Watch Paint Dry: How someone got a game on the Steam Store without anyone from Valve ever looking at
44 replies, posted
[QUOTE]If you were on the Steam homepage on Sunday night, you might have noticed a somewhat interesting new title available: “Watch paint dry”. This sparked a lot of controversy (and I, honestly, had a little bit of fun in the forum :p) on Steam as people were claiming that Valve/Steam had lost all quality control for games on Greenlight. But this game was never on Greenlight. In fact, I haven’t even paid the [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/app/219820/"]$100 “no time wasters fee”[/URL] to post games to Greenlight. I think Greenlight personally is a great platform for people to get their indie games a lot of exposure and it has done and will continue to make working as an indie game developer a viable career option. And I’d like to apologise if I’ve caused any offense to indie game developers who are struggling to get their games on to steam. This is no more than a prank and was merely to test something I’ve been trying to report to Valve for the past few months — the ability to get any game you want on Steam, without Valve ever even having a look at it. This is an already outdated guide as Valve have fixed these issues, but if you were to travel back in time then this is a definitive guide on how to release your game! Just another quick note, this is nothing to do with the film censorship protest- I only found out about that today, this doesn’t have as much “meaning” behind it.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://medium.com/@rubiimeow/watch-paint-dry-how-i-got-a-game-on-the-steam-store-without-anyone-from-valve-ever-looking-at-it-2e476858c753#.utm3fr1df"]Source[/URL] goes more into detail.
Frankly, these kind of basic exploits should not be happening on an application of this scale.
That's just sad on Valve's part.
Your telling me watching paint dry, the most rivating RPG to date was a joke!?
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;50029077]That's just sad on Valve's part.[/QUOTE]
Idk, the hardest part (and the one left out) was getting into valve's publishing system to begin with, they never expected a dev to fuck about with the client after that
Although it wasn't a QC issue and more of a technical exploit, I hope this ramps up both on Valve's part.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50029088]Your telling me watching paint dry, the most rivating RPG to date was a joke!?
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
Idk, the hardest part (and the one left out) was getting into valve's publishing system to begin with, they never expected a dev to fuck about with the client after that[/QUOTE]
Yeah, basically it was a dev exploiting a system they had been given privileges to.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/d4Cto2f.png[/t]
Neat. Kudos to the people that now hold very rare collector's items.
[quote]
I tried contact Valve about these but didn’t get a response. Eventually, nearing April, I decided to use the “untitled app” for an April Fools prank to try and get Valve’s attention about the issues.[/quote]
That was a very cool read but this part kind of stood out as being kind of sad. It's not the first time people have had to exploit things to get Valve's attention towards fixing something, is it?
Valve is merely a husk of what it once was at this point
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50029127]That was a very cool read but this part kind of stood out as being kind of sad. It's not the first time people have had to exploit things to get Valve's attention towards fixing something, is it?[/QUOTE]
Certainly not. I remember there being a similar case with the Euro Truck Simulator 2 devs, where them pointing out an exploit, which I believe just let them have animated images in the store/update descriptions, lead to a 1-year community ban and loss of Steam partnership.
Edit:
Nevermind. It was some kind of javascript exploit that allowed people to inject scripts, which potentially allowed developers to leak vulnerable information from the users just by loading the page? :V
Apparently they had also tried to reach out to Valve, with little success, which ended up with them using the code to play Harlem Shake to get their attention.
[QUOTE=mcgrath618;50029133]Valve is merely a husk of what it once was at this point[/QUOTE]
Well no shit they aren't a middle sized game developer anymore, they maintain the largest international games distribution network, run most of the largest esports out there, manage hundreds of millions in virtual and real transactions, and are pushing the bleeding edge in VR, ya if they aren't making hl games anymore it's sad but it's not like they're dying, nobody predicted a little DRM tool like steam would become the gargantuan it is now
[QUOTE=Sableye;50029158]Well no shit they aren't a middle sized game developer anymore, they maintain the largest international games distribution network, run most of the largest esports out there, manage hundreds of millions in virtual and real transactions, and are pushing the bleeding edge in VR, ya if they aren't making hl games anymore it's sad but it's not like they're dying, [B]nobody predicted a little DRM tool like steam would become the gargantuan it is now[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, but that's why a company adjusts itself to cope, but valve have been taking this hands off 'approach' for a very long time. They refuse to take responsibility for what they have created.
I don't get it. Is valve using "it's not public and used by serious people so let's pretend no one is going to hack this" approach? This is freaking basics of web development - never trust the user.
