Paypal updates its policy, prevents users from joining class-action lawsuits against them. - Polidicks

[quote] [B]Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement[/B] This update to the User Agreement effective November 1, 2012 contains changes that affect how claims you and PayPal have against each other are resolved (see Disputes with PayPal below). You will, with limited exception, be required to submit claims you have against PayPal to binding and final arbitration,[B] unless you opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate (Section 14.3) by December 1, 2012. Unless you opt out: (1) you will only be permitted to pursue claims against PayPal on an individual basis, not as a plaintiff or class member in any class or representative action or proceeding and (2) you will only be permitted to seek relief (including monetary, injunctive, and declaratory relief) on an individual basis.[/B] See Disputes with PayPal below for more information. [/quote] Source: [URL]http://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/upcoming_policies_full[/URL]

What a dick move.

I don't understand how that is legal.

Someone should sue them Oh wait

Well this won't work well in the EU.

From what I understand, it says you can't sue [I]AS A GROUP[/I]. Individuals seeking personal reimbursement can still do that.

sue paypal over this, oh wait

So is PayPal taking a cue from Valve or what?

Didn't valve already do this with steam, and it failed in germany or something?

I don't think you can relinquish someones legal rights with a contract.. Correct me if I'm wrong?

i think paypal shouldnt be allowed to do that because they are dicks in general anyway. they take away peoples money randomly and close their accounts and never reply when you demand an explanation by email.

[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;37908346]I don't think you can relinquish someones legal rights with a contract.. Correct me if I'm wrong?[/QUOTE] Depends on the country. Some legal systems prevent you from relinquishing certain rights. For example, it's illegal to sign a contract that states you are legal property or an indentured servant. In the EU, this EULA would probably be deemed illegal. In the US, it might be considered legal.

[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;37908346]I don't think you can relinquish someones legal rights with a contract.. Correct me if I'm wrong?[/QUOTE] I think you're right. I believe Blizzard got in trouble for things in their EULA that are against the rights of U.S. WoW subscribers

[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;37908346]I don't think you can relinquish someones legal rights with a contract.. Correct me if I'm wrong?[/QUOTE] Only if you're the devil, or an american lawyer.

I think there should a law put in place that prevents companies from doing things like this in their policy agreements, it should be clear and to the point too.

[QUOTE=Buck.;37908345]Didn't valve already do this with steam, and it failed in germany or something?[/QUOTE] Tons and tons of others did as well. Valve was just bandwagoning. Sony had bad timing when they tried it. Specifically screwing up because they did it after being sued for not warning people about the fact that their CC info on people was logged. :v:

To be fair, they probably did this for the same reason as Valve, so they can avoid people who sue them to make a quick buck.

I still hold a grudge against this rule

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37908762]To be fair, they probably did this for the same reason as Valve, so they can avoid people who sue them to make a quick buck.[/QUOTE] Class action lawsuits are never a "quick buck". They always take ages and cost a lot of money for both parties involved. What sucks about them is that the people that are actually suing the company rarely get much out of it; most of it goes to the lawyers and the rest is distributed to a large amount of people.

[QUOTE=elfbarf;37908907]Class action lawsuits are never a "quick buck". They always take ages and cost a lot of money for both parties involved. What sucks about them is that the people that are actually suing the company rarely get much out of it; most of it goes to the lawyers and the rest is distributed to a large amount of people.[/QUOTE] i've always wanted my 2 cents back from paypal for violating my rights

I'm fairly certain that this wouldn't hold up in most courts.

[QUOTE=Buck.;37908345]Didn't valve already do this with steam, and it failed in germany or something?[/QUOTE] Wasn't valve's addition to the ToS that you can't sue if they already fixxed or are busy fixing the problem you are sueing for? (IE: sue for downtime.)

[QUOTE=sk8rboi;37908294]I don't understand how that is legal.[/QUOTE] It isn't (well it is, but won't be enforced). ToS are some of the lowest in the hierarchy, if laws or rights say anything against this (which in most countries they do) these ToS go right out the window. No judge will grant any company a immunity to being sued because the ToS say so.

FYI Steam, Origin and all these programs have that too.

Dreamspark added it as well. EDIT: Maybe not dreamspark specifically, but MS has definitely added something to that effect. [quote=Microsoft]We've updated the Microsoft Services Agreement, which governs many of our online services - including your Microsoft account and many of our online products and services for consumers, such as Hotmail, SkyDrive, Bing, MSN, Office.com, Windows Live Messenger, Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Movie Maker, Windows Mail Desktop, and Windows Writer. Please read over the new Microsoft Services Agreement here to familiarize yourself with the changes we've made. The updated agreement will take effect on October 19, 2012. If you continue to use our services after October 19th, you agree to the terms of the new agreement or, of course you can cancel your service at any time. We have modified the agreement to make it easier to read and understand, including using a question and answer format that we believe makes the terms much clearer. We also clarified how Microsoft uses your content to better protect consumers and improve our products, including aligning our usage to the way we're designing our cloud services to be highly integrated across many Microsoft products. We realize you may have personal conversations and store personal files using our products, and we want you to know that we prioritize your privacy. [B]Finally, we have added a binding arbitration clause and class action waiver that affects how disputes with Microsoft will be resolved in the United States.[/B] Thank you for using Microsoft products and services! [/quote] This whole fiasco started after that one idiotic ruling. Now we have precedent, and everyone is doing it. Seriously want to see this shit overturned. It's essentially declaring yourself immune to the law.

[QUOTE=kimr120;37908374]Only if you're the devil, or an american lawyer.[/QUOTE] Wait, there's a difference?

[QUOTE=Trainbike;37909067]I'm fairly certain that this wouldn't hold up in most courts.[/QUOTE] This. It would very easily be tossed if someone who had a case against PayPal had a very strong case. Any policy can be argued out of place by a good lawyer and a solid case.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37909234] It's essentially declaring yourself immune to the law.[/QUOTE] I don't think you can actually do that... Class-action lawsuits are large suits which take lots of time and money with small reimbursements. You can still individually sue... Or that's what the rest of the thread says. I am no expert and probably no one else here is.

Fuck paypal anyways. Not sure why anyone would trust it.

I already stopped using Paypal and deleted my account over a year ago for their treatment of indie developers who only wanted to [url=http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10/09/enemy-known-xenonauts-vs-paypal/]sell pre-orders[/url] and [url=http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/paypal-freezes-regretsys-account-for-needy-children/]charities offering physical incentives.[/url] Fuck that company.