The Zodiac Killer - General

So, I believe Arthur Leigh Allen was the Zodiac Killer, but, I know some other people think that isn't the best explanation, so tell me, what's your opinion? Here's my evidence! [B]Sources: [url]http://www.quotefully.com/movie/Zodiac+(2007+Movie)/Arthur+Leigh+Allen[/url] [url]http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/GWP.htm[/url] [url]http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/zodiac.php[/url] "Zodiac" the movie, available on Netflix, or the internet ( :quagmire: )[/B] [B][U]Straight from an interview with Robert Graysmith: [/U][/B] [U][B]What circumstantial evidence did Graysmith have against Arthur Leigh Allen? [/B][/U]In an MSNBC interview for the movie, Robert Graysmith responded to criticism that he focused too much on Allen and not enough on the evidence by saying, "Well, if [the killer] leaves a footprint and it's a Wing walker shoe that they only made 169,000 pairs and they are sold only on naval stations and his father is a naval commander. It's a size 10½ shoe, you can only get it if you are a dependent or an enlisted person, if he works across the street from the first victim, if he says two days before the first murder, 'I am going to hunt people, I am going to put a light on the end of my gun, I'm going to taunt the press, I'm going to taunt the police and I'm going to call myself 'Zodiac',' who two days before receives a Zodiac watch, I think at some point when you have a guy who has to be a chemist, who can build electronic bombs, who knows cipher—I don't know if you want to call any of that evidence, but I think if you wear the same-sized gloves and the same-sized shoe and you have a catalog in your basement that advertises a bomb-disposal outfit that has a square hood, then at some point you have to say, 'It is probably this guy.' I am not one of those people. If they catch someone else, that's not going to bother me, but I'm satisfied it's him." [B]Some things not on the website which happened in the movie "Zodiac" which is all based on the TRUE story, is that, when Arthur Leigh Allen went to jail, letters which were sent to Robert Graysmith stopped, then when he was out, he got more letters, once Arthur Leigh Allen died, no more letters came. Allen's death wasn't announced, he barely had any friends, and all suspects weren't his friends, so he couldn't of been framed, that's of course unless maybe the other suspect Rick Marshall wasn't studying Arthur Leigh Allen.[/B] [U]Some things which lead suspicion towards Arthur Leigh Allen[/U] [B][U]Did suspect Arthur Leigh Allen really wear a watch with the Zodiac's symbol on it?[/U][/B] Yes. The movie shows Zodiac suspect Arthur Leigh Allen (John Carroll Lynch) wearing a watch that bares the killer's symbol and the brand name Zodiac. The real Arthur Leigh Allen wore an identical watch, the Zodiac Sea Wolf watch. Robert Graysmith commented on this in an interview, "To use the symbol ... to wear that watch, and to be at the crime scenes and to know the victims ... he would have to be the Zodiac." [B][U]Interview between Arthur Leigh Allen and detectives[/U][/B] Note that this is a code-cracked cipher from the Zodiac... I LIKE KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS SO MUCH FUN IT IS MORE FUN THAN KILLING WILD GAME IN THE FORREST BECAUSE MAN IS THE MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL OF ALL TO KILL SOMETHING GIVES ME THE MOST THRILLING EXPERENCE IT IS EVEN BETTER THAN GETTING YOUR ROCKS OFF WITH A GIRL THE BEST PART OF IT IS THAT WHEN I DIE I WILL BE REBORN IN PARADICE AND ALL THE I HAVE KILLED WILL BECOME MY SLAVES I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY NAME BECAUSE YOU WILL TRY TO SLOW DOWN OR STOP MY COLLECTING OF SLAVES FOR MY AFTERLIFE EBEORIETEMETHHPITI Now, the most dangerous animal is man he says, which is what the book "The Most Dangerous Game" is about. ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN I am not the Zodiac. And if I were, I certainly wouldn't tell you. ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN Oh. "The Most Dangerous Game." INSPECTOR WILLIAM ARMSTRONG What? ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN "The Most Dangerous Game." That's why you're here isn't it? It was my favorite book in high school. It's about this man who waits for these people to get shipwrecked on this island. Because he was tired of hunting animals, he hunted the people for the challenge. DAVE TOSCHI And man is the most dangerous animal of all? ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN That's the whole point of the story.

