Trump is such an actually awful debater. I hope without Jeb to bully people he can't fall back on being the funny man of the debate.
Just see what happens when he attacks someone who can actually speak back:
[video=youtube;v9L-prXogME]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9L-prXogME[/video]
God those comments, I know it's Youtube but man
After reading his business books, I'm convinced that he either gave up completely on logic due to his power fallacy, or the myth that he is actually winning the Republican campaign just so a Democrat can win is true.
Pretty much my sentiment, though I don't think he went into quite enough detail.
"Trumps so scary. His rise is something we shouldn't be proud of. Like look at this guy amplifying the voice of some angry and ignorant person. Isn't that so stupid of him? Honestly tho, we dunno why he's so popular. Oh hold on, we missed our daily quota of Trump on our blog. 'Today Trump trumps trumpettes by pronouncing 'the' as 'thee' instead of 'thuh'."
- Vox News on obliviousness and the moral high ground(???)
[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=vox&oq=vox&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1727j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Trump+site:vox.com&tbm=nws[/url]
DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
edit: I wonder if the people who dumbed me realize I wasn't defending or praising Trump, but making fun of vox trying to act as a moral authority on the matter, while still publishing a new article on every little fart the guy does. In their own video they say his amplifying the voice of lady calling Cruz a pussy was a shitty thing to do, but they amplify the voice of (in their own words) a "racist, sexist, demagogue" several times on a daily basis.
Trump is the greatest thing to happen to politics regardless of whether or not you support him/his policies. People actually care about the elections now because they either want anyone besides Trump to win, or they want Trump to win the presidency just to fuck with the political machine.
A few points from the video that should be touched on:
Any presidential candidate is dangerous because of the potential power they've been given. For most of recent history this power has been elected to lawmakers or government officials, careers which focus on group leadership and extremely precise wording. Trump comes from a business career which focuses on end results ("deals" as Trump calls it) and cooperation to get results ("close deals"). Trump comes from a different background, that's not necessarily good or bad, just different. Questions like "Do you really want Trump to have the nuclear football?" are dumb when you rephrase it as "Do you really want some random old government employee you've never heard about until 3 months ago to have the nuclear football?", so now it applies to most candidates.
Regarding his early statements on Mexico, he said "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, [B]their[/B] rapists." As in they are bringing rapists, not [I]they are[/I] rapists. Still a bold statement, but hardly anyone brings this up, and I hate seeing it misquoted.
All the dumb shit Trump has said doesn't matter in Trump's mind not because he doesn't care, but because [I]it doesn't matter as long as you get the end result[/I]. This is how [I]any[/I] business works, its an integral part of capitalism.
There's probably more to talk about but it just really boils down to results matter; bureaucratic stuff and political correctness mean nothing if there are no results.
This video doesn't even contest his policies or his justifications its just saying Trump is an asshole racist sexist ect. [I]Pathos Logos Ethos[/I] comes to mind.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49796223]Trump is the greatest thing to happen to politics regardless of whether or not you support him/his policies. People actually care about the elections now because they either want anyone besides Trump to win, or they want Trump to win the presidency just to fuck with the political machine.
A few points from the video that should be touched on:
Any presidential candidate is dangerous because of the potential power they've been given. For most of recent history this power has been elected to lawmakers or government officials, careers which focus on group leadership and extremely precise wording. Trump comes from a business career which focuses on end results ("deals" as Trump calls it) and cooperation to get results ("close deals"). Trump comes from a different background, that's not necessarily good or bad, just different. Questions like "Do you really want Trump to have the nuclear football?" are dumb when you rephrase it as "Do you really want some random old government employee you've never heard about until 3 months ago to have the nuclear football?", so now it applies to most candidates.
Regarding his early statements on Mexico, he said "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, [B]their[/B] rapists." As in they are bringing rapists, not [I]they are[/I] rapists. Still a bold statement, but hardly anyone brings this up, and I hate seeing it misquoted.
