• Red vs. Blue Political Divide May Really Be About Young vs. Old
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[URL="http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/trumps-address-to-congress/red-vs-blue-political-divide-may-really-be-about-young-n725651"]SOURCE[/URL] [IMG]http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_08/1914716/president_trumps_approval_total_18-_to_34-year-olds_50-_to_64-year-olds_chartbuilder_44afc52fc67dd2325cf1d5c632b02a81.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_08/1914751/approval_of_the_temporary_travel_ban_total_18-_to_34-year-olds_50-_to_64-year-olds_chartbuilder_6973bff3f9722431c37a1ef871a27825.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_08/1914756/approval_of_the_affordable_care_act_total_18-_to_34-year-olds_50-_to_64-year-olds_chartbuilder_2b07f77d0b61491e8874554600ad4aba.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_08/1914761/foreign_trade_total_18-_to_34-year-olds_55-_to_70-year-olds_chartbuilder_1_5939e165fa65a58e5518eb25aa00d3f4.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png[/IMG] [QUOTE]The divided opinions on Donald Trump's young presidency are well known, but the gulf between those in the millennial and baby boomer age groups are stark and may hold the biggest long-term political impact. The latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows millennial voters (18-34 years old) strongly opposed to Trump on a long list of issues — from his job performance to his executive order on travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries. Meanwhile, baby boomers (55-70 years old) are among Trump's staunchest supporters. Millennials are big free traders; baby boomers are not. With numbers like those, millennials and baby boomers don't just look like different age groups; they look like they come from very different Americas — and in many ways they do. Millennials are a much more diverse group of people in the poll, only 62 percent are white and non-Hispanic. Among baby boomers, 78 percent are white and non-Hispanic. Millennials in the poll tend to be much more likely to live in urban places (40 percent) compared to baby boomers (21 percent of them live urban places). And millennials have higher levels of educational attainment, 37 percent in the poll have at least a bachelor's degree. Among baby boomers that figure is 29 percent. Those differences may also help explain why the two age groups have different attitudes towards Trump's executive order. And it may help explain differences in opinion on free trade. Millennials are more likely to have at least a bachelor's degree and those with a bachelor's tend to be less threatened by the job displacement associated with trade. Why does this all matter? Because the politics of today is always setting up the politics of tomorrow. The first divisive month of Trump's presidency looks like it is very much a baby boomer affair. And with policies and the support he is getting from the Republicans in the House and Senate, he is pulling the Republican Party onto that track as well. That may be a prescription for short-term success for the president and the GOP. [B]But in the longer term, the future of the country belongs to millennial voters and they don't see a lot to like in the president and his policies. [/B] [/QUOTE]
Stats like this make me wonder how we'll handle the issues of the future when our generation is older
i always thought about this ever since i saw the videos of a young donald trump saying he would run for the democratic nomination if he was gonna run for president, made me think, how much does age matter and 'in the good old days' play a part in the RvB divide
It depresses me that people who will be dead in 5 years are dictating my future for the next 20
[QUOTE=Da Big Man;51904358]It depresses me that people who will be dead in 5 years are dictating my future for the next 20[/QUOTE] I had an idea of an age limit on voting but was shot down for it sounding retarded.
[QUOTE=Da Big Man;51904358]It depresses me that people who will be dead in 5 years are dictating my future for the next 20[/QUOTE] been like that for many many years.
