Boy ‘living life entirely as a girl’ removed from mother's care by UK judge - Polidicks

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/21/boy-living-life-as-girl-removed-from-mothers-care-high-court-judge[/url] [QUOTE]A seven-year-old boy who was “living life entirely as a girl” has been removed from his mother’s care after a ruling by a high court judge. Mr Justice Hayden said the woman had caused her son “significant emotional harm”, and he criticised local authority social services staff responsible for the youngster’s welfare. The judge said the woman had been “absolutely convinced” the youngster “perceived himself as a girl” and was determined that he should be a girl. He said the boy was now living with his father, who is separated from the woman. The youngster still saw his mother.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Family court litigation had started about three years ago after the father raised concerns about not having contact with his son. A lower-ranking judge had authorised a “wide-ranging” inquiry and local authority social services staff had begun investigations. The boy’s mother “told me that [he] was ‘living in stealth’ by which was meant, she explained, that he was living life entirely as a girl”, said Hayden. “He dressed, at all times, like a girl and, it transpired, had been registered at a new general practitioner’s as a girl.” The judge added: “I was also left in no doubt that [the mother] was absolutely convinced that [the boy] perceived himself as a girl.” Hayden said his “overwhelming impression” was that the woman “believes herself to be to fighting for [her son’s] right to express himself as a girl”. He said the woman had told him that the boy “expressed disdain for his penis”. He added: “I consider that [the mother] has caused significant emotional harm to [her son] in her active determination that he should be a girl.” Hayden said the boy had settled well in the care of his father and his father’s partner. “I have been told that [the father] and his partner were shocked when they first saw [the boy] by the extent to which he appeared to be a girl, both in appearance and in mannerism,” said the judge. “However, what is striking is how well [the boy] has settled down.” The judge added: “I have noted from reports that the boy] has become interested in Power Rangers, SpongeBob, superheroes and is constantly finding new interests … It is striking that most of [the boy’s] interests are male-oriented. “I am entirely satisfied, both on the basis of the reports and [the father’s] evidence at this hearing, that he has brought no pressure on (the boy) to pursue masculine interests. [The boy’s] interests and energy are entirely self-motivated.”[/QUOTE] Full judgement: [url]http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html[/url]

two fucked up stories in one day, i think im done on SH now

Terrible mother for forcing her son to live as something he isn't.

[quote]“He dressed, at all times, like a girl and, it transpired, had been registered at a new general practitioner’s as a girl.”[/quote] All politics aside, this is [I]bad[/I]. You [I]do not[/I] lie on medical forms. Many cancers and disease effects men and women differently, and it does not care about your gender identity. Doctors need to know which one you are to diagnose and treat effectively.

[QUOTE=RG4ORDR;51245050]Terrible mother for forcing her son to live as something he isn't.[/QUOTE] Did she? I can't really find that in the article. Maybe it's in the full judgement. But the mentioning of "disdain for his penis" makes me think there is actual dysphoria here. If the kid's sincere about it then the mother did nothing wrong except lying to a doctor.

[QUOTE=Butthurter;51245068]how detached do you have to be to think this[/QUOTE] The idea of 'masculine' and 'feminine' interests is one integral to views on transgender people today, the judge is actually using their own ideas to examine the situation.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51245071] But the mentioning of "disdain for his penis" makes me think there is actual dysphoria here. .[/QUOTE] Or it's a seven year old saying stupid seven year old shit. If the kid were older, then go for it, but enabling such an intense change at such a young age is nothing short of absurd. Though unless the mother pushed for it for some reason, I doubt this'll cause "significant emotional harm", if any at all.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51245081]The idea of 'masculine' and 'feminine' interests is one integral to views on transgender people today, the judge is actually using their own ideas to examine the situation.[/QUOTE] Girls can't like superheroes and action figures? You're acting like that has any relation to genetics at all, which it doesn't.

fucking batty woman, throw her cunty ass in prison for a good few years

Perhaps I'm not picking it up clearly here but if it was being forced onto the kid then yeah that's weird. I [I]really[/I] want to assume that's why the judge ruled the kid be removed from her care.

[QUOTE=Dissolution;51245092]Or it's a seven year old saying stupid seven year old shit. If the kid were older, then go for it, but enabling such an intense change at such a young age is nothing short of absurd. Though unless the mother pushed for it for some reason, I doubt this'll cause "significant emotional harm", if any at all.[/QUOTE] Again, assuming it's the kids thoughts, it's just letting the kid act and dress like they want. It's not like HRT is happening or anything. What would cause significant emotional harm? Forcing someone who feels like a girl to grow up as a boy

[QUOTE=bitches;51245098]Girls can't like superheroes and action figures? You're acting like that has any relation to genetics at all, which it doesn't.[/QUOTE] Well, why don't you tell that to mainstream transgender advocates? I agree it doesn't have an association, you don't need to convince me.