IT was ME

This isn't how you structure a debate, give some evidence to back up your argument.

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;43953848]This isn't how you structure a debate, give some evidence to back up your argument.[/QUOTE] Will do.

[QUOTE=luck_or_loss;43953825]IT was ME[/QUOTE] No, IT WAS ME /debate

[QUOTE=raineko;43953899]No, IT WAS ME /debate[/QUOTE] No fair, I did it I have proof, I got a knife in my kitchen.

well he's dead now, its been over 60 years since the killings and he was described as being in his mid 30s at the time of the attacks

[QUOTE=Sableye;43954051]well he's dead now, its been over 60 years since the killings and he was described as being in his mid 30s at the time of the attacks[/QUOTE] The case also remains open in the city of Vallejo, as well as in Napa County and Solano County. The California Department of Justice has maintained an open case file on the Zodiac murders since 1969. Who do you think did it? I mean, it's still un-solved, and he killed, many people.

the only reason the zodiac never was caught was because of botched investigations and poor cross-jurisdiction coordination. also his time was just the perfect storm of opportunity, plenty of people, plenty of secrecy, a big mistrust of the goverment both local and federal, and little in the way of surveillance. if he had committed these crimes today he would have been found, there are just too many eyes out there and the goverment since 9-11 has been beefed up into an amazing investigative machine, capable of taking the smallest amount of information and gleaming from it what is needed as well as a massive net of cross jurisdiction counter terrorist units and contingency plans and a very well established chain of command. the zodiac was also lucky to have lived before the advent of modern crime scene investigation, and it can be said that his crime going unsolved was a driving force behind forensic science

[QUOTE=Sableye;43954869]the only reason the zodiac never was caught was because of botched investigations and poor cross-jurisdiction coordination.[/QUOTE] Kind of like Jack the Ripper.

Graysmith is a hack. Pinning Allen as a potential Zodiac suspect was his only claim to fame, so it isn't surprising that he comes up with new theories to help prove his already shitty points, evidence, ideas, etc. Allen was definitely an odd guy, and the amount of circumstantial evidence that was found in his trailer was compelling, but DNA/fingerprint evidence that was found on the envelopes and letters the actual zodiac sent to the SF papers and police departments didn't match his. As a result he was obviously eliminated as a suspect. Other than that one solved by the school teacher and his wife, none of the ciphers have ever been decoded. Anyone claiming they have it more than likely full of shit. I personally believe the ciphers don't mean anything and we just sent to the papers in an effort to throw the investigation off. Either that, or there is an intended message behind them but the key to solving it hasn't been found or the person that wrote it messed up and made a mistake that made it unsolvable.

[QUOTE=ccg;43955115]Graysmith is a hack. Pinning Allen as a potential Zodiac suspect was his only claim to fame, so it isn't surprising that he comes up with new theories to help prove his already shitty points, evidence, ideas, etc. Allen was definitely an odd guy, and the amount of circumstantial evidence that was found in his trailer was compelling, but DNA/fingerprint evidence that was found on the envelopes and letters the actual zodiac sent to the SF papers and police departments didn't match his. As a result he was obviously eliminated as a suspect. Other than that one solved by the school teacher and his wife, none of the ciphers have ever been decoded. Anyone claiming they have it more than likely full of shit. I personally believe the ciphers don't mean anything and we just sent to the papers in an effort to throw the investigation off. Either that, or there is an intended message behind them but the key to solving it hasn't been found or the person that wrote it messed up and made a mistake that made it unsolvable.[/QUOTE] If there is a mistake, it would have entirely been a mistake, because if there were just one, they would've solved part of it, revealing at least something. I don't believe it was a key to fame also, he was just a cartoonist who wanted to find out what went on, it was an obsession. [QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;43954911]Kind of like Jack the Ripper.[/QUOTE] Jack The Ripper... The case was solved.