[QUOTE=343N;51904341]i always thought about this ever since i saw the videos of a young donald trump saying he would run for the democratic nomination if he was gonna run for president, made me think, how much does age matter and 'in the good old days' play a part in the RvB divide[/QUOTE] Honestly? The Baby Boomers coasted off of the fact that the United States was one of the only countries who's economy wasn't totally shattered by WWII. They grew up in a period of unprecedented growth and opportunity (if they were white, anyway). Over the years a combination of Reaganomics (that THEY voted for) and Neoliberals like Bill Clinton outsourced the fuck out of the economy, and by then, boomers were either already rich (and rich people trend conservative...HANDS OFF MY MONAY) or they weren't and their prospects for getting rich were getting dimmer and dimmer. I feel like this is why boomers have this perpetual dismay at the current state of affairs, and this lingering nostalgia for the good ol' days. They're lashing out at anything that might further put them in perceived decline. Contrast this to Millennials, who grew up just in time for 9/11, the wars in the Middle East, BUSH JR., the Patriot Act, and the 2007/8 economic crisis that [B]absolutely fucked[/B] the economy. Naturally, Millennials are untrusting of institutions and authority, trend left on the political spectrum, and are secular as fuck (because unfettered capitalism fucking sucks, trickle down economics clearly failed, and religion is...religion). Unless a massive war breaks out that ruins the United States, or the economy suddenly becomes amazing, I suspect that Millennials won't have that once-and-a-lifetime economy to 'reminisce' on, and will likely retain their leftist bent from cradle to grave. Check out this excerpt from an [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/01/09/the_most_entitled_generation_isnt_millennials_its_baby_boomers_125184.html"]opinion piece[/URL] on RealClearPolitics that [B]DUMPS[/B] on Baby Boomers for calling us entitled. Cathartic as fuck to read. [QUOTE]True entitlement is tripling the national debt since the 1980s and using the proceeds to spend lavishly on tax cuts and government programs that primarily provided short-term economic boosts, while refusing to raise the Social Security age of retirement or to reduce benefits, even as the gluttonous program careens toward unsustainability. True entitlement is allowing the reasonable minimum wage that Baby Boomers enjoyed when they were our age to deteriorate while opting to cut taxes on the gains from stocks and bonds that they accrued during periods of debt-driven economic and stock-market surges – creating an economy where wage earners at all income levels, as of 2012, receive a smaller portion of economic output at any time since 1929. True entitlement is, for decades, enjoying the benefits of the lowest energy costs in the world while refusing to price-in the external costs of carbon emissions, exacerbating the real changes to our planet that pose profound risks to the environment and economy for which Millennials will soon be the primary stewards. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51904385]Almost any new restrictions who can and can't vote would be retarded. Soylent Green, however, is so in fashion.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's true, it's a door that once opened would be political suicide to try to close. I can't think of any historic example of disenfranchisement without some sort of radical regime change except for USA post-reconstruction era.
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51904374]I had an idea of an age limit on voting but was shot down for it sounding retarded.[/QUOTE] Even if they are short-timers, they have as much right to have a say in government as you or I.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51904426]Even if they are short-timers, they have as much right to have a say in government as you or I.[/QUOTE] Agreed. I fucking detest old people's politics, but they should absolutely not be disenfranchised. Lol we shit on RepubliCunts for Voter ID laws being disenfranchisement; proposing an age ban is even worse.
Death Panels for voting is the last thing we need.
Nobody should be able to vote but me. Problem solved.
make america push grandma down the stairs again!
i have hopes that my generation will know better than the current 18 - 35 year old camp. it's always been interesting that nearly clear-cut generational groups process things completely differently than one another. it feels almost as if it was somehow genetic in the way that i shifted from liberal to conservative - in-tune with the consensus that the rising generation z is highly conservative - even after essentially growing up browsing this left-leaning forum. [editline]3rd March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Judas;51904546]make america push grandma down the stairs again![/QUOTE] fuck's sake dude
This is apparently a changing trend with generation z which is positively frightening to think about. The millenial generation will be sandwiched by two generations of conservatives who grew up in relatively stable economic conditions thanks to the work of democrats but will think that the millenial generation are the spoiled ones.
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;51904559]i have hopes that my generation will know better than the current 18 - 35 year old camp. it's always been interesting that nearly clear-cut generational groups process things completely differently than one another. it feels almost as if it was somehow genetic in the way that i shifted from liberal to conservative - in-tune with the consensus that the rising generation z is highly conservative - even after essentially growing up browsing this left-leaning forum. [editline]3rd March 2017[/editline] fuck's sake dude[/QUOTE] I haven't the faintest idea why kids/teens today would lean conservative. Not a fucking clue. Is it just reactionary shit to the socially liberal positions that Millennials hold? Is it because they're fucking teens and they haven't formed actual informed political ideologies yet besides whatever's anti-establishment? I know as a teen what political views I had were warped as fuck. Like if you grow up in economically shit times, you're not supposed to have an ideology whos economic policies will make the economy even more shit lol. Doesn't add up.
Aren't young Americans some of the most Republican-leaning in recent decades? Am I missing something here?
[QUOTE=Da Big Man;51904358]It depresses me that people who will be dead in 5 years are dictating my future for the next 20[/QUOTE] One day you are going to be old and some teenager will have the same gripe about you.
