• [London Underground] Mon-Thursday Strike Imminent... that's 3 Strikes in One Year.
    55 replies, posted
[B]UPDATE: STRIKE CANCELLED M8[/B] [url]https://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2014/may/london-underground-statement-as-rmt-leadership-confirm-tube-strike-is-suspend[/url] [quote=excerpt]“Modernisation of the Tube means that it is our intention to close all ticket offices, used in less than 3 per cent of journeys, and instead deliver a vastly better customer service by bringing more staff than ever before out on to the concourses of stations at ticket machines, ticket gates and platforms – just as we delivered during the London 2012 Games. This will also allow us to save £50 million per annum to reinvest in better and more reliable train services and to keep fares down.” [/quote] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DPEvouf.jpg[/IMG] let's look at the average day in China: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8XFaBSY.jpg[/IMG] [quote=excerpt]A three-day Tube strike is set to go ahead after talks broke down between London Underground and the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union. Members will go on strike for 72 hours from 21:00 BST on 5 May over plans to close ticket offices and cut 960 jobs.[/quote] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27248848[/url] why... are these buffoons allowed to run a major transport line?
Unions boost third-world countries and bring developed countries down.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44706757]Unions boost third-world countries and bring developed countries down.[/QUOTE] Yeah man, if it wasn't for unions, we could have already been in the beautiful ideal of industrial era Britain. Or maybe a bit like today China. The wonderful exploitation of desperate poverty struck populace. Ah, if only. [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] (Let me point out I honestly do not know if in this case the unionists are being unreasonable, but statement like that is just plain ridiculous)
I have exams on the 6th-9th April. It normally takes an hour to get to the venue on a good day. It's going to be hell...
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44706757]Unions boost third-world countries and bring developed countries down.[/QUOTE] Yeah, how dare they fight to be treated like humans and not like slaves. This is the 21st century who do they think they are!
[video=youtube;BgwoPG63B3Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgwoPG63B3Y[/video]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44706809]Yeah man, if it wasn't for unions, we could have already been in the beautiful ideal of industrial era Britain. Or maybe a bit like today China. The wonderful exploitation of desperate poverty struck populace. Ah, if only. [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] (Let me point out I honestly do not know if in this case the unionists are being unreasonable, but statement like that is just plain ridiculous)[/QUOTE] thing is that there is laws for that kind of stuff
It boggles the mind that American workers have been brainwashed to think that unions don't act in the interest of the workers, and that they are a bad thing. I'm looking specifically at you Matthew7434. The outright hostility towards them is simply hilarious. Honestly, do you think that these workers should have a right to strike, to protect 960 jobs in a competitive working environment that is London? Laws can't replace unions. Laws are static, usually presided over by the upper class, who have interests in keeping pay low and benefits low. Workers are usually trying to protect jobs, or earn a decent wage for what they do. A good unionised workforce is probably the closest one can get to the dictatorship of the Proletariat in a capitalistic society.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44710022]It boggles the mind that American workers have been brainwashed to think that unions don't act in the interest of the workers, and that they are a bad thing.[/QUOTE] They protect the interests of their workers at what cost? Almost every union in history has been involved in organized crime at some point to achieve their goals, and some regularly run with criminal organizations. Activities have ranged from corruption, embezzlement, coercion, extortion, larceny, violence and murder. Then you have the problem of unions causing businesses to fail because of outlandish compensation and benefit demands. And even if businesses don't fail, the ridiculous demands drive up prices for the consumer that have to buy said product under the unionized workforce. [QUOTE=The Aussie;44710022]Laws can't replace unions. Laws are static, usually presided over by the upper class, who have interests in keeping pay low and benefits low. Workers are usually trying to protect jobs, or earn a decent wage for what they do. A good unionised workforce is probably the closest one can get to the dictatorship of the Proletariat in a capitalistic society.[/QUOTE] You have such a twisted view of the world that it's hilarious. Rich people BAD cuz they keep tha poo man down! Unions are a redundant product of a bygone era that have no place in modern society.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44710022]It boggles the mind that American workers have been brainwashed to think that unions don't act in the interest of the workers, and that they are a bad thing. I'm looking specifically at you Matthew7434. The outright hostility towards them is simply hilarious. Honestly, do you think that these workers should have a right to strike, to protect 960 jobs in a competitive working environment that is London? Laws can't replace unions. Laws are static, usually presided over by the upper class, who have interests in keeping pay low and benefits low. Workers are usually trying to protect jobs, or earn a decent wage for what they do. A good unionised workforce is probably the closest one can get to the dictatorship of the Proletariat in a capitalistic society.[/QUOTE] Unions are a pain in the fucking ass. They bring needless burden into the office, and force people to have one basic job, and disallow you from aiding others with their work because, "you're not trained for this >:(" even if it's a job that a monkey could do. Not to mention a good number of the labor unions in the East Coast and Midwest were run by the Mafia in illegal labor ventures... So yeah.
