• Quebec Independence Movement
    167 replies, posted
Most of you have probably heard about Quebec nationalism at some point in your life, even if you aren't Canadian. This is the first thread of a collection of threads I will post at some point in the future regarding separatist movements around the world. So, I have spent quite some time researching the Quebec independence movement, as well as other movements. Canada has had several referendums asking the people if they think Quebec should become independent, and every time the majority of the people have said no. Personally I am against the independence movement, since the facts simply don't support Quebec's movement, and they wouldn't be self-sufficient. I do however recognize that the culture of Quebec is different from that of the rest of Canada. [b]Arguments for Independence[/b] * In Quebec the official language is French, whereas the rest of Canada speaks English * The goals and policies of the rest of Canada do not necessarily always align with those of Quebec * Quebec's French culture is dying and arguably without independence or autonomy, it will eventually become like the rest of Canada * Many separatists in Quebec feel as though the Canadian government didn't live up to it's promise for a new constitution in 1970 * Some websites recognize Quebec's distinct cultural differences from Canada, such as how Yahoo! has both Canadian and Quebecker Yahoo! Answers websites [b]Arguments Against Independence[/b] * Quebec already maintains a degree of autonomy as a province of Canada * The French language is dying out in Quebec and being replaced with English * The withdrawal of Quebec from Canada could significantly hinder Canada's political, economic, and military strength * The majority of the population of Quebec don't support independence or autonomy * Terrorism committed by pro-independence guerrilla factions drives people away from supporting Quebec sovereignty * If Quebec became independent, it would create a barrier in the middle of Canada, separating Eastern Canada and Western Canada * It is questionable whether or not Quebec could be economically self-sufficient without the aid of Canada * Quebec has no pre-existing constitution or framework for government * Quebec is made up of many different ethnic groups, and an independent French-speaking Quebec could easily abuse minorities * Historically speaking, the former French government of Quebec often ignored, suppressed, and mistreated the aboriginal population * Many of the leaders of the separatist movement are discriminatory against the aboriginal population, including the former leader of Quebec, Robert Bourassa * Many aboriginal tribes in Canada have expressed concerns regarding Quebec sovereignty, and some have even threatened to leave the confederacy * The ideas on how an independent Quebec should be governed are very different, with many different parties and organizations, each with different ideological idea on what the future of Quebec should be. Many of the groups are far-left communist groups, while others are center-right and far right.. [b]General Information[/b] Proposed State: Quebec Proposed Capital: Quebec City Today Part of: Canada (Quebec) Government: various Population: 7,970,672 (5.63 /km2 density) Land: 1,365,128 km2 land + 176,928 km2 water GDP: C$303,747 billion (C$37,278 per capita) Language: French Culture: Canadian, French Religion: Catholic Denonym: Québécois, Quebecers/Quebeckers [b]Political Parties[/b] [url=http://www.pq.org/]Parti Québécois[/url] [url=http://www.blocquebecois.org/]Bloc Québécois[/url] [url=http://www.adq.qc.ca/]Action démocratique du Québec[/url] [url=http://www.quebecsolidaire.net/]Québec solidaire[/url] [url=http://www.partirq.qc.ca/]Parti république du Québec[/url] (defunct) Parti républicain du Québec (defunct) Parti nationaliste du Québec (defunct) Ralliement national (defunct) Mouvement Souveraineté-Association (defunct) Parti indépendantiste (defunct) Parti indépendantiste of 1985 (defunct) Parti canadien (defunct) Parti canadien of 1942 (defunct) [b]Paramilitary Organizations[/b] [url=http://www.mlnq.org/]Mouvement de libération nationale du Québec[/url] Société des Fils de la Liberté (defunct) Front de libération du Québec (defunct) Frères chasseurs (defunct) [b]Other Organizations[/b] [url=http://www.ipsoquebec.org/]Les Intellectuels pour la souveraineté[/url] [url=http://www.resistancequebecoise.org/]Réseau de Résistance du Québécois[/url] [url=http://www.mnq.qc.ca/]Mouvement national des Québécoises et des Québécois[/url] [url=http://www.ssjb.com/]Saint-Jean-Baptiste Society[/url] Alliance laurentienne (defunct) [b]Links[/b] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quebec_sovereignty_movement[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_nationalism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_autonomism[/url] [b]Flag[/b] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Flag_of_Quebec.svg/400px-Flag_of_Quebec.svg.png[/img] [b]Coat of Arms[/b] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Coat_of_arms_of_Qu%C3%A9bec.svg/400px-Coat_of_arms_of_Qu%C3%A9bec.svg.png[/img] [b]Map[/b] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Qu%C3%A9bec%2C_Canada.svg/400px-Qu%C3%A9bec%2C_Canada.svg.png[/img]
Never gonna happen. Honestly, they aren't self sufficient and would have a super hard time being recognized by the international community. You know how many "states" have seceded from the union in the US? Of course you don't, because they've never succeeded.
