It's pretty fucking bizarre though this turns into a dodgy disinfo operation regarding Trump from the Russians though. Sounds like they were trying to embarrass US intelligence.[/QUOTE]
You're most likely right on that. Russia doesn't care about protecting Trump, they care about throwing our country into political, social, and economic chaos. Their objectives and methods are designed to discredit, divide, and incite our government and our people. Trump just happens to be an incredible tool for that particular job.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53121263]You're most likely right on that. Russia doesn't care about protecting Trump, they care about throwing our country into political, social, and economic chaos. Their objectives and methods are designed to discredit, divide, and incite our government and our people. Trump just happens to be an incredible tool for that particular job.[/QUOTE]
In a way, by hyper-reporting every stupid thing Trump is doing, we're just feeding into Russia's hands.
[QUOTE=download;53121349]In a way, by hyper-reporting every stupid thing Trump is doing, we're just feeding into Russia's hands.[/QUOTE]
You're right that the chaos within our country right now is exactly what Russia wanted from their attack, but I fail to see how apathy is a better course of action. Your mistake here is assuming that we can still foil Russia's scheme. We can't. It's already succeeded. They won this one. There is no way to avoid suffering the consequences of that this time, but we CAN still prevent a "next time." Refusing to allow the great betrayal that occurred here (and is still occurring) from going unanswered is a critical part of that. Our press is critical to defending our democracy.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53121508]You're right that the chaos within our country right now is exactly what Russia wanted from their attack, but I fail to see how apathy is a better course of action. Your mistake here is assuming that we can still foil Russia's scheme. We can't. It's already succeeded. They won this one. There is no way to avoid suffering the consequences of that this time, but we CAN still prevent a "next time." Refusing to allow the great betrayal that occurred here (and is still occurring) from going unanswered is a critical part of that. Our press is critical to defending our democracy.[/QUOTE]
So, can we take a similar attitude towards Islamic terrorism in the west and relent on avoiding its scheme of sowing division, calling the problem for what it is?
honestly it seems entirely within Russia's plan for Trump to get caught at this point
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;53121677]honestly it seems entirely within Russia's plan for Trump to get caught at this point[/QUOTE]
"Has comrad Ivan delivered the damaging goods yet?"
"Yes president Putin, but it didn't work!"
"But we gave them Kompromat! It should have worked!"
"The Fox News found story on Clinton and GOP released memo discrediting the entire investigation!"
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53121508]You're right that the chaos within our country right now is exactly what Russia wanted from their attack, but I fail to see how apathy is a better course of action. Your mistake here is assuming that we can still foil Russia's scheme. We can't. It's already succeeded. They won this one. There is no way to avoid suffering the consequences of that this time, but we CAN still prevent a "next time." Refusing to allow the great betrayal that occurred here (and is still occurring) from going unanswered is a critical part of that. Our press is critical to defending our democracy.[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of reporting on Trump is sucking up all the oxygen in the room and not leaving space for other really important issues.
[editline]10th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=Conscript;53121608]So, can we take a similar attitude towards Islamic terrorism in the west and relent on avoiding its scheme of sowing division, calling the problem for what it is?[/QUOTE]
I don't think the media has had a problem reporting on Islamic terrorism when it happens?
[QUOTE=Conscript;53121608]So, can we take a similar attitude towards Islamic terrorism in the west and relent on avoiding its scheme of sowing division, calling the problem for what it is?[/QUOTE]
This seems really random and off topic tbh, What does this thread have to do with Islamic terrorism?, When was the last time an Islamic terrorist attack went completely unreported in the media?
Also can you please "call the problem for what it is" for me, so I can get a better idea of exactly wtf you are on about.
Imo if you believe every case of Islamic terrorism is some concerted effort by ISIS to spread discord in the west you're a gullible sucker.
[QUOTE=Splash Attack;53121010]I predict that conservative media will try to spin this as "proof" of "deep state" bias, despite them flatly refusing the information[/QUOTE]
Conservative communities, like the conservative subreddit, have taken to only posting pictures of specific parts of articles. They basically can spin everything now.
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;53121677]honestly it seems entirely within Russia's plan for Trump to get caught at this point[/QUOTE]
Would definitely ruffle a lot of Trumpster feathers, probably further polarise US politics.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53121508]You're right that the chaos within our country right now is exactly what Russia wanted from their attack, but I fail to see how apathy is a better course of action. Your mistake here is assuming that we can still foil Russia's scheme. We can't. It's already succeeded. They won this one. There is no way to avoid suffering the consequences of that this time, but we CAN still prevent a "next time." Refusing to allow the great betrayal that occurred here (and is still occurring) from going unanswered is a critical part of that. Our press is critical to defending our democracy.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but where did I suggest apathy was the solution?