All the dumb shit Trump has said doesn't matter in Trump's mind not because he doesn't care, but because [I]it doesn't matter as long as you get the end result[/I]. This is how [I]any[/I] business works, its an integral part of capitalism.
There's probably more to talk about but it just really boils down to results matter; bureaucratic stuff and political correctness mean nothing if there are no results.
This video doesn't even contest his policies or his justifications its just saying Trump is an asshole racist sexist ect. [I]Pathos Logos Ethos[/I] comes to mind.[/QUOTE]
The video starts off with the right point, explained with poor reasons.
The troubling aspect of Trump as a potential presidency is that he gains votes on promises of:
taking over foreign oil,
forcing another nation to fund an unrealistic and xenophobic idealistic "wall",
banning a [I]religion[/I] from entry into the country,
forced identification of a specific religion's members within the US,
illegally detaining [I]all[/I] members of a religion within the US,
and bringing "worse than waterboarding" regarding the torture methods used against suspected terrorists (which were shown repeatedly even by government documents to be in many cases completely innocent [I]US citizens[/I].
Anyone building a campaign on the fear of other religions to the point of stripping others of their US and human rights is indeed someone to fear, and not ignore just because he plays the funny-man. He's a fear-monger, using the fear and hatred of others as a distraction from the country's real problems that he can exploit.
[editline]23rd February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fawkbawkz;49796208]"Trumps so scary. His rise is something we shouldn't be proud of. Like look at this guy amplifying the voice of some angry and ignorant person. Isn't that so stupid of him? Honestly tho, we dunno why he's so popular. Oh hold on, we missed our daily quota of Trump on our blog. 'Today Trump trumps trumpettes by pronouncing 'the' as 'thee' instead of 'thuh'."
- Vox News on obliviousness and the moral high ground(???)
[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=vox&oq=vox&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1727j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Trump+site:vox.com&tbm=nws[/url]
DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR[/QUOTE]
yeah you sure showed them how much more intellectual you are
Trump is relevant because of how far things have fallen. Trump, Hilary and Rubio are ridiculously awful.
He's seen as honest because politicians have lied to people and sounded intelligent while accomplishing little and causing harm. He's seen as honest because he's blunt and outrageous.
[QUOTE]The one you should be scared of is Hillary Clinton, a completely self-serving pathological liar who cares nothing about people but about position and power.•[/QUOTE]
and Rubio/Cruz are the christian right personified.
[QUOTE=bitches;49796252]
yeah you sure showed them how much more intellectual you are[/QUOTE]
And you sure showed me by rating me dumb and not addressing what I said with this passive aggressive post. [sp]I'm gonna take a guess and say you even think that post was defending Trump.[/sp]
[QUOTE=bitches;49796252]The video starts off with the right point, explained with poor reasons.
The troubling aspect of Trump as a potential presidency is that he gains votes on promises of:
taking over foreign oil,
forcing another nation to fund an unrealistic and xenophobic idealistic "wall",
banning a [I]religion[/I] from entry into the country,
forced identification of a specific religion's members within the US,
illegally detaining [I]all[/I] members of a religion within the US,
and bringing "worse than waterboarding" regarding the torture methods used against suspected terrorists (which were shown repeatedly even by government documents to be in many cases completely innocent [I]US citizens[/I].
Anyone building a campaign on the fear of other religions to the point of stripping others of their US and human rights is indeed someone to fear, and not ignore just because he plays the funny-man. He's a fear-monger, using the fear and hatred of others as a distraction from the country's real problems that he can exploit.[/QUOTE]
The wall isn't xenophobic... its defining the southern border. Besides the Rio Grande (which people cross anyway) there isn't any geographic barrier inherently defining where the U.S. ends and Mexico begins. Idealistic maybe, but the discussion of a wall along the southern border is not new.
