Pauline Hanson: Children with disabilities should be separated from other students - Polidicks

[quote]One Nation Senator Pauline Hanson says children with disabilities should be separated out of normal classrooms to give teachers a break. Speaking in support of the federal government's Australian Education Amendment Bill 2017 in the Senate today, Senator Hanson said the government needed to go "back to the basics" in the classroom. She was concerned teachers were being forced to spend too much time with children with disabilities, particularly those on the autism spectrum. "These kids have a right to an education by all means but if there is a number of them these children should actually go into a special classroom, looked after and given that special attention," Senator Hanson said. "Most of the time the teacher spends so much time on them they forget about the child who ... wants to go ahead in leaps and bounds in their education but are held back by those because the teachers spend time with them." Senator Hanson said autism was on the rise and there were not enough "special classrooms" to cater for children on the spectrum. "It's no good saying that we've got to allow these kids to feel good about themselves and we don't want to upset them and make them feel hurt," the Queensland senator said. "We have to be realistic at times and consider the impact that is having on other children in that classroom. We can't afford to hold our kids back. We have the rest of the world and other kids in other countries who are going ahead in leaps and bounds ahead of us." [/quote] Source: [url]http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/06/21/14/55/pauline-hanson-says-children-with-disabilities-should-be-separated-from-other-students[/url]

Children with severe mental disabilities, like Downs, are already separated and have special education classes in the US, which is reasonable considering their educational needs tend to be vastly different from others in their age group. Autism, though? Every autistic student I knew in high school was a nerdy, well-behaved quirky kid. I knew more people with undiagnosed behavioral problems that weren't autistic. Most autisitic people can function well enough in society as they age - behavioral issues in that age group aren't limited to autism.

Fuck off. Getting separated from the general populace is what fucked me up socially when I got older. If you treat kids like freaks, they're going to start to believe it themselves, and that helps nobody. If you want to alleviate the.burden of disabled kids on teachers, then increase funding, hire more teachers, cut down class sizes, make it easier for teachers to cater to student's individual needs instead of having to be a babysitter to a room of 50 children. Anything is better than putting kids into virtual leper colonies

I remember reading somewhere whenever Pauline or anyone else from One Nation start talking about anything other then "stop the brown people" they have a dip in support. Gee I wonder why :v: Also we already have separate classes (depending on the type and severity of the disability) for disabled students so this is just here opening her mouth so people remember she exists.

Isn't separate classroom with special teachers already a thing? Or am I missing the point? I suppose there's an important point to be made in here somewhere that is not children with special needs that are the problem, it's the limitations in and of the teachers and their work environment. Those that CAN function fine in a regular classroom should be allowed do so, but far from all teachers are equipped to deal with special needs in addition to the challenge of running a regular class.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;52385134]Isn't separate classroom with special teachers already a thing? Or am I missing the point? I suppose there's an important point to be made in here somewhere that is not children with special needs that are the problem, it's the limitations in and of the teachers and their work environment. Those that CAN function fine in a regular classroom should be allowed do so, but far from all teachers are equipped to deal with special needs in addition to the challenge of running a regular class.[/QUOTE] This might not be all too relevant but I've had to do an internship at preschool this year and one of the classes had a mentally handicapped kid with seriously noisy episodes. His personal assistant had to take him outside class every hour or so and have him jump hoops and walk on stilts. Overall still I think this was a good arrangement because whenever he was in the classroom he would attempt to take part in activities that all the other children were doing, and he had a pretty good grasp of how the alphabet worked. If one assistant is enough to take a kid with such a disruptive handicap to class then everything can work with the right framework. I wish professional politicians would stop acting like they know shit about how school and pedagogy work. These days it's minister after minister in the education department who've never had a class in front of them and should really shut it.

Lol Pauline Hanson is barely a "professional politician", she's a former fish and chip shop owner who leads One Nation which is basicly Australia's alt right/racist/idiot box party. They don't do very well outside of their stomping grounds in Queensland. The only reason they exist is to sythen votes off racists and confused elderly people because political parties in Australia receive a bit of money for every vote they get if they get over 1000 1st votes in an election. I mentioned confused elderly people because her and her minions say dumb stuff like this to stay in the public eye and from what I've seen a few oldies will vote for whoever they see on TV shouting about brown people the most

in the same vein, should we separate pauline from the other politicians too?