As someone who regularly watches and listens to Conservative media, I'm more under the impression that the press isn't protecting our democracy, but working to undermine it.
It also doesn't help that news/polls like this pop up every so often that wind up reaffirming that narritive.
[url]http://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx[/url]
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125047]As someone who regularly watches and listens to Conservative media, I'm more under the impression that the press isn't protecting our democracy, but working to undermine it.
It also doesn't help that news/polls like this pop up every so often that wind up reaffirming that narritive.
[url]http://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]
That poll indicates nothing of the sort, and if anything proves that it's a conservative problem more than it is a media problem.
[editline]11th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE]
The divisive presidential election this year may be corroding Americans' trust and confidence in the media, particularly among Republicans who may believe the "mainstream media" are too hyperfocused on every controversial statement or policy proposal from Trump while devoting far less attention to controversies surrounding the Clinton campaign.[/QUOTE]
if by "devoting far less attention to" you mean making it the biggest news story of 2016 then yeah I guess Republicans are right :downs:
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125047]As someone who regularly watches and listens to Conservative media, I'm more under the impression that the press isn't protecting our democracy, but working to undermine it.
It also doesn't help that news/polls like this pop up every so often that wind up reaffirming that narritive.
[url]http://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]
How exactly does that poll reaffirm the narrative that the media is undermining our democracy?
You also realize as someone outside of your media bubble, you thinking that the press is out to undermine our democracy sounds full on totalitarian right?
[QUOTE=1legmidget;53125071]How exactly does that poll reaffirm the narrative that the media is undermining our democracy?
You also realize as someone outside of your media bubble, you thinking that the press is out to undermine our democracy sounds full on totalitarian right?[/QUOTE]
Wait a moment, No I don't.
Before you post a screen cap or a quote, I interpreted your response at first that you were saying I thought the media was being totalitarian. Then after a second thought, I'm thinking you're accusing me of being totalitarian.
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125079]Wait a moment, No I don't.
Before you post a screen cap or a quote, I interpreted your response at first that you were saying I thought the media was being totalitarian. Then after a second thought, I'm thinking you're accusing me of being totalitarian.[/QUOTE]
Are you going to answer the first of his questions, though?
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53125085]Are you going to answer the first of his questions, though?[/QUOTE]
in regards to question 1, I suppose I got it backwards as the poll I referenced is actually more a result of all the anti-trump news. Since I've heard reports on polls like this though out last year, I come to believe that the reason why they have their results like this is because of the perception that the media is out to undermine our democracy, Or more precisely, Undermine the recent presidential Election.
In my media bubble, The reason all the anti-trump news exists is to try to turn the nation's voters against Trump. The media wants to influence enough people to be against Trump so that even if Trump never get's impeached, he could still get voted out.
Though even if that is true, the Democrat party still has an image and messaging problem.
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125103]in regards to question 1, I suppose I got it backwards[/QUOTE]
Why yes, I'm glad you—
[QUOTE]as the poll I referenced is actually more a result of all the anti-trump news.[/QUOTE]
....oh.
[QUOTE]Though even if that is true, the Democrat party still has an image and messaging problem.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they do, what does this have to do with that?
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125103]in regards to question 1, I suppose I got it backwards as the poll I referenced is actually more a result of all the anti-trump news. Since I've heard reports on polls like this though out last year, I come to believe that the reason why they have their results like this is because of the perception that the media is out to undermine our democracy, Or more precisely, Undermine the recent presidential Election.
In my media bubble, The reason all the anti-trump news exists is to try to turn the nation's voters against Trump. The media wants to influence enough people to be against Trump so that even if Trump never get's impeached, he could still get voted out.
Though even if that is true, the Democrat party still has an image and messaging problem.[/QUOTE]
Aren't you saying the Democrat party is effectively having an image and messaging problem with a media bubble that's created by the Republican party? A bubble that specifically excludes Democrat party messaging and information?
Is it now their fault the Republicans built a bubble to attack their image and messaging by telling their news-consumers no other news source is trustworthy? What?
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53125125]Aren't you saying the Democrat party is effectively having an image and messaging problem with a media bubble that's created by the Republican party? A bubble that specifically excludes Democrat party messaging and information?[/QUOTE]
No, I'm under the impression that the problem is in both bubbles. Reasons: Hillery Clinton wanting to run in the 2020 election (Remember how she lost to Trump last time?). Chuck Shumer either getting the blame for the First shutdown earlier this year or caving to reopening it without a DACA Deal. Democrats failing to stop even the repeal of the individual Mandate in the recent Tax cuts. The passage of said tax cuts without a single democrat in favor. Nancy's comments of those cuts being "Crumbs".
