The leaning bar thing annoys me. My former wife had a condition where if she stood for too long, especially when standing still for long periods of time, she would pass out. This resulted in her needing to sit on the floor, or grass in areas where there just weren't any benches.
In some parts of Santiago you can see where vertical metal bars were installed on concrete structures like planters for example. I'm almost certain this was done to prevent people from lower economic classes from sitting on them and selling various goods, which is what happens fairly commonly, and did happen in an area I work at until those bars were installed.
Defensive architecture is such idiocracy it's almost astounding. It's one thing not wanting to spend your money on trying to fix homelessness, but it's another to spend money to make it even worse for the homeless. They might as well have a shockcollar on that would randomly jolt them whenever they're trying to sleep. Sure fuck it, why not just install spiked buttplugs on benches, because at least people wont have to look at homeless people, let's just forget that they're still human beings and shouldn't be treated like a fucking pigeon. Goddamn this pisses me off so much.
Some of the metro stations I use have one of the dumbest defensive design I ever seen, with individual seats facing opposite directions :
[img]https://i.imgur.com/R64IoKH.jpg[/img]
They're pretty awkward to use when you travel with friends.
[QUOTE=StoneRabbit;52933310]Some of the metro stations I use have one of the dumbest defensive design I ever seen, with individual seats facing opposite directions :
[img]https://i.imgur.com/R64IoKH.jpg[/img]
They're pretty awkward to use when you travel with friends.[/QUOTE]
These actually look like you can lie down on them
There was a case in Dublin where studs were put on the fucking ground in a sheltered area around an apartment complex to deter rough sleepers. The residents actually petitioned the landlord to have it removed, as they had never any issue with the homeless that slept there and found it to be barbaric.
There are many more ways urban cities control your behavior, and just about every generic top 10 channel has a video on them. They're also designed to keep you moving, as well as behaving - such as with all those empty police cars in crowded cities.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52933313]These actually look like you can lie down on them[/QUOTE]
Just like many of the benches shown on the video.
Lying down is a thing, being comfortable is another.
It seems pretty ridiculous that city planners would rather spend probable millions deterring homeless people rather than setting up somewhere they can go instead.
When I was homeless in Hamilton Ontario about two years ago, there was literally almost nowhere to sleep because of this kind of design. You pretty much had to be lucky enough to get into a shelter or else cardboard was pretty much the only option.
The worst example was this one less-frequented park where they designed the only structure there (A small public pavilion) to have the sides open but only in the direction the wind blew hardest essentially turning it into a wind tunnel. You could tell it was designed that way because everything was rounded exactly where there would have been wind-coverage before.
Its really shitty and unfortunate when all you want to do is sleep not to freeze to death
It's mad how the "dilemma" is homeless people's comfort and shelter vs. people having homeless people in their field of vision. The latter just have to suck it up.
I thought all this was pretty much common knowledge
[QUOTE=kapin_krunch;52933387]It seems pretty ridiculous that city planners would rather spend probable millions deterring homeless people rather than setting up somewhere they can go instead.[/QUOTE]
It's cheaper to implement these systems than to setup shelters. Even when it's not cheaper, it's a lot easier to slip them into budgets. Nobody blinks an eye at benches that cost a bit more when you're renovating a park, but allocating a few hundred thousand a year to a soup kitchen sticks out like a sore thumb.
Add on the fact that discouraging loitering does in fact reduce crime, and there's very little incentive not to go with designs like this. It's simply a better fiscal policy to have adversarial designs, and that holds true right up until the threshold where you start falling afoul of the ADA.
Note that I don't agree with the morality of this; this is just the lens through which this topic is viewed by policy makers.
In America, people associate the homeless with the insane due to the incredibly high percentage of homeless that have mental disorders which prevent them from ascertaining work since the big Reagan-era defunding of mental health care. In my area of the United States, people aren't disgusted with homeless people so much as they're afraid of insane people.
I want to see a video with homeless/survivalist dudes trolling this bullshit with a bunch of wooden boards and nails.
Honestly there really is something incredibly shitty about putting so much thought into making things deliberately uncomfortable.
Maybe a lot more issues could be alleviated by giving homeless people regular soapy baths and free toxidoes and haircuts, so that way they just look like regular dudes sleeping outside instead of looking decrepit. (even though I don't even like treating homeless people from the eyesore perspective)
And some public benches would have a condition such as "if you want to sleep here, please go to this nearby address for your suit, your bath, and your haircut.
It could also be possible to have walled off dedicated "sleeping" spaces that are like an array of benches behind a shed sort of thing that was comfortable to sleep in, like an ultra basic shelter.
Locking dumpsters to prevent people from eating from them is also extremely disgusting, and that shit needs to stop as well.
[QUOTE=Sanjuaro;52933280]The leaning bar thing annoys me. My former wife had a condition where if she stood for too long, especially when standing still for long periods of time, she would pass out. This resulted in her needing to sit on the floor, or grass in areas where there just weren't any benches.
In some parts of Santiago you can see where vertical metal bars were installed on concrete structures like planters for example. I'm almost certain this was done to prevent people from lower economic classes from sitting on them and selling various goods, which is what happens fairly commonly, and did happen in an area I work at until those bars were installed.[/QUOTE]
I'm convinced that there will be some lawsuits regarding things like the leaning bars, at least in the states. Posture is becoming increasingly in vogue because ours is a generation that spends the majority of the day hunched over tiny devices. There are tons of people with chronic back pain in their 30s and 40s now. A lot of the low back benches and things like these leaning bars encourage abysmal posture.
