After Arab Spring, experts fearful of Christian targeting at Easter celebrations - Polidicks

[QUOTE](CNN)– For Christians in countries thrown into tumult by the Arab Spring revolutions, Easter celebrations may prove dangerous. According to experts and academics in the United States, the changing balances of power in each country, along with a history of anti-Christian sentiment, have made overt celebrations like Easter a cause for concern among Christians. This atmosphere, according to the same scholars, will likely alter the way the religious holiday is celebrated. "In the past, they [Syrian Christians] have had great outpouring of piety in the public squares on Easter," said Nina Shea, director of the Center for Religious Freedom at the Hudson Institute. "This time, I suspect it is going to be vastly different. They are fearful." Though the geopolitical makeup of each Arab Spring country is different, Shea and other religious freedom scholars say that a pious holiday like Easter presents an opportunity for anti-Christian groups to seek out worshipers. In a country like Syria, where the conflict is ongoing between government forces and rebels, Easter celebrations face risks outside of solely religious targeting. In countries like Egypt, Libya and Tunisia, where the height of the conflict has passed, Easter celebrations now deal with the new power shifts in each country. Religious holidays have long been a venue for terrorist attacks against all religious groups in the Middle East and North Africa. These holidays provide not only a meaningful day to make a statement but also see large concentrations of worshipers in one area. According to Shea, who monitors religious media from Syria and Egypt, some Christians in the area are worried about targeted killings. "In Syria, it is a time when Christian are packing their suitcases or thinking about packing their suitcase and definitely are going to be lying low this Easter season," she said. Though Coptic Christian's in Egypt do not celebrate Easter until April 15, they find themselves in a particular state of uncertainty. Coptic Pope Shenouda III, the spiritual leader of Egypt's Coptic Christians for nearly four decades, died last month of renal failure. He was 88. Copts make up 9% of Egypt population, according to the U.S. State Department, but have been the target of a number of attacks in the past few months. In January, at least 21 people died at a church bombing in Alexandria and in October 2011, 25 people died and more than 272 people were injured during protests after a Coptic Church was burned in southern Egypt. According to CNN's Ben Wedeman, since the revolution that removed former President Hosni Mubarak from office, there have been more clashes between Egypt's Coptic Christians and Muslims. "There is this idea that Christians are somehow not real Egyptians. There is this idea that these people are not really good citizens of the country," said Albert W. Hickman, a research associate at the Center for the Study of Global Christianity. "I'd say the mood is watchful. People are looking to see what is going to happen next." Hickman continued to say that it would not surprise him if anti-Christian groups in Egypt planned to target worshipers on Easter. "I would imagine that Christians are not wanting to draw a huge amount of attention to a huge gathering in a park or square," Hickman said. These concerns are highlighted in a yearly report from the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. "Over the past year, the Egyptian transitional government continued to engage in and tolerate systematic, ongoing, and egregious violations of freedom of thought, conscience and religion or belief," reads the report. "Violence targeting Coptic Orthodox Christians increased significantly during the reporting period. The transitional government has failed to protect religious minorities from violent attacks at a time when minority communities have been increasingly vulnerable." According to the report, nearly 100 Coptic Christians were killed in 2011 because of more than 40 sectarian incidents. This number surpassed the death toll of the previous 10 years combined. Voice of the Martyrs, a persecution ministry that operates a popular and powerful Facebook page in which American Christians post prayers for persecuted Christians around the world, has highlighted Easter persecution, as well. "Holy days can be a time when Christians are targeted," reads one post by the organization. "Will you pray God's protection for Christians worshiping in restricted nations this Easter?" In two hours, the comment was shared over 100 times and liked by almost 400 people. [img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/WORLD/meast/03/13/egypt.church/t1larg.coptic.m10.gi.afp.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/after-arab-spring-experts-fearful-of-christian-targeting-at-easter-celebrations/?hpt=hp_t3[/url]

It must suck not being able to celebrate something important to you because some dude might shoot you for it.

