Thank you Eidos!
Devs listening to the community is a great thing. Plus I am so turning that annoying as fuck glow off.
Awesome.
I love them
Great, I thought it was pretty annoying as well, even though it makes sense story-wise.
As I've said in the megathread it didn't seem bad in that situation and I'm gonna try it with and without. Objective markers definitely need to be off though.
I'm still surprised people bitched [i]that[/i] much about fucking highlighting.
Listening to the community is what makes a game company great
How about the retarded animations that play when you stealth kill?
Its nice to see that they litsen to the fans, but did they just seriously make a whole video about how they implemented a thing in the video options to turn off an interface feature? This shit should come naturally like in, mmh, maybe all other games and not be a specially announced special feature thing. Maybe make some of the major stuff optional, like the 3rd person switching? Now that would be something to make a video about.
[QUOTE=The_Marine;29297090]How about the retarded animations that play when you stealth kill?[/QUOTE]
Like the really retarded way Jensen suffocates someone to make them fall unconscious? Yeah, that shit's got to go.
[QUOTE=H4ngman;29297211]Its nice to see that they litsen to the fans, but did they just seriously make a whole video about how they implemented a thing in the video options to turn off an interface feature? This shit should come naturally like in, mmh, maybe all other games and not be a specially announced special feature thing. Maybe make some of the major stuff optional, like the 3rd person switching? Now that would be something to make a video about.[/QUOTE]
Switching to the 3rd person inside cover has to do with player character vs player senses.
The player character can (if he were real, obviously) feel the cover and has an awareness of where his limbs are.
The player does not. In first person, you have no way of knowing how well covered you are. You also have to coordinate yourself to look past cover to see what is beyond whatever you are hiding behind, something which is trivial to do if you are actually the player character, but tedious as the player.
Good games realize that the player character knows more about the world than the player does. This is both because the player character has senses that the player simply doesn't possess in the game world, as well as the fact that the player character has knowledge from training and living in the game world. Deus Ex tries to bridge the gap properly.
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;29300358]Like the really retarded way Jensen suffocates someone to make them fall unconscious? Yeah, that shit's got to go.[/QUOTE]
No, I mean all of the animations that disrupt the flow.
I just want to sneak up on someone and kill them without their knowing it... I don't want to watch scripted flow breaking animations every time I kill someone using stealth.
Also, get rid of the cover system.
Crouching behind cover and leaning around corners is fine.
Well you don't have to use the cover system, you can just crouch behind cover
I'll do it like that if it's actually applicable
[QUOTE=The_Marine;29307448]No, I mean all of the animations that disrupt the flow.
I just want to sneak up on someone and kill them without their knowing it... I don't want to watch scripted flow breaking animations every time I kill someone using stealth.
Also, get rid of the cover system.
Crouching behind cover and leaning around corners is fine.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you just pop them in the head with a silenced pistol? Or what about the tranquillizer rifle?
"Scripted, flow-breaking animations" only take place if you trigger them with a non-lethal takedown.
The cover system is entirely optional - meaning you don't have to use it if you don't want to.
Leaning is not present, but Christ is that mechanic outdated.
How is leaning outdated
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;29314383]How is leaning outdated[/QUOTE]
It's very clunky.
I don't see how it's any clunkier than a 3rd person cover system
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;29314528]I don't see how it's any clunkier than a 3rd person cover system[/QUOTE]
I've played Rainbow Six Vegas 2, which uses the exact same cover system that will feature in Human Revolution.
The cover system works incredibly well, and it's my favourite type of cover system.
The reason I disliked the Vegas games was because they transferred between first person and third person view :saddowns:
And that they were casual versions of earlier Rainbow Six games but that's irrelevant here
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;29314970]I've played Rainbow Six Vegas 2, which uses the exact same cover system that will feature in Human Revolution.
The cover system works incredibly well, and it's my favourite type of cover system.[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking kidding me?
Pressing Q or E to peek around corners is clunky?
And yet you like it when you get glued to a wall and suddenly have a 3rd eye that sees all around you and you can then "blind fire"(yet somehow you still have the ability to aim where you fire hmm) from where you are without even having your character look around the corner?
It's so cheap.
The cover system works with the combat/stealth. If you used lean with the stealth system in this then you would be spotted 24/7. The AI isn't going to just doubt you once they've spotted your head popping around the corner, they will come right at you. They would need to put full body awareness in for leaning to work and that would fuck with the health system.
[QUOTE=The_Marine;29316175]Are you fucking kidding me?
Pressing Q or E to peek around corners is clunky?
And yet you like it when you get glued to a wall and suddenly have a 3rd eye that sees all around you and you can then "blind fire"(yet somehow you still have the ability to aim where you fire hmm) from where you are without even having your character look around the corner?
It's so cheap.[/QUOTE]
Then don't use the cover system.
Leaning with 'Q' and 'E' simply isn't practical any more.
Even games like Crysis 2 have dropped conventional leaning for a hybrid 1st-person cover-lean system which works much better than the awkward leaning system seen in games like Deus Ex 1 and Crysis 1.
[editline]20th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=spekter;29316658]The cover system works with the combat/stealth. If you used lean with the stealth system in this then you would be spotted 24/7. The AI isn't going to just doubt you once they've spotted your head popping around the corner, they will come right at you. They would need to put full body awareness in for leaning to work and that would fuck with the health system.[/QUOTE]
Conventional leaning can sometimes be an immersion breaker when used in a stealth situation, as seen in Deus Ex 1 where popping your head out of cover for a few seconds to let an enemy see you, then hiding will result in the enemy brushing it off as if nothing had happened.