Heck, I can't even really name a victory for the Democrat Party that they can even run on for the midterms this year.
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125103]in regards to question 1, I suppose I got it backwards as the poll I referenced is actually more a result of all the anti-trump news. Since I've heard reports on polls like this though out last year, I come to believe that the reason why they have their results like this is because of the perception that the media is out to undermine our democracy, Or more precisely, Undermine the recent presidential Election.
In my media bubble, The reason all the anti-trump news exists is to try to turn the nation's voters against Trump. The media wants to influence enough people to be against Trump so that even if Trump never get's impeached, he could still get voted out.
Though even if that is true, the Democrat party still has an image and messaging problem.[/QUOTE]
So in your view, criticizing Trump using facts and, more often than not, quotes he himself has made, is undermining our democracy because he happened to have won the election?
I think it's fascinating that you are cognizant that your political view exists in and is reinforced by a bubble. I almost want to give you credit for realizing how biased and tilted your perspective is.
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125136]No, I'm under the impression that the problem is in both bubbles. Reasons: Hillery Clinton wanting to run in the 2020 election (Remember how she lost to Trump last time?). Chuck Shumer either getting the blame for the First shutdown earlier this year or caving to reopening it without a DACA Deal. Democrats failing to stop even the repeal of the individual Mandate in the recent Tax cuts. The passage of said tax cuts. Nancy's comments of those cuts being "Crumbs".[/quote]
'Both bubbles' are not the same, though. I think it's disingenuous* (e: whoops) to state that the Democrats are in any way responsible for what is being reported in the 'Republican bubble'. Further, the Democrat bubble doesn't take a hardline on 'this is the only news organization that spreads the truth' so I don't think it even really counts as 'a bubble' to begin with.
[quote]Heck, I can't even really name a victory for the Democrat Party that they can even run on for the midterms this year.[/QUOTE]
Here's one: They managed to unseat(? but at the very least defeat) a pedophile in Alabama that the Republican party endorsed at all levels.
Every time the Republicans have lost that was a victory for Democrats that they can run on. Not solely on, mind, but that will buy them votes. They have full control over the government and have shut it down twice in as many months because they couldn't even function enough to pass two funding bills back to back and chose to shut the government down instead. Puerto Rico is still a disaster, children's healthcare was being used as 'political leverage', Trump called Nazis 'very fine people' ... I mean, it's practically endless. We can't even comment much about Republican legislature or policies because there's hardly any to even talk about. Most of the government remains unstaffed, on purpose, and this is all happening under the watch of Republicans. It makes for great backdrops to then go into the differences in local candidates.
You're killin' me, smalls.
[QUOTE=Glaber;53125136]No, I'm under the impression that the problem is in both bubbles. Reasons: Hillery Clinton wanting to run in the 2020 election (Remember how she lost to Trump last time?). Chuck Shumer either getting the blame for the First shutdown earlier this year or caving to reopening it without a DACA Deal. Democrats failing to stop even the repeal of the individual Mandate in the recent Tax cuts. The passage of said tax cuts without a single democrat in favor. Nancy's comments of those cuts being "Crumbs".
Heck, I can't even really name a victory for the Democrat Party that they can even run on for the midterms this year.[/QUOTE]
You're trying to connect a bunch of unrelated shit together without showing the reasoning behind how the bits are connected.
How is any of this connected to why people don't trust the media?
How is any of this connected to your idea that the media is working to undermine our democracy?
What the hell do you even mean by "the media" anyway?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;53125142]So in your view, criticizing Trump using facts and, more often than not, quotes he himself has made, is undermining our democracy because he happened to have won the election?
I think it's fascinating that you are cognizant that your political view exists in and is reinforced by a bubble. I almost want to give you credit for realizing how biased and tilted your perspective is.[/QUOTE]
Facts huh? Ok, I won't dispute it here.
Quotes, well let it not be said that anything you say can and will be used against you, regardless of tone.
But because he won the election? To my knowledge, the press had been going after Trump since before he even won the Republican Primary. Though I will admit, there are legit issues to criticize Trump on. However, certain news outlets criticizing Trump over getting 2 scoops of Ice cream or how his wife Decorated the white house for Christmas, or even other non-issue reporting like that, It makes it hard for me to take those kinds of news outlets seriously.
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