America's police are looking more and more like the military; program transfers military-grade weapo - Polidicks

[quote]America's streets are looking more and more like a war zone. Last week, in a small county in upstate New York with a population of roughly 120,000 people, county legislators approved the receipt of a 20-ton Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle, donated by the US Defense Department to the county sheriff. Between the Armored Personnel Carriers locking down main streets in major American cities – mimicking our MRAPs in Afghanistan – or Special Weapons and Tactics (Swat) and Special Forces units canvassing our country, if we're not careful, this militarization of our domestic policing will make-over America, and fast. Here's how it all happened. A little-known Pentagon program has been quietly militarizing American police forces for years. A total of $4.2bn worth of equipment has been distributed by the Defense Department to municipal law enforcement agencies, with a record $546m in 2012 alone. In the fine print of the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 1997, the "1033 program" was born. It allows the Defense Department to donate surplus military equipment to local police forces. Though the program's existed since the 1990s, it has expanded greatly in recent years, due, in part, to post-9/11 fears and sequestration budget cuts. The expanse, however, seems unnecessary given that the Department of Homeland Security has already handed out $34bn in "terrorism grants" to local polices forces – without oversight mind you – to fund counter-terrorism efforts. Additional militarization, then, deserves congressional attention as the program is harmful and must be scaled back for a number of reasons. [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/10/4/1380897384815/US-Paramilitary-police-sw-002.jpg[/img][/quote] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/07/militarization-local-police-america[/url]

And in many ways, most cops are still under powered compared to the sheer volume of weapons that can be found within private citizen hands. Half of the tactics used by SWAT are because they're trying to protect their own lives during a raid. Up until the 1990s, most police forces didn't even have the semi-automatic rifles or body protection that they do now. Most still don't, the consistent fear of the 'militarization' is merely them picking up equipment that's run its shelf life and is usually severe downgrades to current standards. Its riot and swat gear being grabbed. The regular police officer doesn't wear half the shit people freak out about because its bulky and gets in the way.

I'm so glad to have legislation that defines America as a perpetual warzone. God bless our overlords, may their gracious benevolence forever shield us from the subhuman terrorist scum that will always be a threat to our liberty BECAUSE ANYONE NOT AMERICAN IS JEALOUS AND THERE'S NO OTHER REASON.

I was hoping they would be equipped with roman legionnaire stuff like Emperor Scorpius's icon.

[QUOTE=tr00per7;42455199]I was hoping they would be equipped with roman legionnaire stuff like Emperor Scorpius's icon.[/QUOTE] I think i'd just give up if the Roman army came busting down my door

[QUOTE=SoaringFallus;42455175]I'm so glad to have legislation that defines America as a perpetual warzone. God bless our overlords, may their gracious benevolence forever shield us from the subhuman terrorist scum that will always be a threat to our liberty BECAUSE ANYONE NOT AMERICAN IS JEALOUS AND THERE'S NO OTHER REASON.[/QUOTE] That has absolutely nothing to do with the article.

And its not quiet little program, it caused a lot of problems back when it was enacted. Any time SWAT teams get a personnel carrier, you have people flipping shit and pointing this damn program.

Oh man that image ahaha. Waiting for that one guy to come in and start saying America is a police state

[QUOTE=Jackald;42455243]Oh man, cops don't even have semi automatic rifles?! How do they cope!?!?[/QUOTE] Very horribely when they acutally needed them. The lack of body armor and semi-automatic rifles is what lead to [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrlUsaYlKPs"]Los Angeles cops during a bank raid[/URL] getting completely gun downed by an automatic AK74. Their 9mm pistols did literally nothing against the body armor being used. Then there was the father son duo who gunned down a cop after running him over with a semi automatic AK varient around the early 2000s.

I'm fine with SWAT and crisis response teams having body armor and assault rifles. Their job is to deal with high-danger situations, where active shooters may be involved, and they need the tools to do it. It's when the regular police start arming [i]and behaving[/i] like SWAT during normal day-to-day policework that there is cause for concern.