[QUOTE=spekter;29316658]The cover system works with the combat/stealth. If you used lean with the stealth system in this then you would be spotted 24/7. The AI isn't going to just doubt you once they've spotted your head popping around the corner, they will come right at you. They would need to put full body awareness in for leaning to work and that would fuck with the health system.[/QUOTE]
Such is the life of a sneak.
There's supposed to be risks.
You're supposed to use the world to your advantage.
Foot steps, shadows, really anything that lets you know what's going on around you.
Hell, they can implement some kind of hand held inspection tool to see around corners and such too, anything to remove the need for a fucking cover system.
And enough with the "don't like it? don't use it" argument, the mechanic is going to be there and chances are that the game will be molded around said mechanic and as such I'll be forced to use it.
Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid both are in third person and both have plenty of good stealth action. True SC relied on light more than anything but line of sight and sound still play out the same regardless of perspective, you still have the risk of alerting people the same, you just have a better view of whats going on.
Not to mention if you're spotted its not like you can easily deal with a ton of enemies, this games pretty much 3-4 shots and you're dead. If you're going stealth route and you don't have good firepower you're gonna be fucked if you have x amount of enemies on your ass.
Iirc, Splinter Cell's cover system was more or less just leaning against walls to hide.
You couldn't be a total bad ass and unload a massive armament of weapons at the enemy from cover.
Hell, this is Deus Ex... they have all sorts of robotics and such that they could use to compensate for peering around corners.
Robotic eye that you pluck out of your head and hold around a corner anyone?
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;29316712]Then don't use the cover system.
Leaning with 'Q' and 'E' simply isn't practical any more.
Even games like Crysis 2 have dropped conventional leaning for a hybrid 1st-person cover-lean system which works much better than the awkward leaning system seen in games like Deus Ex 1 and Crysis 1.[/quote]
Crysis 2 doesn't let you lean around all corners, and objects with physics applied to them (cars) don't allow leaning either. I'd say it's a failed system, but Red Orchestra 2 seems to do it well so far. I agree that leaning keys are not necessary today, but replacing them with a third person view is just lazy.
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;29316712]
Conventional leaning can sometimes be an immersion breaker when used in a stealth situation, as seen in Deus Ex 1 where popping your head out of cover for a few seconds to let an enemy see you, then hiding will result in the enemy brushing it off as if nothing had happened.[/QUOTE]
Being in a third person view and seeing behind corners without actually looking is not immersion breaking, then? It would be fine if the whole game was in 3rd person, but it's not.
Maybe if you hear someone approach or see their shadow, you shouldn't even peek. That would be a perfect stealth system.
[QUOTE=spekter;29316816]Not to mention if you're spotted its not like you can easily deal with a ton of enemies, this games pretty much 3-4 shots and you're dead. If you're going stealth route and you don't have good firepower you're gonna be fucked if you have x amount of enemies on your ass.[/QUOTE]
There hasn't been truly challenging FPS in ages. If playing Stalker with a realism mod where you are outnumbered 20 to 1 and you die from two hits on a good day, usually one, is not challenging, how will Deus Ex be?
[QUOTE=The_Marine;29316873]Robotic eye that you pluck out of your head and hold around a corner anyone?[/QUOTE]
Didn't Garret in Thief have something like that?
[QUOTE=The_Marine;29316748]Such is the life of a sneak.
There's supposed to be risks.
You're supposed to use the world to your advantage.
Foot steps, shadows, really anything that lets you know what's going on around you.
Hell, they can implement some kind of hand held inspection tool to see around corners and such too, anything to remove the need for a fucking cover system.
And enough with the "don't like it? don't use it" argument, the mechanic is going to be there and chances are that the game will be molded around said mechanic and as such I'll be forced to use it.[/QUOTE]
The game world doesn't always model reality with 100% accuracy. Sound bounces in a manner which is difficult to simulate.
I can hear a sound in my house and know exactly where it is coming from. If I were playing a game, I might have a rough idea of the direction, but unless they had ground breaking sound engineering, very little real idea how far away the person ones and the direction they are moving in.
[editline]20th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=The_Marine;29316873]Iirc, Splinter Cell's cover system was more or less just leaning against walls to hide.
You couldn't be a total bad ass and unload a massive armament of weapons at the enemy from cover.
Hell, this is Deus Ex... they have all sorts of robotics and such that they could use to compensate for peering around corners.
Robotic eye that you pluck out of your head and hold around a corner anyone?[/QUOTE]
I don't get the feeling Jensen wants any more parts removed than is necessary.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;29317416]I agree that leaning keys are not necessary today, but replacing them with a third person view is just lazy.[/quote]
Is that objective or subjective?
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;29317416]Being in a third person view and seeing behind corners without actually looking is not immersion breaking, then? It would be fine if the whole game was in 3rd person, but it's not.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that, so please don't put words in my mouth.
Let's just say that [I]I[/I] would rather a 100% functional and practical 3rd-person cover system over an awkward and clumsy 1st-person leaning system.
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;29318661]I didn't say that, so please don't put words in my mouth.[/quote]
Sorry. It just seemed to me that you implied that a 3rd person cover system would be a better solution than a well-functioning 1st person equivalent.
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;29318661]Let's just say that [I]I[/I] would rather a 100% functional and practical 3rd-person cover system over an awkward and clumsy 1st-person leaning system.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
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