• Jordan Peterson - goodbye to good men
    40 replies, posted
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeL-Fn0V8iU[/media] lol
The fedora kills me. He's trying to be so dramatic but he looks like a goob.
Lmao the fucking comments on the video tho
[QUOTE=Dr. Fishtastic;52857417]Lmao the fucking comments on the video tho[/QUOTE] jfc Is the fucking Incel/Neckbeard doctrine now hitting the mainstream? Seriously?
god i wish that were me
uhh what the fuck did I just watch :v:
God I wish this were satire Edit: Literally watched the H3H3 podcast yesterday and he seemed like a pretty sensible, smart guy. I suppose he still is, even if I disagree here, but this incel-type bullshit is gonna be all I can think about when seeing him now
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52857429]jfc Is the fucking Incel/Neckbeard doctrine now hitting the mainstream? Seriously?[/QUOTE] there's a lot of people like these nowadays Things like these justify them and make their flaws into positive qualities that [B]tha femoids[/B] do not want, relieving them of any responsibility for their shitty behaviour and personality. and as a counterpoint I'm thinking part of the modern extremist feminist movement appeals to the woman equivalent of these dudes by telling them that all guys ever are inherently evil and predatory
[QUOTE=TFA;52857473]God I wish this were satire Edit: Literally watched the H3H3 podcast yesterday and he seemed like a pretty sensible, smart guy. I suppose he still is, even if I disagree here, but this incel-type bullshit is gonna be all I can think about when seeing him now[/QUOTE] Much crazier people than him have been good at appearing smart and sensible. Just goes to show you a mask of civility doesn't really amount to much.
[QUOTE=TFA;52857473]God I wish this were satire Edit: Literally watched the H3H3 podcast yesterday and he seemed like a pretty sensible, smart guy. I suppose he still is, even if I disagree here, but this incel-type bullshit is gonna be all I can think about when seeing him now[/QUOTE] There are lots of reasons to dislike Peterson but this is a six year old video and a lot can change about a person in six years. This isn't the sort of rhetoric he's known for recently so it's harder to criticize him for it. If you're interested in ruining your opinion of him forever just look into his thoughts on 'neo-marxism'.
[QUOTE=Spacewizard;52857533]If you're interested in ruining your opinion of him forever just look into his thoughts on 'neo-marxism'.[/QUOTE] What's the objection? I've been reading Foucault and other people like bell hooks and everything he's said is on the money. And nor have i seen anyone make a compelling argument otherwise
[QUOTE=Spacewizard;52857533]There are lots of reasons to dislike Peterson but this is a six year old video and a lot can change about a person in six years. This isn't the sort of rhetoric he's known for recently so it's harder to criticize him for it. If you're interested in ruining your opinion of him forever just look into his thoughts on 'neo-marxism'.[/QUOTE] I'm not too well-informed on neo-marxism but what did he say that's wrong according to you?
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52857542]What's the objection? I've been reading Foucault and other people like bell hooks and everything he's said is on the money. And nor have i seen anyone make a compelling argument otherwise[/QUOTE] I object to his belief that Marxism is slowly eroding western culture. Communism has proven time and time again to be horrible but he has an irrational fear of it that clouds his judgment. He also seems to hold the belief that Communists are infiltrating and taking over American campuses but it's much harder to hold him to that because you can never be quite sure what he's talking about when he uses the phrase 'Neo-Marxist'. It's just a convenient buzzword he can use to refer to people he disagrees with. The other word he likes to use is 'Postmodern' but neither of these mean anything in the context of Jordan Peterson. SJWs, Socialists, Progressives, and in general people all the Left all seem to fall under the umbrella of Postmodern Neo-Marxism which now that I think about it I don't think I've ever seen him define.
did he just do the youtube video equivalent of the nonsequitor "bringing a snowball into a senate hearing" argument?
Damn, I knew he preached about the evils of "cultural Marxism" and invalidated transgender people through a myopic lens, but now he's turning incel/MGTOW. I really don't know how people can look up to this guy as a philosophical role model; he's too jaded for his own good.
He raises a few valid points about the direction of western society, doesn't mean they are a negative though. He obviously raised a few completely retarded points too. He really should be speaking about the upcoming sandwich shortage that all males will face in the upcoming years, the true casualty of this story.