Course, no one wants to admit that cops need body armor even though civilians can get their hands on Semi-Automatic rifles that fire standard intermediate cartridges that the military also uses rather easily. Its not like that's a thing at all. Because that totally doesn't happen, ever.

[QUOTE=Jackald;42455243]Oh man, cops don't even have semi automatic rifles?! How do they cope!?!?[/QUOTE] I would insult you vehemently, but it would be a disservice to the officers that have died in the line of duty. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQXXcFmMVNE[/url] Before this, US police officers were generally armed with .38 revolvers and shotguns besides hunting rifles. [QUOTE=Octavius;42455418]I can understand the need for better equipment in general, but I think an MRAP could possibly be overdoing it unless they thiik the criminals they are after will have some nice explosives to fight em with.[/QUOTE] Did you miss what happened in Boston recently? Any criminal group can do that in terms of offense against police. It just doesn't happen ever.

I can understand the need for better equipment in general, but I think a MRAP could possibly be overdoing it unless they think the criminals they are after will have some nice explosives to fight em with.

In the case of using military vehicles I'd say it's a good thing since they're probably saving money by not buying new "non-military" vehicles. And I'm pretty sure that the truck is delivered without a .50 cal machine gun attached.

Remember how they kept giving the military all those tanks they didn't need.. ..It wouldn't surprise me if you saw some rolling about.

stupid ass article is using a picture of the boston police in their SWAT gear looking for dzokhar tsarnaev

[QUOTE=bizzycola;42455508]Remember how they kept giving the military all those tanks they didn't need.. ..It wouldn't surprise me if you saw some rolling about.[/QUOTE] Those are probably in one of the many military scrap yards or being used by a third world nation.

[QUOTE=Octavius;42455418]I can understand the need for better equipment in general, but I think a MRAP could possibly be overdoing it unless they think the criminals they are after will have some nice explosives to fight em with.[/QUOTE] SWAT teams often keep an armored vehicle around for approaching areas that have entrenched armed suspects. They are also often used for breaching, either by simply driving through an obstacle, or hooking a chain to the side of a building and simply ripping part of the building out. The fact that it is resistant to explosives is really just because most armored wheeled vehicles in the military are resistant to explosives these days.

[QUOTE=Aspen;42455511]stupid ass article is using a picture of the boston police in their SWAT gear looking for dzokhar tsarnaev[/QUOTE] Yeah, 4 Agencies, hundreds of agents and equipment, as well as martial law for a 19 year old. Great precedent.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;42455564]Yeah, 4 Agencies, hundreds of agents and equipment, as well as martial law for a 19 year old. Great precedent.[/QUOTE] Precedent that's been done before, and before that and before that. There was also the suspension of habeas corpus.

[QUOTE=Swilly;42455263]Very horribely when they acutally needed them. The lack of body armor and semi-automatic rifles is what lead to [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrlUsaYlKPs"]Los Angeles cops during a bank raid[/URL] getting completely gun downed by an automatic AK74. Their 9mm pistols did literally nothing against the body armor being used. Then there was the father son duo who gunned down a cop after running him over with a semi automatic AK varient around the early 2000s.[/QUOTE] I live in the LA area and that's the one incident, ONE, that we've had like that. This area has millions of people. What makes no sense about this to me is how much of this equipment police departments are piling up and how many cities acquire it. Cities which don't need it, and only roll it out on regular calls as a show of force. SWAT teams get sent out all the time these days. "Show of force" is a dangerous precedent in civilian areas, it's different than keeping the peace. Rolling up with a SWAT team and an APC 'just to be safe' is actually a police force intimidating the citizens.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42455580]I live in the LA area and that's the one incident, ONE, that we've had like that. This area has millions of people. What makes no sense about this to me is how much of this equipment police departments are piling up and how many cities acquire it. Cities which don't need it, and only roll it out on regular calls as a show of force. SWAT teams get sent out all the time these days. "Show of force" is a dangerous precedent in civilian areas, it's different than keeping the peace. Rolling up with a SWAT team and an APC 'just to be safe' is actually a police force intimidating the citizens.[/QUOTE] Most the Los Angeles equipment is probably handed out to the police departments in the suburbs and far off regions.

