UN investigation: Both sides in Syria guilty of war crimes, but government forces are worse

[smurfy]

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19273284[/url]

[quote=BBC News][B]Syrian troops and militia were behind the Houla massacre of 108 people in May, UN investigators have found.[/B]

The massacre was considered one of the worst attacks on civilians since the start of the uprising in March 2011.

An inquiry appointed by the UN Human Rights Council has said war crimes have been carried out by both opposition groups and government forces.

It alleges that systematic violations have been authorised at the highest levels of the Syrian government.

Murder, torture and sexual violence are given as examples of violations by Syrian forces in the 104-page report, which looks at events between February 2012 and late July.

During that time, the report says, ever more brutal tactics are being used.

It finds opposition forces guilty of war crimes but not of the same gravity or on the same frequency or scale as those blamed on government forces.

In particular, government troops and pro-government shabiha militia are found responsible for the killings at Taldou in the Houla area on 25 May, in which 108 people including 49 children died.

Although the Damascus government did not allow the team into Syria, the investigators spoke to almost 700 people, including civilians and former soldiers who have fled to neighbouring countries.[/quote]

[url=http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/RegularSession/Session21/A-HRC-21-50.doc]The full report[/url] (Word document)

Here's the report's summary, with their major findings bolded

[quote=UN Human Rights Council]The situation of human rights in the Syrian Arab Republic has deteriorated significantly since 15 February 2012. Armed violence increased in intensity and spread to new areas. Active hostilities raged between Government forces (and the Shabbiha) and anti-Government armed groups. Sporadic clashes between the armed actors evolved into continuous combat, involving more brutal tactics and new military capabilities on both sides. The level of armed violence varied throughout the country.

During the reporting period, the commission of inquiry determined that the intensity and duration of the conflict, combined with the increased organizational capabilities of anti-Government armed groups, had met the legal threshold for a non-international armed conflict. The commission therefore applied both international humanitarian law and international human rights law in its assessment of the actions of the parties to the hostilities.

The commission found reasonable grounds to believe that [B]Government forces and the Shabbiha had committed the crimes against humanity of murder and of torture, war crimes and gross violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law, including unlawful killing, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, sexual violence, indiscriminate attack, pillaging and destruction of property. The commission found that Government forces and Shabbiha members were responsible for the killings in Al-Houla[/B].

[B]The commission confirms its previous finding that violations were committed pursuant to State policy[/B]. Large-scale operations conducted in different governorates, their similar modus operandi, their complexity and integrated military-security apparatus indicate the [B]involvement at the highest levels of the armed and security forces and the Government[/B]. The Shabbiha were identified as perpetrators of many of the crimes described in the present report. Although the nature, composition and hierarchy of the Shabbiha remains unclear, credible information led to the conclusion that [B]they acted in concert with Government forces[/B].

The commission found reasonable grounds to believe that [B]war crimes, including murder, extrajudicial execution and torture, had been perpetrated by organized anti-Government armed groups[/B]. Although not a party to the Geneva Conventions, these groups must abide by the principles of international humanitarian law. The violations and abuses committed by anti-Government armed groups [B]did not reach the gravity, frequency and scale of those committed by Government forces and the Shabbiha[/B].

[B]Both groups violated the rights of children.[/B]

The commission is unaware of efforts meeting international standards made by either the Government or anti-Government armed groups to prevent or punish the crimes documented in the present report.

The lack of access significantly hampered the commission’s ability to fulfil its mandate. Its access to Government officials and to members of the armed and security forces was negligible. Importantly, victims and witnesses inside the country could not be interviewed in person.

A confidential list of individuals and units believed to be responsible for crimes against humanity, breaches of international humanitarian law and gross human rights violations will be submitted to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights at the close of the commission’s current mandate, in September 2012.

The commission reiterates that [B]the best solution is a negotiated settlement involving an inclusive and meaningful dialogue among all parties, leading to a political transition[/B] that reflects the legitimate aspirations of all segments of Syrian society, including ethnic and religious minorities.[/quote]

[Persecution]

Fucking monsters.

[yawmwen]

And people honestly want to support a group that slaughters innocent people?

[Milk]

Russia should get off the support train, like now.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;37250488]Russia should get off the support train, like now.[/QUOTE]

As should the USA.

[dunkace]

Finally they have realized that the Anti-goverment are not so fucking innocent.

[JennyC6]

Breaking news: War is full of death and destruction. More at 11!

Seriously, was this in any way not expected? The country's in a full blown civil war. [i]of course both sides have blood on their hands.[/i] Our own civil war was no less bloody, nor was anyone else's.

[Mr. Someguy]

People didn't know this? I thought it was pretty much a given.

Funny how once people realise the opposition aren't all angels, they jump off the support bandwagon.