[QUOTE=Cone;35477918]It must suck not being able to celebrate something important to you because some dude might shoot you for it.[/QUOTE] Yeah that whole middle east/africa area is fucked.

I don't understand why can't everyone just get along.

[QUOTE=BCell;35479272]I don't understand why can't everyone just get along.[/QUOTE] Religion

[QUOTE=BCell;35479272]I don't understand why can't everyone just get along.[/QUOTE] move along people

[QUOTE=znk666;35479355]Religion[/QUOTE] In this case.

[QUOTE=Cone;35477918]It must suck not being able to celebrate something important to you because some dude might shoot you for it.[/QUOTE] I'm an Atheist, but my family's Jewish, so I celebrate Hannukah. But I can't do it publicly or tell anyone or wear a star of David because chances are I'll get beaten up, threatened and spit on, the downside of living in a country with a large Muslim population.

[QUOTE=mac338;35479770]I'm an Atheist, but my family's Jewish, so I celebrate Hannukah. But I can't do it publicly or tell anyone or wear a star of David because chances are I'll get beaten up, threatened and spit on, the downside of living in a country with a large Muslim population.[/QUOTE] Norway is a country with large Muslim population? hahaha [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29483720/muslimsaretakingovereurope%21.png[/img] [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] 97.61% of the population is non-Muslim.

I live in an area with 15% Drammen, with 21,5 % immigrants, is second after Oslo. Ca. 15% are from the Middle Eastern region. [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] Oslo too'd be dangerous. [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] But I don't mind, I'm completely safe as long as people don't know I'm Jewish.

[QUOTE=mac338;35479770]I'm an Atheist, but my family's Jewish, so I celebrate Hannukah. But I can't do it publicly or tell anyone or wear a star of David because chances are I'll get beaten up, threatened and spit on, the downside of living in a country with a large Muslim population.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously saying that, in Norway, you'll get beat up by Muslims if they know you're Jewish or Jewish-related? Even if your particular town is 15% Muslim, that's still laughably low to constitute an omnipresent threat. Unless you're trying to suggest that the entire 15% would want to beat you up (you know, including children, young adults, the elderly), I cannot see how that's possible.

[QUOTE=Megafan;35479880]Are you seriously saying that, in Norway, you'll get beat up by Muslims if they know you're Jewish or Jewish-related? Even if your particular town is 15% Muslim, that's still laughably low to constitute an omnipresent threat. Unless you're trying to suggest that the entire 15% would want to beat you up (you know, including children, young adults, the elderly), I cannot see how that's possible.[/QUOTE] Well, it's happened to me before. I told a friend I was Jewish, and unknowing of what he'd set in motion told someone else, etcetera. It eventually ended in me getting beat up and harassed quite a bit. And judging from a recent article [URL="http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/Det-muslimske-jodehatet-6796018.html"]I'm not alone in that. [/URL] There are two synagogues in the country, and both have bulletproof windows and massive security, because they keep getting shot at. And 11 reported threats or vandalism towards Semites out of a group of 819 in the entire country this last [I]month[/I] doesn't really bode too well for me. Now I genuinely am not trying to push an agenda here, I like Muslims. I like everyone in fact, it's just that it so happens that a lot of people are angry about Palestine and take it out on Jews because of some backwards logic. Hell, I'm not even an Israel supporter. I think this issue is commonly swept under the rug for two reasons - the fact that we're such a small minority anyway and the fact that anyone who accuses anyone of antisemitism gets told "you Jews blame antisemitism on everything" - and it really is an overused rhetoric by Israel, but when it's supposed to be used it really can't because of that.