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;50029179]Yeah, but that's why a company adjusts itself to cope, but valve have been taking this hands off 'approach' for a very long time. They refuse to take responsibility for what they have created.[/QUOTE]
[quote]This is an already outdated guide as Valve have fixed these issues, [/quote]
also yep they have been refusing all responsibility for the platform they created by maintaining its servers and keeping it up for millions of people round the clock with daily sales and seasonal events with regular client updates
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;50029179]Yeah, but that's why a company adjusts itself to cope, but valve have been taking this hands off 'approach' for a very long time. They refuse to take responsibility for what they have created.[/QUOTE]
Valve is the submissive parent who's cute little child grew up into a raging neckbeard who lives in their basement. They know it's there, they say they love it, but they try and ignore it's existence as much as they possibly can
[quote]people were claiming that Valve/Steam had lost all quality control for games on Greenlight[/quote]
can't lose something you never had
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50029127]That was a very cool read but this part kind of stood out as being kind of sad. It's not the first time people have had to exploit things to get Valve's attention towards fixing something, is it?[/QUOTE]
Seems to be a regular occurrence with Valve. They seem somewhat complacent with their security, assuming it's not going to actually fail them. Not the greatest stance to take, especially considering the Steam client has always been fairly janky anyway.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50029416]Seems to be a regular occurrence with Valve. They seem somewhat complacent with their security, assuming it's not going to actually fail them. Not the greatest stance to take, especially considering the Steam client has always been fairly janky anyway.[/QUOTE]
Definitely. You'd be surprised how many systems big and small have exploits like this ranging in severity simply because they put too much trust in clients sending form data/requests. It's childs play really, anyone with a little bit of technical knowledge can use browser plugins like Request Maker to tamper with and resend requests, as well as snoop around Javascript code and test the waters by calling functions with bogus data.
Lazy beta signup forms are my favourite, because you can usually just capture the request then use something like Gmail's alias system to spam 50-100 signups in a matter of seconds/minutes, then watch the keys flood in down the line.
When I was curious about the seating planner for iSeries (UK's biggest lan), I snooped around and found that with a line of JS you can expose the names, DOB and emails of the hundreds/thousands of people that were seated. Idk if they know its possible, but I can imagine it's a little bit of an issue regarding data protection.
with the quality of games being added on steam I'd rather believe they used the bug rather than it being actually approved
[QUOTE=Mr.Moustachio;50029769]with the quality of games being added on steam I'd rather believe they used the bug rather than it being actually approved[/QUOTE]
It's true but do greenlit games work in the same way? (Because a lot of shit games are greenlit)
if not it all depends on how he got the steamworks account in the first place.
[QUOTE=Grandzeit;50029107][t]http://i.imgur.com/d4Cto2f.png[/t]
Neat. Kudos to the people that now hold very rare collector's items.[/QUOTE]
all of the emotes/trading cards have been removed from the inventories of the people that had them, which is for the best tbh because only the main dev and his circle of friends had any keys in the first place
plus he had like 20 of each emote in his inventory, which could easily be worth hundreds of dollars due to the rarity
[QUOTE=Jelman;50029789](Because a lot of shit games are greenlit)[/QUOTE]
That's an issue in the fact that to get past the basic approval system, all your greenlight page needs is a hilariously small 400-500 votes. That's basically the entire reason terrible games get past the greenlight phase.
[QUOTE=ubersoldier;50029853]That's an issue in the fact that to get past the basic approval system, all your greenlight page needs is a hilariously small 400-500 votes. That's basically the entire reason terrible games get past the greenlight phase.[/QUOTE]
then why are people giving valve shit for this?
if the process is entirely automated and depends on the community, what role does valve play here that makes them a shitty company if all they did was provide a platform to publish and profit off of indie games
it's not valve's fault the majority of the community is willing to back shit games
i've seen several people blame valve for "opening the floodgates" when it was the community that turned those floodgates into floods of shit instead of floods of good games
[QUOTE=Melnek;50030101]then why are people giving valve shit for this?
if the process is entirely automated and depends on the community, what role does valve play here that makes them a shitty company if all they did was provide a platform to publish and profit off of indie games
it's not valve's fault the majority of the community is willing to back shit games
i've seen several people blame valve for "opening the floodgates" when it was the community that turned those floodgates into floods of shit instead of floods of good games[/QUOTE]
Because it [B]is[/B] Valve's fault since they keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, they trust their userbase with moderation so they don't have to do it themselves.
People are shit, they will upvote garbage on greenlight just because "ha ha look at me upvoting this shitty game jokingly I'm so funny", it's Valve's fault for not having any sort of safeguards to prevent this kind of shit. And that's besides how much of a shitshow people have to cause to get Valve to take a look when a developer goes rogue and decides to fuck over it's customers by blatantly dropping development of their "game" when it gives out enough revenue. Valve is just absolutely naive to trust people with this kind of shit.
If car companies produced cars that didn't require keys to use, you wouldn't bitch at "people" if it got stolen, you'd bitch at the car company for believing that every human being is rational and trustable.