I dont know what to think about this...
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[QUOTE=Uberman77883;30169997]Never gonna happen. Honestly, they aren't self sufficient and would have a super hard time being recognized by the international community. You know how many "states" have seceded from the union in the US? Of course you don't, because they've never succeeded.[/QUOTE] Several areas have tried over the course of the past couple hundred years. Then again, Canada is a bit different than America. If you try to secede from America, you're going to have to deal with the US military, whereas I suspect that Canada would be a little less militaristic about it.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;30169997] You know how many "states" have seceded from the union in the US? Of course you don't, because they've never succeeded.[/QUOTE] confederacy? They did succeed... then was defeated by the union.
[QUOTE=areolop;30170040]confederacy? They did succeed... then was defeated by the union.[/QUOTE] So they basically didn't really succeed, did they?
This shit again? C'mon Quebec, I thought we were bros.
[QUOTE=Squall;30170070]So they basically didn't really succeed, did they?[/QUOTE] They succeeded in seceding, they didn't succeed in the war they started because of the Union transporting supplies. Also I support Quebec seceding as the more countries there are in the world, the better. My reasoning behind that is if you didn't like your country's laws you have more options to choose from. [quote]Arguments for Independence * In Quebec the official language is French, whereas the rest of Canada speaks English[/quote] What kind of shitty reason is that anyway? [quote]* Quebec's French culture is dying and arguably without independence or autonomy, it will eventually become like the rest of Canada[/quote] Boo-hoo your poor culture. Practice it in your homes dumbasses.
Nearly all the Bloc Quebecois MPs are out of parliament anyway, so I just don't see the point.
Quebec trying to be its own country is almost as bad as the natives who are still butthurt about how we tricked them over 200 years ago.
[QUOTE=Snail562;30170097]They succeeded in seceding, they didn't succeed in the war they started because of the Union transporting supplies.[/QUOTE] If you declare war and immediately after wards get your ass kicked in a war, whilst not being internationally recognized by any sovereign state, I would say that it was unsuccessful. But that's just my perspective, I respect yours.
[QUOTE=Squall;30170033]Several areas have tried over the course of the past couple hundred years. Then again, Canada is a bit different than America. If you try to secede from America, you're going to have to deal with the US military, whereas I suspect that Canada would be a little less militaristic about it.[/QUOTE] Actually you are wrong. Today, the North and South would be completely different countries if the south remained peaceful. The Confederacy was in secession for several weeks before Fort Sumpter, where the south declared war on the north and attacked a union fort. You can perfectly secede from the US, you just won't get recognition.
I didn't even know Quebec had a independence movement. This is insightful.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;30170141]Actually you are wrong. Today, the North and South would be completely different countries if the south remained peaceful. The Confederacy was in secession for several weeks before Fort Sumpter, where the south declared war on the north and attacked a union fort. You can perfectly secede from the US, you just won't get recognition.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I forgot. But sometimes if you try to secede the police will arrest you and call you crazy. That's happened to a few micronations.
Quebec was one of the original 3 Canadian provinces anyway, how bad would it look for quebec to just blow us off?