[QUOTE=Spacewizard;52857533]There are lots of reasons to dislike Peterson but [B]this is a six year old video[/B] and a lot can change about a person in six years. [...][/QUOTE] At least someone here checked the date. nice.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;52857590]Damn, I knew he preached about the evils of "cultural Marxism" and invalidated transgender people through a myopic lens, but now he's turning incel/MGTOW. [/QUOTE] [media]https://youtu.be/5uTMPwFlf9I[/media] [editline]5th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TFA;52857473]God I wish this were satire Edit: Literally watched the H3H3 podcast yesterday and he seemed like a pretty sensible, smart guy. I suppose he still is, even if I disagree here, but this incel-type bullshit is gonna be all I can think about when seeing him now[/QUOTE] I really don't see what is so horrible about this video; besides a goofy attire that seems slightly intentional going off the first sentence. But either way Jordan Peterson has always criticized the incel community, rightfully so, and just pointed out that boys and men are having to grow up in a era where masculinity is considered a negative trait through school and other environments. [media]https://youtu.be/wyloFO1jNEM[/media]
this guy's a confusing rollercoaster of rational observation and just being a cunt
[QUOTE=cowsaysoink;52857797]this guy's a confusing rollercoaster of rational observation and just being a cunt[/QUOTE] Saying things you disagree with =/= being a cunt.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52857751]But either way Jordan Peterson has always criticized the incel community, rightfully so, and just pointed out that boys and men are having to grow up in a era where masculinity is considered a negative trait through school and other environments.[/QUOTE] Tudd raises an excellent point. How can we best represent our arguments to a complete outsider that might not understand what it is they're listening to and then, in their ignorance, accidentally agree? Here are some helpful handy dandy tips for anyone that wants to construct foolproof internet e-arguments. 1. When constructing your argument, make as many points as possible. Remember that the more points you make, the more things you can retreat to when your argument is confronted by mean troublemakers online. You weren't talking about how women are biologically wired to be attracted to testosterone-filled men, whatever that means. You were actually talking about how men are being punished for acting masculine because you made an off-hand comment about how your son wasn't allowed to throw a snowball at school. 2. Make as many assumptions about yourself and others as possible without providing any evidence for your claims. Women do not know what is best for them, you do, and you don't need studies to show it. Women love bad boys with lots of testosterone. If they don't admit that, it's because they're a crazy SJW feminist post-modern neo-marxist that is eroding the fabric of society. 3. If you do have scientific evidence, use it to enforce your opinion on others. As someone with a degree in something, you have sovereign, intimate knowledge of every human's mind and you are capable of using this information to better humanity. Remember that morality is irrelevant when you have 'facts'. As long as you have a degree, no one can ever disagree with you, and everything you say is equivalent to the spoken word of God. 4. When all else fails, misrepresent your opponent's arguments. If someone disagrees with you, they are almost certainly irrational. If you charge your statements with enough harsh words, people that aren't familiar with the topic will automatically agree with you if they think the other side is acting like children in comparison to your composed, rational self. If you use these strategies correctly, you too will be able to convince lonely white men on the internet of literally anything.
[QUOTE=V12US;52857841]Saying things you disagree with =/= being a cunt.[/QUOTE] the way he asserts his crazy points that are based on his own feelings makes him a cunt.
[QUOTE=TFA;52857473]God I wish this were satire Edit: Literally watched the H3H3 podcast yesterday and he seemed like a pretty sensible, smart guy. I suppose he still is, even if I disagree here, but this incel-type bullshit is gonna be all I can think about when seeing him now[/QUOTE] That's strange, considering he's always encouraging people to have kids. [QUOTE=Spacewizard;52857560]I object to his belief that Marxism is slowly eroding western culture. Communism has proven time and time again to be horrible but he has an irrational fear of it that clouds his judgment. He also seems to hold the belief that Communists are infiltrating and taking over American campuses but it's much harder to hold him to that because you can never be quite sure what he's talking about when he uses the phrase 'Neo-Marxist'. It's just a convenient buzzword he can use to refer to people he disagrees with. The other word he likes to use is 'Postmodern' but neither of these mean anything in the context of Jordan Peterson. SJWs, Socialists, Progressives, and in general people all the Left all seem to fall under the umbrella of Postmodern Neo-Marxism which now that I think about it I don't think I've ever seen him define.[/QUOTE] Except Peterson does know a lot about postmodernism. He's talked about what it is many, many times. He describes it as a ideological framework in which basic, human nature things such as competitiveness and success/dominance are perceived to be wholly fabricated and enforced by society, and that any and all possession of power contributes to an oppressive hierarchy (AKA the patriarchy). [video]https://youtu.be/oyzSrtr6oJE[/video]
[QUOTE=Boaraes;52857876]He describes it as a ideological framework in which basic, human nature things such as competitiveness and success/dominance are perceived to be wholly fabricated and enforced by society, and that any and all possession of power contributes to an oppressive hierarchy (AKA the patriarchy).[/QUOTE] I appreciate you linking me to a video where he gives his own definition of postmodernism because that's actually quite useful, but it's sort of avoiding what I actually take issue with. His application of the phrase makes it useless because it is just a buzzword in his vocabulary. Everyone he disagrees with, he defines as a postmodernist or a neo-marxist or both at once. Under his own definition of these things, how many of these people he accuses of holding these beliefs actually hold them? His representations of his opposition is far from fair and it's all dressed up in well articulated speech to make it palatable.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;52857876] Except Peterson does know a lot about postmodernism. He's talked about what it is many, many times. He describes it as a ideological framework in which basic, human nature things such as competitiveness and success/dominance are perceived to be wholly fabricated and enforced by society, and that any and all possession of power contributes to an oppressive hierarchy (AKA the patriarchy). [video]https://youtu.be/oyzSrtr6oJE[/video][/QUOTE] can you actually link to where he talks about that so i dont have to watch a movie length skype convo
Whenever I watch Jordan Peterson's lectures I'm reminded of that martial arts instructor who's able to keep pulling more techniques out of his ass than he could possibly be able to know and practice in order to keep you chasing something that isn't actually there. I love what he has to say on psychology and self-improvement but that's about the extent of it. Otherwise the thought that runs through my mind is people like this don't actually exist in the real world, there has to be a catch somewhere. I feel the same way about people like Henry Rollins.