[QUOTE=Freakie;51904609]Aren't young Americans some of the most Republican-leaning in recent decades? Am I missing something here?[/QUOTE] 18-35 is approximately millenial age. Gen Z are the conservative ones and they're late 90s-now. So honestly, the graph would probably be more left leaning if you cut it off at 20 years old as surprising as that sounds.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51904590]I haven't the faintest idea why kids/teens today would lean conservative. Not a fucking clue. Is it just reactionary shit to the socially liberal positions that Millennials hold? Is it because they're fucking teens and they haven't formed actual informed political ideologies yet besides whatever's anti-establishment? I know as a teen what political views I had were warped as fuck. Like if you grow up in economically shit times, you're not supposed to have an ideology whos economic policies will make the economy even more shit lol. Doesn't add up.[/QUOTE] Characters like Milo have shown that you can appeal to the youth by ragging on social issues and children will happily whine about how much they hate left groups without realizing how far right of the spectrum they're falling. Millennials aren't very open to old school conservative views but start ragging on Muslims (a greater disdain for religion and the anti-immigration movement means that's fine), the LGBTQ movement (having been raised constantly being told to be more accepting of gays and such, the current divide in public view on trans and other groups means plenty of millennials will be happy to decry them) or pro-black groups (Black Lives Matter are basically terrorists and worse than the KKK of course, Blue Lives Matter is far more important) and while you won't sway over [I]all[/I] millennials, you'll get enough of them onto your insane alt-right rollercoaster that you can basically continue Tea Party politics into the next generation. Second Option Bias also helps. Where when someone is only told one thing by an authority, and then is presented with a second option, they'll jump onto that as the truth. A good example is the Civil War in school. Children are taught from childhood (in the North) that the war was fought over Slavery, then later they hear someone say that's a lie, it was [I]really [/I]about State's Rights, and then kids will be convinced that's the case, and then they grow up and realize that no, it really was mostly about slavery. Kids grow up in a much more liberal and left leaning America, at least as far as most school systems go, and when far right views hit the mainstream that contradict what they were taught they jump on it.
kill all the old people and then kill all the young people so they don't get old. problem solved.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51904590]I haven't the faintest idea why kids/teens today would lean conservative. Not a fucking clue. Is it just reactionary shit to the socially liberal positions that Millennials hold? Is it because they're fucking teens and they haven't formed actual informed political ideologies yet besides whatever's anti-establishment? I know as a teen what political views I had were warped as fuck. Like if you grow up in economically shit times, you're not supposed to have an ideology whos economic policies will make the economy even more shit lol. Doesn't add up.[/QUOTE] from what i've observed it's definitely a strong reaction to millenials and it is prevalent among every person i know and even among the less politically inclined as thanks to social media. additionally the groups of kids that are the most visibly SJW stereotypes (wearing lgbt shit, dyed hair) are mocked by just about everyone in my highschool for it. i am generalizing things somewhat, but it's obvious that being overtly politically correct is perceived negatively as it's associated with SJWs although there is an edginess aspect to it i don't think anyone can tell at this point whether it's just an edgy phase or not - generations will counter each other.
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;51904683]from what i've observed it's definitely a strong reaction to millenials and it is prevalent among every person i know and even among the less politically inclined as thanks to social media. additionally the groups of kids that are the most visibly SJW stereotypes (wearing lgbt shit, dyed hair) are mocked by just about everyone in my highschool for it. although there is an edginess aspect to it i don't think anyone can tell at this point whether it's just an edgy phase or not - generations will counter each other.[/QUOTE] you know when us millennials were growing up, bashing christianity was the in-thing to do - everyone did it, we'd go on endlessly during our teen years about how much christians are wrong and bad and hateful and want to rule over us. it was the fucking overwhelming consensus everywhere - christians are bad, athiesm, satanism and agnosticism are in. and then we grew up.
[QUOTE=JeSuisIkea;51904645]Characters like Milo have shown that you can appeal to the youth by ragging on social issues and children will happily whine about how much they hate left groups without realizing how far right of the spectrum they're falling. Millennials aren't very open to old school conservative views but start ragging on Muslims (a greater disdain for religion and the anti-immigration movement means that's fine), the LGBTQ movement (having been raised constantly being told to be more accepting of gays and such, the current divide in public view on trans and other groups means plenty of millennials will be happy to decry them) or pro-black groups (Black Lives Matter are basically terrorists and worse than the KKK of course, Blue Lives Matter is far more important) and while you won't sway over [I]all[/I] millennials, you'll get enough of them onto your insane alt-right rollercoaster that you can basically continue Tea Party politics into the next generation. Second Option Bias also helps. Where when someone is only told one thing by an authority, and then is presented with a second option, they'll jump onto that as the truth. A good example is the Civil War in school. Children are taught from childhood (in the North) that the war was fought over Slavery, then later they hear someone say that's a lie, it was [I]really [/I]about State's Rights, and then kids will be convinced that's the case, and then they grow up and realize that no, it really was mostly about slavery. Kids grow up in a much more liberal and left leaning America, at least as far as most school systems go, and when far right views hit the mainstream that contradict what they were taught they jump on it.[/QUOTE] Makes sense. Perhaps they're more socially conservative, but I highly doubt Gen Z has formed well thought out economic ideologies yet. My money is on them being left of center economically when they come of age. Would be really odd if they weren't. Even Trump voters are to the left of mainstream American conservatives economically, that's how spectacularly Reagonomics have failed.