Really great route we're going with our liberties when politicians continually try to enact stricter gun control while the Police are getting equipment (such as MRAPS) that would make some armies envious. In my opinion if the Police is allowed to undergo this sort of militarization we should at least have the 86' machine gun ban repealed. The power balance between civilians and the police just keeps getting skewed towards the police.

[QUOTE=Octavius;42455418]I can understand the need for better equipment in general, but I think a MRAP could possibly be overdoing it unless they think the criminals they are after will have some nice explosives to fight em with.[/QUOTE] Its not like theyll be roaming the streets being used by regular policemen. You dont have to worry about getting pulled over by an MRAP for speeding. It seems to me like theyre just recycling older military equipment for SWAT and other forces. Much better than parking the rigs in scrap yards, throwing old guns in a pile, etc

fuck cops

[QUOTE=Kalleo;42455485]In the case of using military vehicles I'd say it's a good thing since they're probably saving money by not buying new "non-military" vehicles. And I'm pretty sure that the truck is delivered without a .50 cal machine gun attached.[/QUOTE] Yea from what I read there was no gun for the turret included in the MRAP that they got. I'm sure they are saving money by using military vehicles but it just doesn't seem like the best idea to give it to some places, and hopefully it won't get to that point. I do think something else would have been more suitable as an APC, but as long as it is the counties MRAP that is prett okay, the only time to be worried would be if it had an armed turret or was not controlled by county but by city or local departments. [QUOTE=GunFox;42455548]SWAT teams often keep an armored vehicle around for approaching areas that have entrenched armed suspects. They are also often used for breaching, either by simply driving through an obstacle, or hooking a chain to the side of a building and simply ripping part of the building out. The fact that it is resistant to explosives is really just because most armored wheeled vehicles in the military are resistant to explosives these days.[/QUOTE] I don't have much of a problem with it so long as it is controlled at some higher level not totally local level and so long as it won't be carrying around a gun. I can understand the need for it, just felt something might be more appropriate for the situation, but I do completely understand the use and need of some armored transport and this MRAP fits the place.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;42455564]Yeah, 4 Agencies, hundreds of agents and equipment, as well as martial law for a 19 year old. Great precedent.[/QUOTE] yes a 19 year old that helped commit an act of terrorism [editline]8th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Judas;42455633]fuck cops[/QUOTE] judas thinktank comin full swing again

The Army has a huge amount of MRAP's that we don't need anymore, so instead of just mothballing them, they give them to other US agencies and whatnot. It helps them get new equipment, and it helps the Army reduce the amount of MRAP's sitting around.

Just wait until the dollar and the stock market collapses. When there is no oil to get electricity, when there is no more food to buy in the stores and when there is no running water. At this time you will learn why the american police is so militarized & you will know the true meaning of facism.

[QUOTE=Swilly;42455170][B]And in many ways, most cops are still under powered compared to the sheer volume of weapons that can be found within private citizen hands.[/B] Half of the tactics used by SWAT are because they're trying to protect their own lives during a raid. Up until the 1990s, most police forces didn't even have the semi-automatic rifles or body protection that they do now. Most still don't, the consistent fear of the 'militarization' is merely them picking up equipment that's run its shelf life and is usually severe downgrades to current standards. Its riot and swat gear being grabbed. The regular police officer doesn't wear half the shit people freak out about because its bulky and gets in the way.[/QUOTE] I own a Nagant 91/30 and a Remington 870. I'm pretty sure a shit-ton of cops with glocks and AR-15's could down me right quick.