[QUOTE=V12US;52857841]Saying things you disagree with =/= being a cunt.[/QUOTE] You judge people based on their opinions and deeds. This guy is expressing opinions I think are idiotic and therefore I think he's a cunt.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52857542]What's the objection? I've been reading Foucault and other people like bell hooks and everything he's said is on the money. And nor have i seen anyone make a compelling argument otherwise[/QUOTE] You've had multiple arguments directed your way and you've declined to respond to every single one when pushed sufficiently. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1577322&p=52647070#post52647070[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1583851&p=52836424&highlight=#post52836424[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1583851&p=52840132&highlight=#post52840132[/url] You keep saying 'I've read X' and then you say something that clearly runs contrary to the writings of one of these people you've apparently read. Like, prefacing a post with 'Well I've done the reading' doesn't suddenly make it authoritative when someone who HAS done the reading can come along and be utterly bemused by some of the things you say. I really want you to get out the rabbit hole dude, seriously for your own good. You post so paranoid and borderline delusional, linking some of the most innocuous things I see on here with a boogeyman you don't understand yourself.
[QUOTE=shozamar;52858430]You judge people based on their opinions and deeds. This guy is expressing opinions I think are idiotic and therefore I think he's a cunt.[/QUOTE] I disagree with this assessment (the opinion bit). I'd argue that the greatest indicator of someone's beliefs is the manner in which they act, rather than what they say (cause you know, "actions speak louder than words"). Opinions are cheap and easily changed (if you allow it), but actions and decisions are often irreversible and carry consequences. I agree with you, in that I disagree with many of the opinions expressed in this video, however, I don't think Peterson is a cunt. As far as I can tell, he has good intentions (even if some of those intentions are misguided) and shows nothing but goodwill towards others. He is a clinical psychologist is he not? His entire profession revolves around helping others overcome mental and behavioural dysfunction so that they can lead happy, healthy lives. The other thing is that you likely agree with him 99% on how society should be, but since there is an offset of 1% that is enough to warrant your dislike towards someone else. Most people, as far as I can tell, can still like other people regardless of their opinions. I have friends that have said things which I would consider "idiotic", but I don't think any of them are cunts. In particular I have one friend who is an authoritarian centrist (for context: I consider myself to be centre-left; more on the libertarian side of the coin), so we have dramatically differing political opinions, but he is still one of my best friends regardless. I certainly wouldn't consider him a cunt (we are Australian; so I actually would, but not in the American sense of the word) because of it. I honestly can't comprehend your mindset. How do you manage to maintain friendships and relationships if a few idiotic opinions are enough for you to consider them a cunt?
[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;52861439]I disagree with this assessment (the opinion bit). I'd argue that the greatest indicator of someone's beliefs is the manner in which they act, rather than what they say (cause you know, "actions speak louder than words"). Opinions are cheap and easily changed (if you allow it), but actions and decisions are often irreversible and carry consequences. I agree with you, in that I disagree with many of the opinions expressed in this video, however, I don't think Peterson is a cunt. As far as I can tell, he has good intentions (even if some of those intentions are misguided) and shows nothing but goodwill towards others. He is a clinical psychologist is he not? His entire profession revolves around helping others overcome mental and behavioural dysfunction so that they can lead happy, healthy lives. The other thing is that you likely agree with him 99% on how society should be, but since there is an offset of 1% that is enough to warrant your dislike towards someone else. Most people, as far as I can tell, can still like other people regardless of their opinions. I have friends that have said things which I would consider "idiotic", but I don't think any of them are cunts. In particular I have one friend who is an authoritarian centrist (for context: I consider myself to be centre-left; more on the libertarian side of the coin), so we have dramatically differing political opinions, but he is still one of my best friends regardless. I certainly wouldn't consider him a cunt (we are Australian; so I actually would, but not in the American sense of the word) because of it. I honestly can't comprehend your mindset. How do you manage to maintain friendships and relationships if a few idiotic opinions are enough for you to consider them a cunt?[/QUOTE] Blatant misrepresentation of things he dislikes, disingenuous methods of argument, being a total hypocrite, generalisation and collective blame of those he doesn't agree with, blowing off entire academic fields he doesn't understand (his understanding of pomo is based on a book written by a Rand fanatic that has several fabricated sources), climate change denial, pandering to reactionary views and endorsing ethnonationalists on twitter because they stick it to the left, man, boogeyman postmodern bullshit, [I]doxing of students at his college[/I] (I'm not joking, more than once now he has set his cultish goons upon 'marxist' students), thinly veiled transphobia, all these things make him a cunt. I used to think he had good intentions but was misled. No longer.
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