French waiters aren’t rude, they merely demand respect - Polidicks

[b]French waiters aren’t rude, they merely demand respect[/b] Source: [url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/french-waiters-rude-respect-service]The Guardian[/url] _________________________ [quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/jQWoGmT.jpg[/img] [i]In France ‘those choosing to work in the service sector are not regarded as the low-paid dregs of society, there to cater to your every whim’.[/i] --- How do you solve a problem like rude French waiters? The impolite maître d’s in French bistros – long held to be the scourge of visiting tourists – could now have a fight on their hands, as the government has intervened. According to Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, France is suffering from a “welcome deficit”, meaning that foreign visitors are 30% less satisfied with their stays in France than in other countries. The Times snippily added that turning France into a “polite and amiable nation” would be a “Herculean task”. To which I say: “Bof.” While some of the proposals, such as giving train announcements in English occasionally, make complete sense, others, such as the shifting of the serving attitude to that of willing supplicant, would require a more profound shift in the national psyche. Furthermore, I tentatively suggest that the perceived rudeness of French waiters may have more to do with you than it does them. I lived in France for a year and never felt less than welcome in my adopted country. And yet many British and American expats I encountered would moan almost constantly about the service. I’ve always suspected that the rudeness you experience in France as a visitor has an almost direct correlation with how much effort that you are prepared to make when it comes to speaking the language, but there are other factors at play here, too. Ultimately, it comes down to the experience of going from an economy that is almost entirely service-based to a country where it isn’t. To a person from Britain, where, since de-industrialisation, our economy seems to have revolved almost entirely round car insurance meerkats, spray tans and, most of all, posh burgers, this may seem strange. In France, the provision of services is not the be-all and end-all. Nor are those choosing to work in the sector regarded as the low-paid dregs of society, there to cater to your every whim.[/quote] You know what they say, "when in France..." In all seriousness, why would tourists (Americans, for instance) expect the same treatment as back home? It's a foreign country with foreign culture... I'm not even French and I'd hate to "lower" my service standards for tourists because they can't be arsed to learn how things are done in France.

[quote]In France ‘those choosing to work in the service sector are not regarded as the low-paid dregs of society, there to cater to your every whim’.[/quote] where [I]is[/I] this the case.

America.

and they deserve respect. waiters and waitresses are super cool

Now that I think of it, the French style sounds pretty similar to what we're used to, over here in BA... unlike the "American style", of waiters hovering over your table constantly, and *demanding* a tip. We tip around here when we consider the service/food/overall experience was worthy of something extra. So I side with them. [editline]12th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Scum;47942529]and they deserve respect. waiters and waitresses are super cool[/QUOTE] I personally measure a people's tendency for scumbag behavior by how they treat waiters. If someone is demeaning/impolite/rude to [I]them[/I], then there's a 99.9% chance that person is an absolute shithead.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47942535]Now that I think of it, the French style sounds pretty similar to what we're used to, over here in BA... unlike the "American style", of waiters hovering your table constantly, and *demanding* a tip. We tip around here when we consider the service/food/overall experience was worthy of something extra. So I side with them. [editline]12th June 2015[/editline] I personally measure a people's tendency for scumbag behavior by how they treat waiters. If someone is demeaning/impolite/rude to [I]them[/I], then there's a 99.9% chance that person is an absolute shithead.[/QUOTE] American waiters probably wouldn't be so demanding of tips if employers payed them a decent working wage.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47942713]American waiters probably wouldn't be so demanding of tips if employers payed them a decent working wage.[/QUOTE] Or even actually a proper minimum wage. From what I know, they get paid way under the minimum wage, relying on tips to make up the difference, so its gone from being a bonus to a job well done to pretty much a necessity.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47942754]Or even actually a proper minimum wage. From what I know, they get paid way under the minimum wage, relying on tips to make up the difference, so its gone from being a bonus to a job well done to pretty much a necessity.[/QUOTE] Average wage for wait staff here is $2.13/hr because that's the legal minimum. (I don't personally know a single place that will pay over $2.50/hr) You NEED tips or you're literally going to starve to death. How do you get tips? You have to say "yes massa sir" and spit shine their boot while they eat or you aren't getting more than a few cents because you're a shitty fucking server who didn't cater to their every whim. Oh you had a very busy section that day? Catering to a LOT of people at once? Yeah fuck you, that's no excuse for not being around 25/8 for my petty complaints and desires. Personally if I eat out I leave a $20 with my waiter/ress because fuck their job (unless they are actually rude to me, then I just give the standard 15% tip). I shouldn't have to give them $30 for a $10 meal, but I do because I feel horrible not doing so.

[QUOTE=draugur;47942857]Average wage for wait staff here is less than $2/hr. You NEED tips or you're literally going to starve to death. How do you get tips? You have to say "yes massa sir" and spit shine their boot while they eat or you aren't getting more than a few cents because you're a shitty fucking server who didn't cater to their every whim. Oh you had a very busy section that day? Catering to a LOT of people at once? Yeah fuck you, that's no excuse for not being around 25/8 for my petty complaints and desires.[/QUOTE] Having been a waiter, in the UK, I know better than most how to treat waiters, hell if I'm eating somewhere, at the end of a meal I'll arrange all the dishes and cutlery to make it was easy as possible for the staff. Hell depending on the type of place, I'll take the dishes back to the bar to make it easier. Although over here tipping isn't quite as standard in the US or at least notmto the same degree.

