“What Is That Box?” — When The NSA Shows Up At Your Internet Company
31 replies, posted
[quote][I]When people say the feds are monitoring what people are doing online, what does that mean? How does that work? When, and where, does it start?
Pete Ashdown, CEO of XMission, an internet service provider in Utah, knows. He received a Foreign Intelligence Service Act (FISA) warrant in 2010 mandating he let the feds monitor one of his customers, through his facility. He also received a broad gag order. In his own words:[/I]
The first thing I do when I get a law enforcement request is look for a court signature on it. Then I pass it to my attorneys and say, “Is this legitimate? Does this qualify as a warrant?” If it does, then we will respond to it. We are very up front that we respond to warrants.
If it isn’t, then the attorneys write back: “We don’t believe it is in jurisdiction or is constitutional. We are happy to respond if you do get an FBI request in jurisdiction or you get a court order to do so.”
The FISA request was a tricky one, because it was a warrant through the FISA court — whether you believe that is legitimate or not. I have a hard time with secret courts. I ran it past my attorney and asked, “Is there anyway we can fight this?” and he said “No. It is legitimate.”
It was also different [from other warrants] because it was for monitoring. They wanted to come in and put in equipment on my network to monitor a single customer. The customer they were monitoring was a particular website that was very benign. It seems ridiculous to me. It was beyond absurd. It wasn’t like a guns and ammo website.
They came in and showed me papers. It was a court order from the FISC (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court) for the intercept, with the agent’s name… and the court’s information. I think it was three or four pages of text. They wouldn’t let met me copy them. They let me take notes in regards to technical aspects of what they wanted to do.[/quote]
[URL="http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock/what-is-that-box-when-the-nsa-shows-up-at-your-internet-comp"]Sauce[/URL]
Hey we want to monitor one of your customers, and uhh you can't say no so yeah.
So it's like a phone tap. (sorta, not really but kind of..)
I bet if the warrant was like all other warrants instead of coming out of some super-secret court then it wouldn't evoke paranoid fantasies.
-edit
but it doesn't so it does :tinfoil:
[quote]The FISA request was a tricky one, because it was a warrant through the FISA court — whether you believe that is legitimate or not. I have a hard time with secret courts. I ran it past my attorney and asked, “Is there anyway we can fight this?” and he said “No. It is legitimate.”[/quote]
...the fuck?
Wow, Xmission just gets better and better: they're one of those companies that if you can get internet from them: you better fucking do it.
They're really open about how and why they do this (point in case this article), and are just overall fucking awesome (They actually have IT certified people when you call support!).
Anyway, there's a few more articles of them talking about the NSA on their own company blog, which is pretty cool: [url]https://transmission.xmission.com/2013/06/10/the-nsa-and-xmission[/url]
[editline]22nd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;41551292]...the fuck?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they publish a lot of stuff that should get them in trouble, they even have a in-depth transparency report: [url]https://xmission.com/transparency[/url]
Too bad this shit is Utah only.
I like how the dude in the article says it's against the bill of rights paragraphs after mentioning they had a legal warrant
Adding the equipment to the network seems like a lot of extra work though.
Couldn't they just use a software solution to route the monitored traffic to the agency office?
.. or would that cause problems I'm not seeing? ( I know more about solder than I do cat5.)
[QUOTE=tirpider;41551340]Adding the equipment to the network seems like a lot of extra work though.
Couldn't they just use a software solution to route the monitored traffic to the agency office?
.. or would that cause problems I'm not seeing? ( I know more about solder than I do cat5.)[/QUOTE]
Not really, Xmission does a TON of peering (They route a shitton of traffic) and are a large backbone of the Utopia and UEN networks (Both of which are high-bandwidth fiber optics).
So it's much easier to attach a piece of hardware that basically copies all data sent/received to a box, and sends the copies out to a address for the NSA/FBI/CIA.
Perhaps it was all a test designed by the NSA to test the integrity of the ISP.
To see if they would tamper with or open the mystery box to see what's inside so the secret courts know who they can trust.