[QUOTE=mac338;35479770]I'm an Atheist, but my family's Jewish, so I celebrate Hannukah. But I can't do it publicly or tell anyone or wear a star of David because chances are I'll get beaten up, threatened and spit on, the downside of living in a country with a large Muslim population.[/QUOTE] i know how you feel, people used to beat me up in Britain for being jewish. fucking bastards

[QUOTE=thisispain;35479970]i know how you feel, people used to beat me up in Britain for being jewish. fucking bastards[/QUOTE] It's super ironic, but really one of the safest places in Europe if you're Jewish is Germany. :v:

It's not only muslims that hates jews here in Norway. There are many norwegians who think Jewish = Israel, so they get very hostile towards them.

[QUOTE=mac338;35479992]It's super ironic, but really one of the safest places in Europe if you're Jewish is Germany. :v:[/QUOTE] Well yeah man, them Germans still have a lot of making up to do v:v:v Most apologetic nation in the world? Yes. [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Thaard;35480005]It's not only muslims that hates jews here in Norway. There are many norwegians who think Jewish = Israel, so they get very hostile towards them.[/QUOTE] Wait why the hell would [b]Norway[/b] out of any country have a bone to pick with Israel?

[QUOTE=Thaard;35480005]It's not only muslims that hates jews here in Norway. There are many norwegians who think Jewish = Israel, so they get very hostile towards them.[/QUOTE] Mostly the SV-guys, they can be [I]really[/I] annoying, but they've never been violent towards me in any way.

[QUOTE=mac338;35479903]Well, it's happened to me before. I told a friend I was Jewish, and unknowing of what he'd set in motion told someone else, etcetera. It eventually ended in me getting beat up and harassed quite a bit. And judging from a recent article [URL="http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/Det-muslimske-jodehatet-6796018.html"]I'm not alone in that. [/URL] There are two synagogues in the country, and both have bulletproof windows and massive security, because they keep getting shot at. And 11 reported threats or vandalism towards Semites out of a group of 819 in the entire country this last [I]month[/I] doesn't really bode too well for me. Now I genuinely am not trying to push an agenda here, I like Muslims. I like everyone in fact, it's just that it so happens that a lot of people are angry about Palestine and take it out on Jews because of some backwards logic. Hell, I'm not even an Israel supporter. I think this issue is commonly swept under the rug for two reasons - the fact that we're such a small minority anyway and the fact that anyone who accuses anyone of antisemitism gets told "you Jews blame antisemitism on everything" - and it really is an overused rhetoric by Israel, but when it's supposed to be used it really can't because of that.[/QUOTE] Ah, well that is quite a sad story and more understandable, but I suppose it was the 'that's the downside of living in a country with a large muslim population' part that got me. While it's true that the Jewish in Norway are less in number than the Muslims, both of the groups are minorities by far and blaming it on 'the muslim population' rather than 'some bad muslim blokes that beat me up' seems a bit wrong to me. Not to offend you, I'm sure you're probably not prejudiced like that, I'm just saying how it sounds.

[QUOTE=Megafan;35480042]Ah, well that is quite a sad story and more understandable, but I suppose it was the 'that's the downside of living in a country with a large muslim population' part that got me. While it's true that the Jewish in Norway are less in number than the Muslims, both of the groups are minorities by far and blaming it on 'the muslim population' rather than 'some bad muslim blokes that beat me up' seems a bit wrong to me. Not to offend you, I'm sure you're probably not prejudiced like that, I'm just saying how it sounds.[/QUOTE] I can definitively see why you'd think that. It's the problem that a few fundamentalists typically slither in with the crowd, but you never know thus you have to be quite careful.

[QUOTE=mac338;35479770]I'm an Atheist, but my family's Jewish, so I celebrate Hannukah. But I can't do it publicly or tell anyone or wear a star of David because chances are I'll get beaten up, threatened and spit on, the downside of living in a country with a large Muslim population.[/QUOTE] Does anything happen to the people that beat you up for being Jewish? If not, why the fuck does nothing happen to them?