[QUOTE=draugur;47942857]Average wage for wait staff here is $2.13/hr because that's the legal minimum. (I don't personally know a single place that will pay over $2.50/hr) You NEED tips or you're literally going to starve to death. How do you get tips? You have to say "yes massa sir" and spit shine their boot while they eat or you aren't getting more than a few cents because you're a shitty fucking server who didn't cater to their every whim. Oh you had a very busy section that day? Catering to a LOT of people at once? Yeah fuck you, that's no excuse for not being around 25/8 for my petty complaints and desires. Personally if I eat out I leave a $20 with my waiter/ress because fuck their job (unless they are actually rude to me, then I just give the standard 15% tip). I shouldn't have to give them $30 for a $10 meal, but I do because I feel horrible not doing so.[/QUOTE] that is pretty messed up. what about bartenders ? and btw, how do you tax tips ?

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47942754]Or even actually a proper minimum wage. From what I know, they get paid way under the minimum wage, relying on tips to make up the difference, so its gone from being a bonus to a job well done to pretty much a necessity.[/QUOTE] Just FYI, ALL employees must earn at least minimum wage in the US, period. If tips do not make up the difference, the employer is required by law to make up for the rest. And then there are states that actually pay servers the minimum wage.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;47942902]that is pretty messed up. what about bartenders ? and btw, how do you tax tips ?[/QUOTE] You tax tips as general income, either as predicted estimates based on area, or as what is written on your tip sheets. If you write down the amount you make in tips for the days you work, tax is based on that, otherwise the estimate is used for your income level.

[QUOTE=.Lain;47942511]where [I]is[/I] this the case.[/QUOTE] America without a second fucking thought

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47942754]Or even actually a proper minimum wage. From what I know, they get paid way under the minimum wage, relying on tips to make up the difference, so its gone from being a bonus to a job well done to pretty much a necessity.[/QUOTE] Servers minimum wage is less than everyone else's minimum wage, and they have to pay taxes on their tips too. That's why it is better to tip them in cash, so their pimp doesn't know about the extra cash that they make.

To be clear for non-Americans: Yes, waiters don't usually get paid minimum wage, but that doesn't' stop waiting from being one of the most sought after no-education starter jobs. At the vast majority of restaurants you will make far more than minimum wage, with quite a lot of waiters working at mid to high end restaurants earning as much, or more, than a first year college grad.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;47942946]America without a second fucking thought[/QUOTE] There is an awful lot of dehumanization with service professions like house keeping, but I've honestly never seen anyone EVER treat a waiter like a slave my entire life. To me this doesn't come down to "americans are shitting on foreign waiters" it's a totally different style of service and payment. American waiters are very kind, and always (or should be) there for the customer because that's what we expect, and they live off of the tip you give them, so they need to provide the best service possible in order to get that tip. American waiting can sometimes require just as much acting as it does serving. In other countries, this simply is not the case, and I've even see people say that American waiters are overbearing and annoying. That's just how they are trained to act, and how they act towards everyone. If France can have the waiter culture of respect and indifference, we can have ours of constant service.

When I went to France most everybody was surprisingly nice, very contrary to the stereotype. Although speaking a bit of French did help smooth things over.

[QUOTE=sgman91;47942974]To be clear for non-Americans: Yes, waiters don't usually get paid minimum wage, but that doesn't' stop waiting from being one of the most sought after no-education starter jobs. At the vast majority of restaurants you will make far more than minimum wage, with quite a lot of waiters working at mid to high end restaurants earning as much, or more, than a first year college grad.[/QUOTE] So that makes it ok to give them less than minimum wage, right? Just because some people make loads of tips at certain places? What about all the people who work at small places where tips are not so good? Or what about when they work at times where there are practically no tips at all?

[QUOTE=GeeOhDee;47943050]So that makes it ok to give them less than minimum wage, right? Just because some people make loads of tips at certain places? What about all the people who work at small places where tips are not so good? Or what about when they work at times where there are practically no tips at all?[/QUOTE] Then they just get paid the federal/state minimum wage. Yeah some places do better than others.

[QUOTE=GeeOhDee;47943050]So that makes it ok to give them less than minimum wage, right? Just because some people make loads of tips at certain places? What about all the people who work at small places where tips are not so good? Or what about when they work at times where there are practically no tips at all?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=waxrock;47942919]Just FYI, ALL employees must earn at least minimum wage in the US, period. If tips do not make up the difference, the employer is required by law to make up for the rest. And then there are states that actually pay servers the minimum wage.[/QUOTE] Also, a small restaurant is not a place where you expect less tips. People tend, in my area atleast, to tip more than at chain restaurants.