( I think I'm slipping into one of those paranoid fantasies, cause I keep imagining the circle of heads in the old superman movies as the secret court. )
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58361588/Council%20of%20Elders.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=tirpider;41551465]Perhaps it was all a test designed by the NSA to test the integrity of the ISP.
To see if they would tamper with or open the mystery box to see what's inside so the secret courts know who they can trust.
( I think I'm slipping into one of those paranoid fantasies, cause I keep imagining the circle of heads in the old superman movies as the secret court. )[/QUOTE]
If it's what I think it is, we already know how it works and what it does: no need to open it and see how she' ticks.
Remember the constitution?
Me either!
yo yo
[QUOTE=nivek;41551734]Remember the constitution?
Me either![/QUOTE]
But its legal, a warrant issued by a court is a warrant. Even if that court is a secret court.
[QUOTE=Jsm;41552917]But its legal, a warrant issued by a court is a warrant. Even if that court is a secret court.[/QUOTE]
The problem with a 'secret court' is that they can rule whatever the fuck they want, without anyone knowing.
[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;41553180]The problem with a 'secret court' is that they can rule whatever the fuck they want, without anyone knowing.[/QUOTE]
Yes that is a problem and is one of the numerous reasons they are a terrible thing that doesn't belong anywhere near a country claiming to be a democracy.
Doesn't diminish the fact that their warrants are no different to a warrant handed down by a "normal" court.
Doesn't Utah have a huge NSA complex that takes all of the power of some power plant?
This is why I don't find the US to be such a nice place anymore.
Democracy my hairy Iranian ass.
[QUOTE=KommradKommisar;41553737]Doesn't Utah have a huge NSA complex that takes all of the power of some power plant?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Bluffdale datacenter, It's actually pretty cool once you get past the whole spying illegally on citizens thing.
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;41554597]This is why I don't find the US to be such a nice place anymore.
Democracy my hairy Iranian ass.[/QUOTE]
You're iranian? Oh shit we better start snooping your traffic stat
FISA is just a rubber stamp. They haven't denied a single request yet.
Seems weird that a secret court, that nobody can talk about, is constitutional. Or I guess maybe the fact that it's secret, means you can't argue its constitutionality. I dunno
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41557235]FISA is just a rubber stamp. They haven't denied a single request yet.[/QUOTE]
Well that's not entirely true, they have denied 11... over the past 34 years of the cout existing. But it might as well be a rubber stamp.
Xmission?
I bet I know who the customer in particular is.
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;41554597]This is why I don't find the US to be such a nice place anymore.
Democracy my hairy [B]Iranian[/B] ass.[/QUOTE]
terrorist detected
launch the freedom drones
So if they get warrants from a secret court does that make them secret police?
[QUOTE=DeEz;41560624]terrorist detected
launch the freedom drones[/QUOTE]
Go right ahead. We are in the same country, so you'll be bombing yourself too. :v:
[editline]23rd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=mstenger404;41560524]Xmission?
I bet I know who the customer in particular is.[/QUOTE]
Maddox? I bet it is him.
[QUOTE=Jsm;41553548]Yes that is a problem and is one of the numerous reasons they are a terrible thing that doesn't belong anywhere near a country claiming to be a democracy.
Doesn't diminish the fact that their warrants are no different to a warrant handed down by a "normal" court.[/QUOTE]
It's a weird unconstitutional way to circumvent due process without you realizing it.
[quote]“What Is That Box?”[/quote]
[img]http://www.androidguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/brad_pitt_7_box.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Generic Monk;41572979][img]http://www.androidguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/brad_pitt_7_box.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]"what's in the boooooox :("
[QUOTE=scout1;41551337]I like how the dude in the article says it's against the bill of rights paragraphs after mentioning they had a legal warrant[/QUOTE]
You really are the most insufferable poster on Facepunch today, aren't you? Constantly time and time again you delve your hands into the pot of shit and stir it furiously like a child with clay and then you lick the creamy, brown mess off your hands and grin with gree and satisfaction that you have started a fight on an itnernet forum.
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