It seems inevitable at this point. Someone with a back injury is going to aggravate something, and then there's going to be a lawsuit and public sympathy/outcry over neglect of the disabled. A bunch of ergonomic specialists are going to get called in to analyze the situation, and there's going to be some push when the verdict is that these things are awful for everyone.
Mark my words, someone is going to use this as part of a political platform. It won't be today. It won't be tomorrow. It probably won't be for the better part of a decade at least. But it will happen. I have no idea how the policies will change, or even if they will change, but it will become a hot topic for debate at some point.
Maybe tiny portable devices should have ultra advanced physiological sensors where they only work if the user has excellent posture atleast 50% of the time when using them.
Or "to use this device, do a mighty eagle stand for atleast 40 seconds and stretch your fingers"
I get so mad at this kind of bullshit. What do you want homeless people to do? Go through their lives without sleeping? Kindly commit seppuku so you don't have to look at them anymore?
NIMBY is an unrealistic policy if everyone is NIMBYing.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52933996]I get so mad at this kind of bullshit. What do you want homeless people to do? Go through their lives without sleeping? Kindly commit seppuku so you don't have to look at them anymore?
NIMBY is an unrealistic policy if everyone is NIMBYing.[/QUOTE]
It's that bullshit idea of "go be homeless somewhere else"
[QUOTE=Bo!;52933309]Defensive architecture is such idiocracy it's almost astounding. It's one thing not wanting to spend your money on trying to fix homelessness, but it's another to spend money to make it even worse for the homeless. They might as well have a shockcollar on that would randomly jolt them whenever they're trying to sleep. Sure fuck it, why not just install spiked buttplugs on benches, because at least people wont have to look at homeless people, let's just forget that they're still human beings and shouldn't be treated like a fucking pigeon. Goddamn this pisses me off so much.[/QUOTE]
Not all of this kind of design is against homeless people
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52934577]Not all of this kind of design is against homeless people[/QUOTE]
most of it is just to stop people loitering
Tokyo skips the middle man and just doesn't have public seating.
Or bins for that matter. You can walk ten blocks and literally encounter more convenience stores than public seating or public bins.
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;52934648]Tokyo skips the middle man and just doesn't have public seating.
Or bins for that matter. You can walk ten blocks and literally encounter more convenience stores than public seating or public bins.[/QUOTE]
Parks, even the small ones, have public seating. Most of the city is so densely packed with buildings and other infrastructure, maybe they deemed it unnecessary or a waste of space. As for the absence of bins, I think this is a cultural thing. I believe it's viewed as disrespectful to eat while walking around i n the city (with the exception of some streets littered with street food vendors), so most people go inside to eat.
Correct me if this is wrong though.
[QUOTE=butre;52934628]most of it is just to stop people loitering[/QUOTE]
Which inevitably ends up targeting homeless most of the time since they have, well, nowhere to be except the city
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52934577]Not all of this kind of design is against homeless people[/QUOTE]
What they're designed for doesn't matter at all, it might be made to deter loitering, but fact of the matter is that it still hits the homeless the hardest. The original design is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=Natrox;52934790]Parks, even the small ones, have public seating. Most of the city is so densely packed with buildings and other infrastructure, maybe they deemed it unnecessary or a waste of space.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna say nope
[t]https://i.imgur.com/0minVDl.jpg[/t]
This was what most of the main street of Akihabara was like when I went there. Plenty of crappy gardens and big trees and bike rack and space in between those things. Not one spot to sit along the entire thing. Nothing in the side streets either.
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;52934939]I'm gonna say nope
[t]https://i.imgur.com/0minVDl.jpg[/t]
This was what most of the main street of Akihabara was like when I went there. Plenty of crappy gardens and big trees and bike rack and space in between those things. Not one spot to sit along the entire thing. Nothing in the side streets either.[/QUOTE]
I've been there not long ago. Most people sit on the railing there. Why do you think they don't have benches?
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;52934939]I'm gonna say nope
[t]https://i.imgur.com/0minVDl.jpg[/t]
This was what most of the main street of Akihabara was like when I went there. Plenty of crappy gardens and big trees and bike rack and space in between those things. Not one spot to sit along the entire thing. Nothing in the side streets either.[/QUOTE]
akibahara is kind of a weird case, being a major tourist destination full of people more interested in shopping than sleeping. anyone who needs a nap is well accommodated for in the form of 24 hour cafes
[QUOTE=Sanjuaro;52933280]The leaning bar thing annoys me. My former wife had a condition where if she stood for too long, especially when standing still for long periods of time, she would pass out. This resulted in her needing to sit on the floor, or grass in areas where there just weren't any benches.
In some parts of Santiago you can see where vertical metal bars were installed on concrete structures like planters for example. I'm almost certain this was done to prevent people from lower economic classes from sitting on them and selling various goods, which is what happens fairly commonly, and did happen in an area I work at until those bars were installed.[/QUOTE]
Yeah similar situation with my mum, these shitty things have started popping up around England and sometimes she'll just have to sit on the floor, which is not very nice.
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;52934939]I'm gonna say nope
[t]https://i.imgur.com/0minVDl.jpg[/t]
This was what most of the main street of Akihabara was like when I went there. Plenty of crappy gardens and big trees and bike rack and space in between those things. Not one spot to sit along the entire thing. Nothing in the side streets either.[/QUOTE]
that sure looks like a park
yes public seating is very rare in tokyo but akihabara isn't really a good example, akihabara sucks
it does exist within the ticket gates of most stations and sometimes along the roads of areas away from the most central parts, and also in all parks like natrox said
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