[QUOTE=Melnek;50030101]then why are people giving valve shit for this?
if the process is entirely automated and depends on the community, what role does valve play here that makes them a shitty company if all they did was provide a platform to publish and profit off of indie games
it's not valve's fault the majority of the community is willing to back shit games
i've seen several people blame valve for "opening the floodgates" when it was the community that turned those floodgates into floods of shit instead of floods of good games[/QUOTE]
This is a good point, however you could say that Valve shouldn't give that much power to the community in the first place or at the very least, have final decision
I don't know, I find Valve's attitude towards the Steam community a bit weird - like they keep implementing restrictions/measures with trading but also us give us a lot of power with Greenlight
[QUOTE=Melnek;50030101]then why are people giving valve shit for this?
if the process is entirely automated and depends on the community, what role does valve play here that makes them a shitty company if all they did was provide a platform to publish and profit off of indie games
it's not valve's fault the majority of the community is willing to back shit games
i've seen several people blame valve for "opening the floodgates" when it was the community that turned those floodgates into floods of shit instead of floods of good games[/QUOTE]
They're too trusting in the community
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50030220]This is a good point, however you could say that Valve shouldn't give that much power to the community in the first place or at the very least, have final decision
I don't know, I find Valve's attitude towards the Steam community a bit weird - like [b]they keep implementing restrictions/measures with trading but also us give us a lot of power with Greenlight[/b][/QUOTE]
And this is another thing I find ridiculous, they completely trust their userbase with greenlight yet they have the audacity to keep plastering restrictions and making you jump through many hoops just to use trading properly, and I don't even want to start on their frustrating mandatory link filter that completely removes blacklisted links and their dumb external website confirmation page whenever you click any link whatsoever you were sent through chat.
Just what kind of priorities does Valve even have to care more about people getting conned out of their virtual items than people buying into a greenlight game that was basically a cash grab.
[QUOTE=Gamaz;50030335]
Just what kind of priorities does Valve even have to care more about people getting conned out of their virtual items than people buying into a greenlight game that was basically a cash grab.[/QUOTE]
credit card fraud
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50030220]This is a good point, however you could say that Valve shouldn't give that much [B]power[/B] to the community in the first place or at the very least, have final decision
I don't know, I find Valve's attitude towards the Steam community a bit weird - like they keep implementing restrictions/measures with trading but also us give us a lot of [B]power[/B] with Greenlight[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;50030287]They're too [B]trusting[/B] in the community[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gamaz;50030335]And this is another thing I find ridiculous, they completely [B]trust[/B] their userbase with greenlight yet they have the audacity to keep plastering restrictions and making you jump through many hoops just to use trading properly, and I don't even want to start on their frustrating mandatory link filter that completely removes blacklisted links and their dumb external website confirmation page whenever you click any link whatsoever you were sent through chat.
Just what kind of priorities does Valve even have to care more about people getting conned out of their virtual items than people buying into a greenlight game that was basically a cash grab.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's about power or trust, I think it's about being lazy and getting the community to generate money for them. Anything that makes them profit is fine no matter how sloppy it is. Anything that threatens profit has to go asap, no time for tact. The less effort they have to put into it, the better.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50029158]Well no shit they aren't a middle sized game developer anymore, they maintain the largest international games distribution network, run most of the largest esports out there, manage hundreds of millions in virtual and real transactions, and are pushing the bleeding edge in VR, ya if they aren't making hl games anymore it's sad but it's not like they're dying, nobody predicted a little DRM tool like steam would become the gargantuan it is now[/QUOTE]
And they do all that with more or less the same number of employees as they had when all they did was make HL2, and refuse to invest and hire new people for QA or consumer service.
[QUOTE=Gamaz;50030191]Because it [B]is[/B] Valve's fault since they keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, they trust their userbase with moderation so they don't have to do it themselves.
People are shit, they will upvote garbage on greenlight just because "ha ha look at me upvoting this shitty game jokingly I'm so funny", it's Valve's fault for not having any sort of safeguards to prevent this kind of shit. And that's besides how much of a shitshow people have to cause to get Valve to take a look when a developer goes rogue and decides to fuck over it's customers by blatantly dropping development of their "game" when it gives out enough revenue. Valve is just absolutely naive to trust people with this kind of shit.
If car companies produced cars that didn't require keys to use, you wouldn't bitch at "people" if it got stolen, you'd bitch at the car company for believing that every human being is rational and trustable.[/QUOTE]
okay? and?
so people upvote shit games, so the shit games get greenlit
how does this affect you personally
how does this paint valve as a company that dodges responsibility
how does having shit games on steam store in any way hinder anything
assume a scenario that a dev fucks off with the money and doesn't deliver like you said, well you see it's entirely your fault for not doing your research before backing a product. how is valve supposed to be accountable for your stupidity or shortsightedness? again, they merely established the platform, it's up to the community itself to figure it out and it should not in any way be expected of valve to moderate it
think about it for a second, because it's a pretty airtight moral argument (as well as a legal one). they have no obligation to refund you money for a product (that doesnt even belong to them) you voluntarily invested in.
your analogy doesn't even make sense.
[editline]30th March 2016[/editline]
to be honest it seems like valve set this greenlit thing up with reasonable expectations, and then the community collectively decided to show how gullible and dumb they are by literally taking a shit, rolling in it, and then demanding valve to clean everything up
valve saw this, and instead of getting neck deep into this mess, decided to back away and let the community sort itself out, which is the only reasonable course of action. they were smart enough to create a legally airtight defense beforehand because again, the products that fuck people over don't even legally belong to them, they just exist on their platform.
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