[QUOTE=1239the;51904696]you know when us millennials were growing up, bashing christianity was the in-thing to do - everyone did it, we'd go on endlessly during our teen years about how much christians are wrong and bad and hateful and want to rule over us. it was the fucking overwhelming consensus everywhere - christians are bad, athiesm, satanism and agnosticism are in. and then we grew up.[/QUOTE] aren't millenials the most atheistic generation thus far? it seems your angst carried into adulthood. keep in mind i'm not trying to say that gen z will be hyper conservative or even retain the defensiveness against political correctness, this is what i've noticed and it seems like the studies on gen z are adding up. don't get antagonistic my guys
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;51904683]from what i've observed it's definitely a strong reaction to millenials and it is prevalent among every person i know and even among the less politically inclined as thanks to social media. additionally the groups of kids that are the most visibly SJW stereotypes (wearing lgbt shit, dyed hair) are mocked by just about everyone in my highschool for it. although there is an edginess aspect to it i don't think anyone can tell at this point whether it's just an edgy phase or not - generations will counter each other.[/QUOTE] you don't have to change your political views just because a bunch of sjw's took a stinky shit in the liberal bed just to spite them. there are idiots all over the political spectrum. a fat lady with cyan lipstick arguing over garfield's gender does not define all liberals the same way a redneck who believes obama put mind control serum in the water supply does not define all conservatives.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51904590]I haven't the faintest idea why kids/teens today would lean conservative. Not a fucking clue. Is it just reactionary shit to the socially liberal positions that Millennials hold? Is it because they're fucking teens and they haven't formed actual informed political ideologies yet besides whatever's anti-establishment? I know as a teen what political views I had were warped as fuck. Like if you grow up in economically shit times, you're not supposed to have an ideology whos economic policies will make the economy even more shit lol. Doesn't add up.[/QUOTE] I think its a combination of a lack of education (I was much less informed in HS than I am now at just 20, a lot can change), a feverent outrage culture over political correctness and social justice, and corners of the internet growing more and more consolidated in their views. When I was growing up on the internet, youtube was in its infancy and while 4chan still had their nazi habbo hotel raids and such, it was mostly to be edgy with, looking back, very few single serious inklings behind it, as much as they horrified me as a young lad. There really has been a marked shift over the years, and I figure it has to do in part with isolated echo-chambers that reverberate talking points and spread them like viruses. Most of these guy's views are derived from reddit, 4chan, youtube, etc. I doubt there's a single Gen-Z'er that's even old enough to have taken college level social science and economics classes. Quite frankly, it is a bit odd, and I don't really have an answer, even as someone that's been exposed to over a decade of internet culture at every level. I suppose my view might be narrow minded in terms of scope as I'm only observing a very particular brand of people (which I'm sure some people know what I'm talking about), but you get the idea. [QUOTE=HappyCompy;51904706]Makes sense. Perhaps they're more socially conservative, but I highly doubt Gen Z has formed well thought out economic ideologies yet. My money is on them being left of center economically when they come of age. Would be really odd if they weren't. Even Trump voters are to the left of mainstream American conservatives economically, that's how spectacularly Reagonomics have failed.[/QUOTE] pretty much what i wanted to say as well. I've noticed an increasing conservative pull in social issues more than anything else.
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;51904711]aren't millenials the most atheistic generation thus far? it seems your angst carried into adulthood[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/age-distribution/"]no, not really[/URL] [IMG]https://puu.sh/us2vg/81c8a29262.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;51904683]from what i've observed it's definitely a strong reaction to millenials and it is prevalent among every person i know and even among the less politically inclined as thanks to social media. additionally the groups of kids that are the most visibly SJW stereotypes (wearing lgbt shit, dyed hair) are mocked by just about everyone in my highschool for it. i am generalizing things somewhat, but it's obvious that being overtly politically correct is perceived negatively as it's associated with SJWs although there is an edginess aspect to it i don't think anyone can tell at this point whether it's just an edgy phase or not - generations will counter each other.[/QUOTE] Ah, gotcha. Yeah political views and social views are a shit show in high school lol. Brings back memories (fuck I'm old wtf?) Out of curiosity, where would you say you are on the spectrum economically? Or have you not given it much thought?
Thinking about it, you can really attribute a lot of political ideology to formative teenage rebellion. Our rebellion was against people like Bush, the war in Iraq, Organized Religion, and generally "the man" that we saw as producing all the problems in the world. Now "the man" for the past 8 years has been Obama and the dems, and they're behind the perceived problems of the world along with the perceived oppressive nature of political correctness that begets this sort of rebellious attitude. Makes you wonder if this is part of what fuels our pendulum model.
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