[MrEndangered]

Just because the rebels are committing war crimes doesn't mean that [I]if[/I] they win the same people will be elected.

Keep supporting the rebels, but leave it at medical supplies and food.

[mac338]

I'm actually surprised that the government has been committing more war crimes than the rebels considering there's little structure to the rebels and they act as individuals, but okay.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;37251108]Just because the rebels are committing war crimes doesn't mean that [I]if[/I] they win the same people will be elected.

Keep supporting the rebels, but leave it at medical supplies and food.[/QUOTE]

How about we support the refugees with medical supplies and food, and let the rebels and government just fight it out?

[PassTheBong]

i'd love to fight for the FSA though. every time i watch rebel videos it really itches me to play bf3

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=PassTheBong;37251168]i'd love to fight for the FSA though. every time i watch rebel videos it really itches me to play bf3[/QUOTE]

BF3 and real war are so much alike!

[JennyC6]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37251186]BF3 and real war are so much alike![/QUOTE]

Just make sure you are on the same team as the guy ramming jets into snipers on cranes and throwing C4 at people instead of using a gun.

[smurfy]

[QUOTE=mac338;37251114]I'm actually surprised that the government has been committing more war crimes than the rebels considering there's little structure to the rebels and they act as individuals, but okay.[/QUOTE]

One of the biggest things in the report is it says war crimes are a 'state policy' of the government forces, so the structure is actually resulting in more war crimes.

[quote]135. Whether members of Government forces or anti-Government groups, those who intentionally commit the crimes identified in the present report bear responsibility. In addition, those who order these crimes to be committed (or plan, instigate, incite, aid or abet) are also liable. [B]The commission received consistent evidence that mid- and high-ranking members of Government forces were directly involved in illegal acts.[/B] Defectors stated that commanders ordered their subordinates to shoot civilians and hors de combat fighters, and to torture and mistreat detainees. [B]Orders were often enforced at gunpoint, and anyone hesitating to comply risked arrest or summary execution.[/B] Evidence showed that widespread looting and destruction of property occurred with the acquiescence of commanders.

138. Extensive coverage of events, including the likely occurrence of violations and crimes, led the commission to conclude that military commanders and civilian superiors at the highest levels of Government must have known about such events.

139. The same applied to abuses and crimes committed by anti-Government armed groups. Local-level commanders acknowledged some of the acts described in interviews.

136. Leadership within anti-Government armed groups was also implicated in the war crimes and human rights abuses detailed in the present report. Local commanders either ordered the execution of captured members of Government forces and the Shabbiha or killed them themselves.[/quote]

It seems the 'fairytale villain' image of the Syrian Army that some people had is actually pretty true. Also many of the crimes have been committed by shabiha militia, but the report says they seem to be coordinating with the government, meaning the regime bears ultimate responsibility.

[quote]133. Eyewitnesses consistently identified the Shabbiha as perpetrators of many of the crimes described in the present report. Although the nature, composition, hierarchy and structure of this group remains opaque, credible information led to the conclusion that Shabbiha members acted with the acquiescence of, in concert with or at the behest of Government forces. International human rights law recognizes the responsibility of States that commit violations through proxies.[/quote]

[POLOPOZOZO]

Oh wow rebels murdering, executing, and torturing because rebels [I]never[/I] do that.

[smurfy]

It seems the report is structured so there's a section for each crime, and then two subsections for the two sides. I'm going to compare and post my findings for science

[Chernarus]

In my opinion both sides are stupid, and both super powers are stupid. They should just get together and talk.. oh wait nevermind forgot the super powers had interests of their own instead of helping the people of Syria.

[-Get_A_Life-]

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;37251108]Keep supporting the rebels, but leave it at medical supplies and food.[/QUOTE]

Have a no-fly zone to reduce risks of civilian casualties due to bombardments and help the refugees. Leave it at that. This is a civil war, we don't have to get involved aside from helping the civilians.

[AzureAngelic]

if you ask me what makes the morality debate so frustrating is whether or not the rebels actually had to commit war crimes

i'm not going to try and make the rebels look innocent but at the same time i can only wonder how much of their offenses were done purely to further their goals and how much was because the government is throwing human rights out the window

"if they're willing to do x to win then we have to be willing to do the same" etc

war crimes or not i still don't see how anyone could support the government over the rebels, although i wouldn't be surprised if we see more neutrality

[smurfy]

These are the conclusions from each section. The first quote for each crime is government forces, the second is the rebels. You should read the actual report though, what if I've just made this shit right up? You'll never know, [url=http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/RegularSession/Session21/A-HRC-21-50.doc]go on[/url] it isn't that bad to skim through

[b]Unlawful killing[/b]

[quote]52. Most unlawful killings occurred in the context of attacks against the strongholds of anti-Government armed groups ... On securing the area, Government forces undertook house-to-house searches. Defectors, activists and fighting-age men were systematically sought out during these operations. Wounded or captured anti-Government fighters were executed. In some cases, family members of fighters, defectors and activists, as well as others who appeared to have been randomly selected, were also executed.