[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;51245102]fucking batty woman, throw her cunty ass in prison for a good few years[/QUOTE] Why so vicious? None of us here know the full details of this. Maybe if you believe there's no such thing as transgender people or that transgenderism is just a delusion you'd have a good reason to say this, but even then you'd just be arguing against scientific reality. Note that I am not saying that I know what happened here either. I don't doubt that some parents are actually psycho and would force this on their kid, but it's only fair to also consider the possibility that the child actually wanted this. What if he or she is actually diagnosed with serious gender dysphoria later on, and due to the court's actions can't receive any treatment before puberty? (Or worse, until after moving away and becoming financially independent, when any treatment at all is ineffective beyond massive unaffordable surgery.) Many people have killed themselves over gender dysphoria. It goes both ways; it has happened to kids forced by bad parents to live as the opposite sex (who were not transgender), and also to kids whose transgender needs for medical and social attention were completely ignored. I'm just saying that such a serious topic should be approached with open eyes to consider the possibilities, instead of jumping to conclusions about how a "fucking batty cunty ass" should be in prison.

there are lots of worrying but also conflicting details in the full judgement, as well as erroneous value judgements (liking power rangers really doesn't mean anything other than you like power rangers.) it's also going to be impossible now to get a straight answer to the question "do you feel like a girl or a boy" since the child's gonna be trying to figure out what the therapist/mum/dad wanted them to answer. I suspect the kid could actually be trans, but the mother has handled it terribly. she alleged that tavistock + portman had "diagnosed their kid as transgender" when they hadn't. can't imagine what the kid is going through now, ugh.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51245125]Well, why don't you tell that to mainstream transgender advocates? I agree it doesn't have an association, you don't need to convince me.[/QUOTE] Most "mainstream transgender advocates" don't really argue that there are or should be gender norms.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51245115]Again, assuming it's the kids thoughts, it's just letting the kid act and dress like they want. It's not like HRT is happening or anything.[/QUOTE] It's not like it's impossible to see the other side of the argument. Children are impressionable, and enabling every little thing they do (especially with something this impactful) can lead to false impressions of themselves and the world. That's sort of how all personalities and tastes are formed. This kind of gender theory is relatively recent, so at this time it's not exactly exempt from the same logic. [QUOTE=thelurker1234;51245115]What would cause significant emotional harm? Forcing someone who feels like a girl to grow up as a boy[/QUOTE] Except this is completely and utterly indistinguishable from regular child behavior so let's not pretend either side has any right to throw that shade.

Forced into becoming transgender was a thing I was entirely unaware of ever happening until now, and the implications of that are pretty unnerving to say the least. There's still something definite about this case: its a complete clusterfuck of he-said, she-said, and motivations are all really vague regardless of who's telling the truth or not. [editline]October 22nd, 2016[/editline] Oh, and the mother essentially lying about her son's actual gender; as previously mentioned, that's an extremely important factor for diagnosis.

Going on what little we have to go on, it honestly just sounds like the mother was over-enthusiastic about what she perceived and the child was given too little autonomy. The disdain they held for their genitals is a chicken-or-egg problem at this point; did they have these feelings consistently from the beginning or did the mother's insistence that the child was female and that their male organ should be hidden influence the child into shame? What tells me that the judge probably made a decent call here is that the child seems well-adjusted in their father's home. I'd say revisit the issue in a few years when they're a little older and more confident in the type of person they want to be.

I don't understand why she wouldn't just take her kid to a specialist in this sort of stuff

The child should be fully examined. Disdain for one's gender does not mean GD is there, the child could have been taught to hate himself which is frankly a more terrifying thought than just a mishandled transition.

If the kid is actually transgender, then it's immoral to make them behave like a cisgender person, but if they're not transgender and their parents are basically crazy SJW idiots, then you can't just let the child suffer from their bullshit. And there's no actual way to tell with kids if they haven't even hit puberty or reached the age of consent yet. That's really fucked up, feels like someone's life is going to get ruined either way

There was a reddit post about something identical to this happening to someone. Essentially the guy got taken away from his mother at 11 when it was discovered and he tried to kill himself. [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/t0ynr/throwaway_time_whats_your_secret_that_could/[/url] One of the top comments This is a good primary source for this kind of thing.

Minors need more legal rights. Kids keep getting screwed by fucked up parents and they can't do anything about it on their own.