Trump is not proposing banning a religion, he would be [I]temporarily banning non-U.S. citizens that practice the religion[/I] from entering the country, which falls in line with the principles of/is legally allowed within the Constitution, [I]which also only applies to U.S. citizens anyway.[/I]
I don't know what you are referring to with detaining members of a religion. If you are referring to the Muslim ID controversy, Trump stated that he "wouldn't rule it out". That's hardly anything to go on, someone asked him a yes or no question which is unfair for anyone since it basically puts words in your mouth.
I disagree with torture though. Its not a topic I handle well.
People misrepresent Trump to be worse than he is and that always falls apart. Just look at how the media played up the clip from 2002 where he "supported the Iraq War".
They really don't have to do this and if anything he just gets support when these things fall apart.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49796318]The wall isn't xenophobic... its defining the southern border. Besides the Rio Grande (which people cross anyway) there isn't any geographic barrier inherently defining where the U.S. ends and Mexico begins. Idealistic maybe, but the discussion of a wall along the southern border is not new.
Trump is not proposing banning a religion, he would be [I]temporarily banning non-U.S. citizens that practice the religion[/I] from entering the country, which falls in line with the principles of/is legally allowed within the Constitution, [I]which also only applies to U.S. citizens anyway.[/I]
I don't know what you are referring to with detaining members of a religion. If you are referring to the Muslim ID controversy, Trump stated that he "wouldn't rule it out". That's hardly anything to go on, someone asked him a yes or no question which is unfair for anyone since it basically puts words in your mouth.
I disagree with torture though. Its not a topic I handle well.[/QUOTE]
Regarding xenophobia I'm saying that the wall is unrealistic (especially the part of making Mexico fund it), and he knows it; he only mentions the idea to appeal to the roots of his voting base that believe illegal immigrants swarm over the border to steal precious american jobs.
A worldwide ban in immigration to the country on purely religious grounds is against the ideas this country was founded on; it violates the principle of separating church from state... unless you're suggesting that he's right about the Muslim faith being an inherently dangerous religion to the United States, no matter which country they're coming from. It would be a completely different matter if he were suggesting to only halt immigration from certain middle-eastern countries.
Regarding detainment, Trump was praising FDR's detainment to internment camps of thousands of Japanese-American civilians and their families during World War II, an act born of xenophobic hysteria in the wake of the bombing of Pearl Harbor, detainment that shattered the lives of our own innocent. In Trump's eyes, this would be a valid response with Muslim american citizens to some unforeseen act of terrorism.
[editline]23rd February 2016[/editline]
The point is that Trump does not value matters of civil rights so long as he can appeal to hysteria. There can be no worse quality in a national leader.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49796223]
All the dumb shit Trump has said doesn't matter in Trump's mind not because he doesn't care, but because [I]it doesn't matter as long as you get the end result[/I]. This is how [I]any[/I] business works, its an integral part of capitalism. [/QUOTE]
Its sad too, because you'd think the more he spouts nonsense the less support he'd recieve. I figured Trump would be the ignorance vote sink, and it turns out there's a lot of ignorance among voters.
[editline]23rd February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49796306]
He's seen as honest because politicians have lied to people and sounded intelligent while accomplishing little and causing harm. He's seen as honest because he's blunt and outrageous.
[/QUOTE]
Honesty alone isn't enough to make someone a good president. You can be honest about a lot of things. Bigots can be honest. You can be honest about disgusting views you hold, it's not inherently a good trait on its own. It's a bare minimum for expressing another platform.
[QUOTE=bitches;49796344]Regarding xenophobia I'm saying that the wall is unrealistic (especially the part of making Mexico fund it), and he knows it; he only mentions the idea to appeal to the roots of his voting base that believe illegal immigrants swarm over the border to steal precious american jobs.
A worldwide ban in immigration to the country on purely religious grounds is against the ideas this country was founded on; it violates the principle of separating church from state... unless you're suggesting that he's right about the Muslim faith being an inherently dangerous religion to the United States, no matter which country they're coming from. It would be a completely different matter if he were suggesting to only halt immigration from certain middle-eastern countries.