It would be pretty cool to be independent, we wouldn't have to cope with Stephen Harper anymore at least.
[QUOTE=Tark;30170142]I didn't even know Quebec had a independence movement. This is insightful.[/QUOTE] Which is one of the reasons why I made this thread, to both inform people of it, as well as providing an interesting discussion. Hopefully there are a few Facepunchers from Quebec who will share their point of view. I think you'll find that in most countries there is an independence movement of some sort, most of the time it's just a small group of people who peacefully demonstrate however, not a full blown guerrilla force. Unfortunately Quebec has a guerrilla force that terrorizes Canadian civilians and politicians alike to try and win over independence.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;30170141]Actually you are wrong. Today, the North and South would be completely different countries if the south remained peaceful. The Confederacy was in secession for several weeks before Fort Sumpter, where the south declared war on the north and attacked a union fort. You can perfectly secede from the US, you just won't get recognition.[/QUOTE] THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN
Quebecois are the worst! Well, the french Quebecois. " HURR DURR DRINK ALCOHOL, SMOKE WEED, BECOME OWN COUNTRY, TABARNAK HOCKEY ! " Idiots don't seem to comprehend that Quebec seperating itself from Canada is a lot of fucking work. They think it's just " Oh hey we're not with you Canada, go fuck yourself. ", sign a few papers, and now they're their own country. Sadly I live here, but hey, livin' in a Native Reserve is all good. :smug:
That's almost as stupid as having Alaska belong to a different country than the one it's attached to.
[QUOTE=Squall;30170289]Unfortunately Quebec has a guerrilla force that terrorizes Canadian civilians and politicians alike to try and win over independence.[/QUOTE] No, we don't have a "guerrilla force that terrorizes Canadian civilians" anymore. We used to have one, but now it's all friendly politics really.
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;30170347]That's almost as stupid as having Alaska belong to a different country than the one it's attached to.[/QUOTE] You do realize Alaska isn't the only state not attached to the US, right?
Actually that Guerilla force is well.. Ever go take a walk on St-Jean Baptiste day? ( [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Holiday_(Quebec)] St-Jean Baptiste Day [/url] ) Jesus christ, the Quebecois walking around with flags yelling shit and acting all crazy. :sigh: ..
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;30170353]No, we don't have a "guerrilla force that terrorizes Canadian civilians". We used to have one, but now it's all friendly politics really.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.mlnq.org/[/url]
[QUOTE=Squall;30170377]You do realize Alaska isn't the only state not attached to the US, right?[/QUOTE] Yes, I never implied otherwise.
[QUOTE=Squall;30170403][url]http://www.mlnq.org/[/url][/QUOTE] Holy shit that site terrorizes me, because it's fucking terribly made. But, there are no serious guerrilla groups that did any serious threats to any Canadians for independence recently.
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;30170353]No, we don't have a "guerrilla force that terrorizes Canadian civilians" anymore. We used to have one, but now it's all friendly politics really.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss95/animalswithlightsabers/gorillas-fightingls01.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Squall;30170289]Unfortunately Quebec has a guerrilla force that terrorizes Canadian civilians and politicians alike to try and win over independence.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really call them a "guerrilla" force since their last attack was pretty much buying Canadian flags at a dollar store and... stomping them in front of the parliament :v: If we did get independence, it would be mostly symbolic. The cost related to making our own money would be disastrous for our economy so we'd have to keep using the CAD$. Our military is Canadian (duh), we'd need some kind of policy with Ottawa for their bases currently on our territory on top of asking for protection since we no longer have a millitary (not like anyone would attack us). We can't really move Quebec from its current position so the "english invasion" every politician is talking about wouldn't be prevented. A big waste of money and time for a worthless paper that says we're a separate country.
[QUOTE=Squall;30170159]Oh yeah, I forgot. But sometimes if you try to secede the police will arrest you and call you crazy. That's happened to a few micronations.[/QUOTE] A few, some like Forgotonia ( a real micronation I shit you not, in southwest Illinois) are literally just forgotten.
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