[QUOTE=AK'z;44706732] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8XFaBSY.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE] off topic but this picture is clearly edited, in less there just so happens to be a twin convention happening
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;44710449]They protect the interests of their workers at what cost? Almost every union in history has been involved in organized crime at some point to achieve their goals, and some regularly run with criminal organizations. Activities have ranged from corruption, embezzlement, coercion, extortion, larceny, violence and murder.[/quote] No. Straight up, 100% fucking no. That is just a blatantly untrue statement to make. You're saying the 100% of all unions ever are involved in organised crime. You're fucking wrong. I know of several major unions, both my parents are in Unions, and most of my relatives are in unionised workforces. I have not once ever heard of any such claim. [quote]Then you have the problem of unions causing businesses to fail because of outlandish compensation and benefit demands. And even if businesses don't fail, the ridiculous demands drive up prices for the consumer that have to buy said product under the unionized workforce. You have such a twisted view of the world that it's hilarious. Rich people BAD cuz they keep tha poo man down! Unions are a redundant product of a bygone era that have no place in modern society.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but it seems to me that you're the one with the twisted world view. Have you considered its also in the best interests for the workers to not bankrupt their parents companies? Why the fuck would union bosses choose to bankrupt their employers? Union bosses aren't retarded, they realise that if the parent goes bankrupt, they lose their job and everyone they represent loses their job too. I would also love for you to show me how the owners of companies in America love giving liveable salaries with good benefits. I would also like to see how a fair amount and number of employees are employed to prevent overworking. You Americans are so proud of being overworked. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44710712]Unions are a pain in the fucking ass. They bring needless burden into the office, and force people to have one basic job, and disallow you from aiding others with their work because, "you're not trained for this >:(" even if it's a job that a monkey could do. Not to mention a good number of the labor unions in the East Coast and Midwest were run by the Mafia in illegal labor ventures... So yeah.[/QUOTE] 1. See above. 2. Yes, i agree Unions complicate the office, but it's nice to feel safe and secure in your Job, wage and benefits. 3. Taking my parents as another real world example, i can say that my parents aren't stuck to one job. My dad was pretty much a manual labourer. However, after cuts at work, he did his accreditations through the union to replace people who got made redundant. It's also worth mentioning again that just because a workforce is unionised, doesn't mean that people cant be fired (well, made redundant). Now he actually does skilled work, and works in a variety of situations. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] God unions in America are fucking retarded.
At this point I hate both parties with equal fury. It has stopped being about finding a reasonable solution and compromise a long time ago and now it is just a dick waving contest between the RMT and London Underground with no one wanting to back down even a tiny bit. And in the end it is us who gets royally shafted. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] Though I have to say one major problem with tube strikes (and probably any transportation strike in general) is that they serve more as an intimidation tool rather than a way for the workers to garner sympathy. London Underground simply pounces on the opportunity to make a big show of how hard they are trying to keep everything moving (while actually doing pretty much jack shit) and simply portrays the strikes and strikers as an unreasonable minority only wishing to cause as much trouble as possible. But on the other hand it is really really difficult to sympathise with anyone who cause you to miss 2-3 days of work or force you to get up 2 hours earlier and get back home 2 hours later.
It's a bit ironic really - by striking all the time they're just showing how useful it would be to get rid of them and automate everything, which precisely what they're trying to avoid!