Regarding detainment, Trump was praising FDR's detainment to internment camps of thousands of Japanese-American civilians and their families during World War II, an act born of xenophobic hysteria in the wake of the bombing of Pearl Harbor, detainment that shattered the lives of our own innocent. In Trump's eyes, this would be a valid response with Muslim american citizens to some unforeseen act of terrorism.[/QUOTE]
I suppose saying Mexico will pay for the wall is a bit much. The only way I can interpret this happening in the future (since Mexican officials have outright stated they won't pay for the wall) is that through business deals we make money off of Mexican trade, which then gets put into building the wall.
I agree with you on the Muslim immigration ban being against our founding ideals, however there is national security merit to it, and to Trump that's all that matters because [I]results matter[/I]. I might argue that the nationality doesn't matter regarding religious practice since the world is so connected now. In any case I find it more important that the safety and rights of U.S. citizens are upheld rather than serving as a model for the rest of the world to follow. On a side note, I disagree with the Patriot Act.
I haven't seen Trump comment on the Japanese internment camps, could you cite that please? Even though I see the reasoning behind the internment camps I still disagree with them (rights>security).
[editline]22nd February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillRay;49796362]Its sad too, because you'd think the more he spouts nonsense the less support he'd recieve. I figured Trump would be the ignorance vote sink, and it turns out there's a lot of ignorance among voters.
[editline]23rd February 2016[/editline]
Honesty alone isn't enough to make someone a good president. You can be honest about a lot of things. You can be honestly racist, hateful, whatever, it's not inherently a good trait on its own. It's a bare minimum for expressing another platform[/QUOTE]
Yes a lot of Trump's support base is full of ignorant voters but you'll find that in any election with any candidate. Honestly I don't think it matters since there will never be a candidate someone agrees with 100% unless you decide to run on your own, which I think is part of why Trump is running (If you want something done right, do it yourself).
Also with Trump's language its less of honesty is important and more of it doesn't matter since he has a solid business background. The stereotype of socially awkward engineers exist because as long as an engineer can do the technical work, the interpersonal skills aren't as important for doing an engineer's job. Same reason why business people are stereotyped as assholes or people that just flaunt their money; it doesn't matter as long as they do their core job.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49796416]
Also with Trump's language its less of honesty is important and more of it doesn't matter since he has a solid business background. The stereotype of socially awkward engineers exist because as long as an engineer can do the technical work, the interpersonal skills aren't as important for doing an engineer's job. Same reason why business people are stereotyped as assholes or people that just flaunt their money; it doesn't matter as long as they do their core job.[/QUOTE]
too bad running a country and therefore having relations with every other country in the world isn't the same as being able to make a lot of money for yourself
[editline]23rd February 2016[/editline]
i mean if you don't think the president of the united states needs people skills then i dunno what to say
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49796223]Trump is the greatest thing to happen to politics regardless of whether or not you support him/his policies. People actually care about the elections now because they either want anyone besides Trump to win, or they want Trump to win the presidency just to fuck with the political machine.
A few points from the video that should be touched on:
Any presidential candidate is dangerous because of the potential power they've been given. For most of recent history this power has been elected to lawmakers or government officials, careers which focus on group leadership and extremely precise wording. Trump comes from a business career which focuses on end results ("deals" as Trump calls it) and cooperation to get results ("close deals"). Trump comes from a different background, that's not necessarily good or bad, just different. Questions like "Do you really want Trump to have the nuclear football?" are dumb when you rephrase it as "Do you really want some random old government employee you've never heard about until 3 months ago to have the nuclear football?", so now it applies to most candidates.
Regarding his early statements on Mexico, he said "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, [B]their[/B] rapists." As in they are bringing rapists, not [I]they are[/I] rapists. Still a bold statement, but hardly anyone brings this up, and I hate seeing it misquoted.
All the dumb shit Trump has said doesn't matter in Trump's mind not because he doesn't care, but because [I]it doesn't matter as long as you get the end result[/I]. This is how [I]any[/I] business works, its an integral part of capitalism.