Some waiters getting lucky doesn't mean the other ones should be disregarded Besides, even for the ones that do well, inconsistency is still a problem. You can get a table for 7 one week and a bunch of really slow days the next, and it makes planning your spendings much harder

[QUOTE=waxrock;47942919]Just FYI, ALL employees must earn at least minimum wage in the US, period. If tips do not make up the difference, the employer is required by law to make up for the rest. And then there are states that actually pay servers the minimum wage.[/QUOTE] Wrong. Food service and farm work is exempt from minimum wage and has been since the juvenile and agricultural workers act was passed. [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=waxrock;47943098]Then they just get paid the federal/state minimum wage. Yeah some places do better than others.[/QUOTE] Nope.

Hahahah.... I do pizza delivery, 34 hours a week across 4 days, taking on average day as many as 15 Deliveries over 8 Hours and making a total average of about 40$ before gas and 3$ less an hour then minimum wage. on top of that. On top of that dealing with people who order a pizza and short change. Mothers who send their 4-5 Y.O. to the door while she hides in plain sight, thinking I some how can't fucking see her, to make it deal with the pizza guy thinking some how when the kid hands me exact change I won't think less of her for sending her kid to the door who obviously doesn't understand what goes on and slowly melts under stress, when clearly her bitch-ass ain't busy. Or my favorite: Scammers. the people who say they got their pizza upside down. Until I take a picture of the pizza and show it to the boss but even then we never seem to black list these assholes. Shit most of my tips come from lottery deliveries, people who tip 10$+ and then go through the rest of the day with stiffs or 1$ tippers. Shit the Dominoes driver down the street gets tipped more then I do.

[QUOTE=waxrock;47943098]Then they just get paid the federal/state minimum wage. Yeah some places do better than others.[/QUOTE] No they don't. I know plenty of wait staff. They don't get minimum they get at least 2.13 an hour and any tips up to minimum wage. They're supposed to, but they never do. Also minimum wage isn't a livable wage in this country so it's not like it matters anyway. [editline]12th June 2015[/editline] Shit I know a few places where the managers and even the business force the wait staff to give them their tips and after taking a sizable portion for themselves the tips are redistributed between all staff, including cooks, and cooks make an actual wage. Basically the point I'm making is that working service in the US is fucking trash and anyone who thinks it's fine is a fucking shitbag.

[QUOTE=draugur;47943306]No they don't. I know plenty of wait staff. They don't get minimum they get at least 2.13 an hour and any tips up to minimum wage. They're supposed to, but they never do. Also minimum wage isn't a livable wage in this country so it's not like it matters anyway. [editline]12th June 2015[/editline] Shit I know a few places where the managers and even the business force the wait staff to give them their tips and after taking a sizable portion for themselves the tips are redistributed between all staff, including cooks, and cooks make an actual wage. Basically the point I'm making is that working service in the US is fucking trash and anyone who thinks it's fine is a fucking shitbag.[/QUOTE] This is only the case in most of the southern states, where I live they get paid OVER minimum wage starting pay Here's a link to a graph showing the state laws [URL]http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm[/URL] Also, where I used to work at, most of the waiters would split tips with the cooks/bartenders on big tables and busy nights, but it wasn't required. Food service where I live is a great job, so you might want to think twice about the US as a whole having terrible a food service industry

[QUOTE=Rocket;47943216]Might want to actually check the law on that one: [url]http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm[/url][/QUOTE] In your zeal to make a non-existent point you missed the literal crux of the matter: [quote] covered and exempt [/quote] Meanwhile in the real world; the local Pizza Hut has a giant sign out front offering $4.25 an hour, and the local casino starts servers at 3.75 + tips. 3.75 is [b] half [/b] of the state minimum wage.

[QUOTE=waxrock;47943098]Then they just get paid the federal/state minimum wage. Yeah some places do better than others.[/QUOTE] While this being said I live in California where this is the case and it's still really hard to get by, between my girlfriend and I both being waiters/(waitress) we still barely have enough money to pay rent utilities and eat decent food. I can only imagine what it would be like if I didn't get minimum.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47942535]Now that I think of it, the French style sounds pretty similar to what we're used to, over here in BA... unlike the "American style", of waiters hovering over your table constantly, and *demanding* a tip. We tip around here when we consider the service/food/overall experience was worthy of something extra.[/QUOTE] Well, in France a 15% tip is automatically added so no-one has to demand it.

I don't tip in most circumstances. Granted, I don't really ever go out anywhere ever, but when I do go somewhere, I really would like to tip but I can't throw an extra few dollars out my waiter's way because I don't have an extra few dollars.

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;47943026]When I went to France most everybody was surprisingly nice, very contrary to the stereotype. Although speaking a bit of French did help smooth things over.[/QUOTE] It does help. Imagine if someone from France walked into our country without even attempting to speak a word of the local language and loudly complained to their companions (imagine for a moment that the average American can at least understand French) about the lack of bidets and that the country is full of lick-boots. The next group of French to show up without at least attempting to speak English probably wouldn't be in for a very warm welcome. Making an attempt to speak and understand the language of a country demonstrates that you at least give half a shit, and are willing to interact with the local people on an equal basis rather than dismissing them.