[QUOTE=bitches;51245098]Girls can't like superheroes and action figures? You're acting like that has any relation to genetics at all, which it doesn't.[/QUOTE] Sorry to piss on your parade, but there's no proof that there is or isn't a direct or indirect relation to genetics, iirc. We don't really know if things can be gender oriented, or if it's just a social construct.

[QUOTE=Paramud;51245169]Most "mainstream transgender advocates" don't really argue that there are or should be gender norms.[/QUOTE] They may use coded language to do so, but when you assert that you can determine the gender of someone (and whether or not they have gender dysphoria) through examining if they have stereotypically 'masculine' or 'feminine' interests or disposition, you are de facto (and accidentally, and also bizarrely at odds with the rest of the feminist worldview) arguing that there should be gender norms.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51245496]They may use coded language to do so, but when you assert that you can determine the gender of someone (and whether or not they have gender dysphoria) through examining if they have stereotypically 'masculine' or 'feminine' interests or disposition, you are de facto (and accidentally, and also bizarrely at odds with the rest of the feminist worldview) arguing that there should be gender norms.[/QUOTE] You have a serious misunderstanding about what gender identity is about. No one argues that they're transgender if they're biologically male with feminine interests or vice versa. The only people who say anything remotely like that are people like yourself who have no idea what they're talking about.

[QUOTE=SirJon;51245454]Sorry to piss on your parade, but there's no proof that there is or isn't a direct or indirect relation to genetics, iirc. We don't really know if things can be gender oriented, or if it's just a social construct.[/QUOTE] I'm quite willing to take the more reasonable assumption that modern ideas like superhero cartoons and figures, enjoyed by tons of adult men and women alike, are not associated with our evolution. You're arguing in favor of the absurd just because it can't be conclusively disproven.

Everything mentioned in OP's post really doesn't give a clear understanding of what the kid actually likes. Hell, I'm tranny as fuck and I love learning about automobiles, building models and playing videogames, things that would be considered "masculine" Like it should be said that as kids gender seems to be a flexable thing, like kids might seem to experience gender dysphoria but as teens be completely fine. The main point here is that the kid should be given freedom to wear and play with whatever they want and be allowed to firmly decide on what they desire to be as teenagers. statistically most boys will be boys and girls the same, but for that odd percentage it can be a life saver from a childhood of depression and such. Also being registered at the doctor's as a girl isn't too bad as long as thier GP actually knows the situation. In short I can't give a honest opinion on this subject, besides let the kid do what they want and don't let their interests in TV or whatever dictate if they're a boy or a girl.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51245196]Forced into becoming transgender was a thing I was entirely unaware of ever happening until now, and the implications of that are pretty unnerving to say the least. There's still something definite about this case: its a complete clusterfuck of he-said, she-said, and motivations are all really vague regardless of who's telling the truth or not. [editline]October 22nd, 2016[/editline] Oh, and the mother essentially lying about her son's actual gender; as previously mentioned, that's an extremely important factor for diagnosis.[/QUOTE] A relative of mine had a child in his teens, and is separate from the mother now, who after their relationship became a lesbian, and I get the impression through the grape vine that they've occasionally attempted (unsuccessfully) to convince the child that he's gay. He spends time with us occasionally and he's a great kid, I feel petty bad about his living situation and getting that kind of pressure from his mom to mimic her lifestyle I'm sure only makes it worse. Luckily he usually lives with one of his grandparents which provides him some stability in his living situation at least.

[QUOTE=bitches;51245145]Why so vicious? None of us here know the full details of this. Maybe if you believe there's no such thing as transgender people or that transgenderism is just a delusion you'd have a good reason to say this, but even then you'd just be arguing against scientific reality. Note that I am not saying that I know what happened here either. I don't doubt that some parents are actually psycho and would force this on their kid, but it's only fair to also consider the possibility that the child actually wanted this. What if he or she is actually diagnosed with serious gender dysphoria later on, and due to the court's actions can't receive any treatment before puberty? (Or worse, until after moving away and becoming financially independent, when any treatment at all is ineffective beyond massive unaffordable surgery.) Many people have killed themselves over gender dysphoria. It goes both ways; it has happened to kids forced by bad parents to live as the opposite sex (who were not transgender), and also to kids whose transgender needs for medical and social attention were completely ignored. I'm just saying that such a serious topic should be approached with open eyes to consider the possibilities, instead of jumping to conclusions about how a "fucking batty cunty ass" should be in prison.[/QUOTE] Way to jump to conclusions, on me believing the existance of transgenders I was talking about how overall this is most def. the mother forcing this shit on her son, and has probably fucked him up good