56. Attacks were frequently directed against civilians and civilian objects. Although the Government’s stated aim was to attack “terrorists”, the attacks were directed at neighbourhoods, towns and regions with civilian populations (see annex VI). The commission therefore concludes that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the war crime of attacking civilians was perpetrated in many instances.

57. There are also [B]reasonable grounds to believe that the documented incidents constituted the crime against humanity of murder[/B]. In towns and villages where there was a pattern of blockade, shelling, ground assault and house-to-house searches, [B]the conditions for a widespread or systematic attack against a predominately civilian population were met[/B]. The scale of the attacks, their repetitive nature, the level of excessive force consistently used, the indiscriminate nature of the shelling and the coordinated nature of the attacks led the commission to conclude that [B]they had been conducted pursuant to State policy[/B]. [/quote]

[quote]58. Despite its limited access to victims of anti-Government armed groups, [B]the commission was able to document cases of killing by anti-Government fighters of captured Government soldiers, Shabbiha and informers[/B] who admitted taking part in military attacks (see annex V).

59. The commission considered corroborated evidence of killing hors de combat soldiers and Shabbiha. In Al Qusayr, Bab Amr, Qaldiya and elsewhere, the commission noted that persons captured by anti-Government armed groups on occasion faced a quasi-judicial process prior to their execution. A consistent account of the trial process has not been forthcoming, nor has information on the extent of adherence to fair trial standards. Executing a prisoner without affording fundamental judicial guarantees is a war crime.

60. The commission concluded that information on executions perpetrated by anti-Government armed groups — with or without a “trial” — constituted reasonable grounds to believe that [B]the war crimes of murder or of sentencing or execution without due process had been committed on several occasions[/B]. The commission was not able to corroborate alleged attacks directed against individual civilians not participating in hostilities or against a civilian population.
[/quote]

[b]Torture and other forms of ill-treatment[/b]

[quote]83. The commission confirms its previous finding that torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment were committed by Government forces and Shabbiha, in violation of the State’s obligations under international humanitarian law and international human rights law.

84. The commission determined that severe pain was inflicted upon persons in official and unofficial detention centres, during house searches and at checkpoints. It also found that torture was inflicted to punish, to humiliate or to extract information. Much of the physical violence described by interviewees has been found to constitute torture by various international tribunals (see annex II).

85. The commission found reasonable grounds to believe that [B]torture was perpetrated as part of a widespread attack[/B] directed against civilians by Government forces and Shabbiha who had knowledge of the attack. It concludes that [B]torture as a crime against humanity and as a war crime was committed[/B] by Government forces and Shabbiha members. Members of security forces, in particular military and air force intelligence, appear to be primarily responsible for torture and ill-treatment. The commission noted the involvement of Shabbiha members in acts of torture in unofficial detention centres in Homs in February and March.

86. The commission found that conduct such as forcibly shaving detainees and forcing them to imitate dogs constitutes cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. Similarly, the conditions of detention as described in interviews constitute cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees.[/quote]

[quote]88. The commission found reasonable grounds to believe that [B]torture and other forms of ill-treatment were committed by anti-Government armed groups[/B] during interrogation of captured members of Government forces and the Shabbiha. It determines that severe pain was inflicted to punish, to humiliate or to extract information.

89. The commission determines, however, that the [B]acts of torture were not committed as part of either a widespread or systematic attack on a civilian population[/B]; therefore, [B]they do not constitute crimes against humanity, but may be prosecutable as war crimes.[/B][/quote]

[B]Violation of children's rights[/B]

[quote]107. There were reports of the arbitrary arrest and detention of children. Children described having been beaten, whipped with electrical cables, burned with cigarettes and subjected to electrical shocks to the genitals. There were multiple reports of detained minors held in the same cells as adults.

108. The commission received reports of the rape and sexual assault of girls under the age of 18 (see annex VII).

109. No evidence of Government forces formally conscripting or enlisting children under the age of 18 was received. However, three incidents were documented in which Government forces used children as hostages or as human shields.

110. Schools in various locations across the Syrian Arab Republic were looted, vandalized and burned in response to student protests. Various accounts described their use by Government forces and Shabbiha members as military staging grounds, temporary bases and sniper posts (see paragraphs 116–125 below).

112. Evidence gathered indicated that [B]children’s rights continue to be violated by Government forces and the Shabbiha[/B]. The legal conclusions reached in annexes IV, V, VII, VIII and IX apply.