I guarantee you the vast majority of people with disabilities of any kind just want to be treated with the same respect you'd give to any other student. Don't shuffle them off to another room and alienate them under the guise of protecting them. All that accomplishes, besides socially alienating them, is a division of resources. Special Ed departments in the united states at least are hands down the most underfunded, understaffed, misunderstood, and overworked departments in the country. Girlfriend's family had to sue the state of florida department of education because they refused to give accommodations to her autistic older brother. Their reasoning was "he can walk and talk, therefore he's not autistic and just needs better parents". They won, but it was only a token victory as florida DOE had literally no resources to help him, and no money to award them upon them winning.

I think the current education structure is outdated and starting to fail. Bright kids can't move forward to their full potential, and the not so bright kids are being left behind because they can't get the focus they need. The only way forward is an education system that focuses on the individual students instead of a group.

Also to make things clear this is a (not very popular) Australian politician talking about Australian schools which normally do have programs or separate classes for students who are severely disabled or need just need some help. Not going to say our school system is perfect but it's very different from the USA. I went to a primary school with a separate class for disabled students but they were also allowed to participate in regular classes depending on their disability.

[QUOTE=Whomobile;52385696]Also to make things clear this is a (not very popular) Australian politician talking about Australian schools which normally do have programs or separate classes for students who are severely disabled or need just need some help. Not going to say our school system is perfect but it's very different from the USA. I went to a primary school with a separate class for disabled students but they were also allowed to participate in regular classes depending on their disability.[/QUOTE] That sounds exactly like how accommodations were met at my school in the US. Only the most disruptive or impaired students were not included in normal classes, e.g. very low functioning individuals with Down Syndrome. Less impaired students attended regular classes with a para's company if necessary. [editline]21st June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52385686]I think the current education structure is outdated and starting to fail. Bright kids can't move forward to their full potential, and the not so bright kids are being left behind because they can't get the focus they need. The only way forward is an education system that focuses on the individual students instead of a group.[/QUOTE] Do Australian schools or most American schools not have "gifted" programs for students with exceptional potential? The district I was in had classes to accommodate people until AP/honors courses were an option.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;52385643]I guarantee you the vast majority of people with disabilities of any kind just want to be treated with the same respect you'd give to any other student. Don't shuffle them off to another room and alienate them under the guise of protecting them. All that accomplishes, besides socially alienating them, is a division of resources.[/QUOTE] I can vouch for this. I used to go to special ed classes as well as regular classes, and even though I had massive behavioral issues which made the special ed class necessary, I wanted to be seen as a normal kid rather than that autistic kid from special ed, and was glad to be able to leave the program between 4th and 5th grade, which is apparently a rare thing to happen. If I were to be completely isolated from everyone else, I'd imagine that I'd end up being worse off.

[IMG]http://www.onenation.com.au/images/candidates/Pauline%20Promo%20150x150.jpg[/IMG] Somebody should separate her from the populace...

Wasn't that the one who said Aussie internet should be improved because "Australians keep losing at online video games"?

[QUOTE=Uber22;52386189][IMG]http://www.onenation.com.au/images/candidates/Pauline%20Promo%20150x150.jpg[/IMG] Somebody should separate her from the populace...[/QUOTE] what point are you trying to make here

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52385686]I think the current education structure is outdated and starting to fail. Bright kids can't move forward to their full potential, and the not so bright kids are being left behind because they can't get the focus they need. The only way forward is an education system that focuses on the individual students instead of a group.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education[/url]

Ok so what is the expectation then if nobody thinks they shouldn't get separated into a special needs, focused classroom? How much time and resources is a teacher expected to waste on a kid who has disruptive tendencies due to a legitimate condition? It's unfair to overwork the teacher beyond the shit they already put up with just because you feel like the idea of classrooms purely for special needs kids is a bad thing. It's not. They get the focused attention they need to keep going and the other kids who don't meet the same needs can get the attention they deserve as well. I don't care about who this politician is but the idea of what she's suggesting isn't news and makes sense to me. Like, no offense but everyone isn't the same. You can't expect a normal teaching environment to accommodate a student with special needs. And I'm talking about the kind like Down syndrome and high leveled autism. It's nothing to do with discrimination. It's about making everyone happy and justly allowing a fair educating evironment to all students and teachers.