[QUOTE=Crash15;35480149]Does anything happen to the people that beat you up for being Jewish? If not, why the fuck does nothing happen to them?[/QUOTE] I didn't report it because I thought it embarrassing at the time, bit of a confidence breaker to my masculinity.

mac338 If you are hanging out with Muslims, say that you are Muslim. If with Christians, Say that you are Christian. OR Go to gym, eat well, and etc. etc. Act Cool like, you can beat everybody, but you just dont want to do it. And everything will be fine. No more beat ups.

[QUOTE=Kastro;35480210] Go to gym, eat well, and etc. etc. Act Cool like, you can beat everybody, but you just dont want to do it. And everything will be fine. No more beat ups.[/QUOTE] That's not that as easy as you make it seem for some people.

I'm decently fit either way, but things get a bit iffy when confronted with a small group of people. But, back on-topic, shall we?

[QUOTE=mac338;35479842]I live in an area with 15% Drammen, with 21,5 % immigrants, is second after Oslo. Ca. 15% are from the Middle Eastern region. [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] Oslo too'd be dangerous. [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] But I don't mind, I'm completely safe as long as people don't know I'm Jewish.[/QUOTE] I gotta ask though: what the hell are the fundamentalists (and generally intolerant) religious people doing in the least religious part of the world, picking on other people? Report them. Religious/prejudiced [B]nonsense[/B] is not acceptable in Nordic nations. They have no place in [I]developed[/I] society if they can't keep their intolerance to themselves. You shouldn't be afraid of publicly admitting your religion, but neither is it anyone's business unless they directly ask, so keep it to yourself.

[QUOTE=znk666;35479355]Religion[/QUOTE] No. The problem goes way beyond religion. This kind of behavior is genetically ingrained in humanity for evolutionary reasons. Violence and xenophobia is sometimes necessary for survival. Of course, we live in a civilization where we try to diminish these traits but deep down they're still there, and in some societies they're actively advocated.

[QUOTE=Chrille;35481020]No. The problem goes way beyond religion. This kind of behavior is genetically ingrained in humanity for evolutionary reasons. Violence and xenophobia is sometimes necessary for survival. Of course, we live in a civilization where we try to diminish these traits but deep down they're still there, and in some societies they're actively advocated.[/QUOTE] Don't bring biotruths into this

[QUOTE=Chrille;35481020]No. The problem goes way beyond religion. This kind of behavior is genetically ingrained in humanity for evolutionary reasons. Violence and xenophobia is sometimes necessary for survival. Of course, we live in a civilization where we try to diminish these traits but deep down they're still there, and in some societies they're actively advocated.[/QUOTE] Of course, those people still use religion as an excuse for their actions. If religion were to be non-existent, the same things would still happen.

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;35481073]Don't bring biotruths into this[/QUOTE] Oh, right, because as soon as something uses evolutionary psychology it's wrong and you're justified in using a retarded expression. I hate that it's Carl Sagan who said this, because it appears like I'm quoting this for the sole reason of it being Sagan who said this, but it's still true: "In our tenure on this planet we've accumulated dangerous evolutionary baggage — propensities for aggression and ritual, submission to leaders, hostility to outsiders — all of which puts our survival in some doubt." [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DireAvenger;35481160]Of course, those people still use religion as an excuse for their actions. If religion were to be non-existent, the same things would still happen.[/QUOTE] Pretty much.

[QUOTE=Chrille;35481162]Oh, right, because as soon as something uses evolutionary psychology it's wrong and you're justified in using a retarded expression. I hate that it's Carl Sagan who said this, because it appears like I'm quoting this for the sole reason of it being Sagan who said this, but it's still true: "In our tenure on this planet we've accumulated dangerous evolutionary baggage — propensities for aggression and ritual, submission to leaders, hostility to outsiders — all of which puts our survival in some doubt."[/QUOTE] Go ahead and use evolutionary psychology but you are walking into a minefield of unsubstantiated quasi-intellectual justifications for terrible ideology or ideas, in this case you wouldn't technically be wrong but it is akin to blaming the Romans for the Spanish Inquisition. The issue is religion, the vehicle is violence.