113. [B]The detention of adults and children together is in breach of the Government’s obligations under the Convention on the Rights of the Child, unless a separation breaches the right of families to be housed together[/B].[/quote]

[quote]114. Eleven interviewees, including four minors, discussed the use of children by anti-Government armed groups. All stated that [B]anti-Government armed groups, including the FSA, used children in support roles[/B], such as assisting medical evacuations or as couriers. Five interviewees stated that the anti-Government armed groups used children under the age of 18 — and in one account, under 15 — as fighters.

115. The commission considers that there is currently [B]insufficient information to find that anti-Government armed groups used children under the age of 15 to participate actively in hostilities[/B]. It notes with concern, however, the reports that [B]children under 18 are fighting and performing auxiliary roles for anti-Government armed groups[/B].[/quote]

[B]Pillaging and destruction of property[/B]

[quote]126. The commission received corroborated reports of the pillaging, destruction and burning of property by Government forces and Shabbiha members during its military operations. Where such acts occurred during house searches, the commission documented dozens of cases of looting of property, including of money, vehicles, jewellery and electrical goods.

127. Those interviewed indicated that searches, and thus the pillaging, burning and destruction of property, targeted groups and individuals who appeared to be defectors, members of anti-Government armed groups, demonstrators, and family members of the aforementioned. In particular, family members of defectors described how their homes, farms and shops were burned. In some instances, the looting, burning and destruction of property appeared to be directed at entire communities rather than at specific individuals.

129. There are reasonable grounds to believe that [B]Government forces and Shabbiha members committed the war crime of pillage[/B]. The commission also determined that Government forces and Shabbiha members engaged in the destruction and burning of property during house searches.[/quote]

[quote]130. The commission received [B]no reports of the pillaging or destruction of property by anti-Government armed groups, but lack of access to Syrian Arab Republic hampered investigations[/B]. The Government provided information relating to crimes allegedly perpetrated by anti-Government armed groups, including looting and vehicle theft, which the commission was unable to corroborate. Consequently, the commission was unable to reach any findings regarding the alleged pillaging, burning and destruction of property by anti-Government armed groups.[/quote]

[B]Attacks on protected persons and objects[/B]

[quote]123. The commission finds reasonable grounds to believe that [B]Government forces acted in violation of international humanitarian law by targeting members of the Syrian Arab Red Crescent. These acts may also be prosecutable as a war crime[/B]. Furthermore, by positioning its military assets, which are legitimate targets of enemy forces, inside civilian objects, [B]Government forces are violating the international humanitarian law principle of distinction. Government forces have also violated international humanitarian law by deliberately shelling field clinics[/B].[/quote]

[quote]125. The commission was [B]unable to corroborate allegations of anti-Government groups targeting civilians or civilian objects[/B].[/quote]

The following sections are not split into subsections, and don't mention the rebels.

[B]Arbitrary detention and enforced disappearance[/B]

[quote]71. There are reasonable grounds to believe that Government forces arbitrarily arrested and detained individuals. Of particular concern are the detention of individuals without charge, the failure to provide detainees with legal counsel or family visits and the absence in most cases of any form of judicial review.

72. Regarding enforced disappearance, families of those arrested were not informed at the time of arrest or at any point thereafter of the place of detention of their relatives. In most cases, families were unaware of their relatives’ place of detention.

73. Where the Government refuses to acknowledge the arrest and detention or to disclose the fate of the person concerned, [B]the crime of enforced disappearance has been committed[/B].[/quote]

[B]Indiscriminate attacks[/B]

[quote]94. On the basis of its findings, the commission determined that the legal threshold for an indiscriminate attack as a violation of customary international humanitarian law was reached. Government forces fired shells into areas inhabited by civilians while failing to direct them at a specific military objective.

95. Moreover, the attacks, especially shelling, caused incidental loss of civilian life and injury to civilians, as well as damage to civilian objects. There are reasonable grounds to believe that [B]the damage was excessive when compared to the anticipated military advantage[/B].[/quote]

[b]Sexual violence[/b]

[quote]101. The commission finds reasonable grounds to believe rape and sexual assault were perpetrated against men, women and children by Government forces and Shabbiha members. Rape and sexual assault were also part of torture in official and unofficial detention centres.

102. Having previously determined that military operations such as those in Homs in February and March and in Al Haffe in June were part of a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population, the commission finds that [B]the rapes committed during these attacks, made with knowledge of the attacks, could be prosecuted as crimes against humanity[/B].[/quote]

Where the anti-government sections are shorter, that's because they are shorter in the report. I didn't cut them down to make the rebels look better, [url=http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/RegularSession/Session21/A-HRC-21-50.doc]read that shit[/url] and see for yourself