Hire more teachers. Hire specialized teachers or assistants to assist normal teachers with their school day. Have smaller classrooms that allow for more individualized attention rather than shoving 20-30+ kids into one classroom and expecting a teacher to be able to manage all of those in addition to special needs kids. Inclusion [I]can[/I] be done, it just requires staff and administration to be up to par. None of it is reliant on the student, it all depends on what the school does to accommodate. If they don't make any effort to adjust their staff or hire staff that is experienced with special needs and disabilities, then of course teachers are gonna be overworked and unable to accommodate both special needs students and more advanced students. It always goes back to administration with these sorts of situations. Separating these students into special classes only works so much before you start isolating them and making them a target because they're separate and different. They don't develop alongside other students who function differently, they only develop as much as you're allowing them to by keeping them from being in environments that they will experience when they're older. By offering them an opportunity to function and learn in an average classroom, they get that experience that may be the difference between needing care all of their lives or being able to actually enter the workforce because of the skills they pick up along the way. Obvs not every student will be able to work when they're older, but at least they'll be offered the opportunity to learn some essential skills that they might not be able to pick up in a classroom that's full of special needs students that are similar to them.

As a disabled student, I had absolutely no problem integrating into a normal classroom environment. I find it ridiculous that Hanson is even suggesting this; disability doesn't always equate to the student being "difficult"

Kids with learning difficulties need separate classes. It's common sense, you cant just throw them in with higher achieving kids because they'll be left behind. They get way more one on one learning when there is dedicated classes for kids with learning difficulties, which can only be a good thing. As for the social aspect, it's not achievable to have them in the same class, they'll either be left behind or they will need extra help, which can be humiliating if its infront of a class. You cant just "hire more teachers" it's not economically feasible, and nobody is willing to do that.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52387233]Kids with learning difficulties need separate classes. It's common sense, you cant just throw them in with higher achieving kids because they'll be left behind. They get way more one on one learning when there is dedicated classes for kids with learning difficulties, which can only be a good thing. As for the social aspect, it's not achievable to have them in the same class, they'll either be left behind or they will need extra help, which can be humiliating if its infront of a class. You cant just "hire more teachers" it's not economically feasible, and nobody is willing to do that.[/QUOTE] Define a "learning disability." I have ADHD, and throughout high school I struggled a lot with getting homework completed on time and maintaining good attendance. I was in advanced classes, and I never disrupted class, and I didn't receive any special attention. If I was put into a separate "special education" class with the other kids with learning disabilities, like Downs or severe autism, my education would have been irreversibly fucked, because the more severe the disability, the more individual attention they require. Which means I'd be forced into classes with less challenge to "compensate" for my learning disability, even though my ADHD did nothing more than make my homework take longer to finish. Where do you define the limit of what disabilities need to be separated? The accommodations I got in high school, like not having points docked significantly for late work, didn't require [I]any[/I] special teacher attention during class time or extra hires. There are kids with autism that express severe behavioral issues and constantly disrupt class, and at that point you need to put them in a learning environment that caters to their needs more, for the sake of both them and the other students. There are also kids with autism that are incredibly quiet, studious, smart, and require zero extra attention from teachers - should you lump them with the mentally disabled kids? Like I said in the first post - Downs, absolutely, because it's a severe enough learning disability that they [I]absolutely require[/I] special attention. We do that in the states. Autism, though? Seriously? You can just make structural accommodations without requiring new hires or special teacher attention in the majority of cases.

Things like this are entirely situational and shouldn't exclusively apply to kids with disabilities. There are so many classes that would easily be improved if the people who made a lot of noise, disruptions etc just got moved into one with other people of their type.

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;52386132]Do Australian schools or most American schools not have "gifted" programs for students with exceptional potential? The district I was in had classes to accommodate people until AP/honors courses were an option.[/QUOTE] Not really, at least in public schools. The closest we had to classes for varying levels was in the final two years of high school, you could pick from three levels of maths classes. Maths A for people who didn't plan on going to uni, Maths B for people who did and Maths C for people planning to go on into advanced STEM. That's it.

I was in a mixed class like that in primary school, yeah the teachers were busy with them all the time to the point where they just had our class have two teachers all the time for each subject And that was just two kids, one with autism and one with downs syndrome.

Let's also not forget the fact that these kids are (or at least in my case were) treated differently when it comes to punishment, I've shared what happened in the past to me before here, and they don't get punish d to the same degree as "normal" kids, they get more attention in class than others, sometimes to the point of other students barely getting any attention, and if you try to speak out against that their parents label you a bigot, for daring to suggest that their special snowflake might be assaulting other kids.

Bizarrely enough it used to be separated however only lately 2002 onward have disable students being entering the public school system and normal class's. I remember talking to one of the school principles in 2004 and they it's frustrating as they've gotta buy new equipment and hire support to help students that could otherwise be in specialized schools that deal with these type of things.

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In my school there were plenty of run of the mill dipshits that caused more of a distraction than any "disabled" person I've ever known. Surely something like this should be taken on a case by case basis? You know, like it already is?

In Ontario we had two kids with down syndrome in the class, but they had a special education teacher with them as well.