There's probably more to talk about but it just really boils down to results matter; bureaucratic stuff and political correctness mean nothing if there are no results.
This video doesn't even contest his policies or his justifications its just saying Trump is an asshole racist sexist ect. [I]Pathos Logos Ethos[/I] comes to mind.[/QUOTE]
Fuckin' lmao. I'd say Trump was the canary in the coal mine of politics, but the image of canary simply falling over dead doesn't quite cut it. The fact that someone be so blatantly a terrible person can face so little scrutiny is democracy taking a shower and finding a lump in it's ballsack that wasn't there before. Time and time again he's said absolutely awful, reprehensible things, and he gets away with it because there's no limit to what gullible, naive, or spiteful idiots will ignore just as long as some demagogue appeals to their kneejerk reactions to "political correctness" and "bureaucracy" And what the hell are you even on about with trite business analogy? As if ~results~ were some intangible quality that only he has or something. Constantly alienating people and failing to show basic human decency not only tends to make it a lot harder to achieve [B]Results™[/B], but is also a pretty clear indicator that they're not going to be well-intended. And you want to talk about fucking pathos while supporting a man who runs campaign utterly devoid of anything else?
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49796416]
Yes a lot of Trump's support base is full of ignorant voters but you'll find that in any election with any candidate. Honestly I don't think it matters since there will never be a candidate someone agrees with 100% unless you decide to run on your own, which I think is part of why Trump is running (If you want something done right, do it yourself).
[/QUOTE]
However, of all the candidates, Trump's words and actions has specifically appealed to the xenophobic, the extremist right and even the edgy younger generation of groups of people like /pol/ users in such a specific way that he knows who he's playing for with his actions. I would even argue that Cruz with his heavily evangelical motives has not reached out to the far right as Trump has on a lot of things.
He doesn't need to have solid ideas because he can repeat himself and go on the campaign throwing out witty one-liners (I really hate hearing trump debate if it wasn't obvious) that his obsurd character alone will draw in more voters than substance.
All voter groups have their ignorant members, but he specifically appeals to them. That's why he talks about extreme measures to solving problems, like the wall.
"he knows how to make money for himself" isn't a qualification either
does it look like i give a fuck if he knows how to make money for himself? what i care about is that [I]i[/I] can make money
do you think providing for yourself is the same as providing for an entire country?
Video totally over-simplifies why Trump is going to win the Republican nomination. It isn't simply that he's 'different' or entertaining. It's that he's not acting like some hoity toity politician that's too afraid to speak their mind. Racist or not, on some level he really does believe in what he's saying, and what he's saying isn't the same political rhetoric that we've been getting for the past sixteen years. That resonates with people.
Trump is useful if only to highlight what is wrong with the USA.
I just realized a week ago that John McAfee is running for president in the libertarian party.
Did anyone know this?
I kind of want Bloomberg to run as an independent. I know he should not since that would split the left and let any Republican win, but I just want to see Bloomberg tell Trump to his face that he could buy him 4 times over.
[QUOTE=Paynith;49798051]I just realized a week ago that John McAfee is running for president in the libertarian party.
Did anyone know this?[/QUOTE]
As if Americans weren't slow and bloated enough
This reminds me of how we elected a nazi in our regional elections.
Exact same shit. We have a Roma problem, he was the man to solve it. He posed as blunt and obnoxious and carefree. He was interesting. He was not a "boring" politician. Somewhat disturbed, dark past, spews dumb shit pretty much nonstop (that everyone secretly agrees with but nobody dares talk about because racism), but nobody cares because he's different and the exact breath of fresh air that our boring left-wing politics needed.
Since he got elected he didn't do much since he doesn't really have that much power, but this is only the beginning of his career. People are already crying for his presidency. It's disgusting.
Does anyone notice that Ted Cruz looks alot like Nixon?
Sometimes I wonder if Trump just does this for fun, see how far it goes and drops before would win.
Silly though but it really is like some reality show.
I really hope that he doesn't get that far.
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