Get rid of the drivers and get automated trains, robots dont complain
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067]No. Straight up, 100% fucking no. That is just a blatantly untrue statement to make. You're saying the 100% of all unions ever are involved in organised crime. You're fucking wrong. I know of several major unions, both my parents are in Unions, and most of my relatives are in unionised workforces. I have not once ever heard of any such claim. I'm sorry but it seems to me that you're the one with the twisted world view. Have you considered its also in the best interests for the workers to not bankrupt their parents companies? Why the fuck would union bosses choose to bankrupt their employers? Union bosses aren't retarded, they realise that if the parent goes bankrupt, they lose their job and everyone they represent loses their job too. I would also love for you to show me how the owners of companies in America love giving liveable salaries with good benefits. I would also like to see how a fair amount and number of employees are employed to prevent overworking. You Americans are so proud of being overworked. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] 1. See above. 2. Yes, i agree Unions complicate the office, but it's nice to feel safe and secure in your Job, wage and benefits. 3. Taking my parents as another real world example, i can say that my parents aren't stuck to one job. My dad was pretty much a manual labourer. However, after cuts at work, he did his accreditations through the union to replace people who got made redundant. It's also worth mentioning again that just because a workforce is unionised, doesn't mean that people cant be fired (well, made redundant). Now he actually does skilled work, and works in a variety of situations. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] God unions in America are fucking retarded.[/QUOTE] I know. How do foreign ones work? Unions are one of the big reasons that Detroit is in the shit that it's in because they had to pay large pensions to retirees (why do they have to pay them? they aren't working anymore!), so when people stopped buying cars the unions took all the money. Same with LA having to shut down public schools to pay teacher's union pensions.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44706757]Unions boost third-world countries and bring developed countries down.[/QUOTE] You're hilarious.
I don't think that the criticisms of trade unions by people in this thread are inherent of trade unions, rather it's a case of a few bad apples. Unions can continue to do good, just as they have in the past. Standards of transparency and accountability need to be in place. I thankfully do not need to be in a union due to my positive relationship with management at my workplace (I pretty much work the hours that I want to do, as long as I turn up on the day).
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44717523]I know. How do foreign ones work? Unions are one of the big reasons that Detroit is in the shit that it's in because they had to pay large pensions to retirees (why do they have to pay them? they aren't working anymore!), so when people stopped buying cars the unions took all the money. Same with LA having to shut down public schools to pay teacher's union pensions.[/QUOTE] The pensions supposedly dragging everything down is an extremely flawed narrative. Detroit vastly inflated their pension liability figures to trigger the emergency manager law and give them a way to fuck the retirees out of the pensions they EARNED. It is not free money, is it earned by spending your life working. How fucked up is it that you think [I]retirement[/I] is a bad thing? Should those people have simply worked until they died, as this generation gets to look forward to now that organized labor is essentially dead?
Unions are still useful for wage and salary negotiations. Inflation is natural and employers will naturally attempt to minimise costs where possible, so there needs to be negotiations so that wages and salaries keep up with inflation rather than decrease in real terms. Minimum wage can't do it alone, especially if you earn a wage which is far from the minimum.
I agree with the city in this case, ticket offices are a thing of the past. When I was in NYC they had all but done away with ticket offices and gone straight to computer terminals to sell tickets and they were very fast.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44710712]Unions are a pain in the fucking ass. They bring needless burden into the office, and force people to have one basic job, and disallow you from aiding others with their work because, "you're not trained for this >:(" even if it's a job that a monkey could do. Not to mention a good number of the labor unions in the East Coast and Midwest were run by the Mafia in illegal labor ventures... So yeah.[/QUOTE] wow that's plain bullshit. the union at the plant I was working for allowed people to move from one job to the other once every year, granted a brick making plant isn't super complex, but it just shows to say you're full of shit.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;44717672]wow that's plain bullshit. the union at the plant I was working for allowed people to move from one job to the other once every year, granted a brick making plant isn't super complex, but it just shows to say you're full of shit.[/QUOTE] He's right though. This whole 'a desk fan got unplugged and now I have to wait for someone to plug it back in' thing is true. The SCG and studio workers unions do that kind of shit. Just because you work in a brick factory doesn't mean its the same for everyone else.
To all you guys bitching about "evil unions" : how about you come like in my state, a right to work state, and then fucking tell me that unions are evil. You're spreading anti-union propaganda but have never experienced the employment hell that is a union less work environment. I mean, unless you enjoy being verbally abused by your employer legally for less than minimum wage that is. Once you give me proof that you've worked in the conditions that come from your idiotic ideology, I'll give you the credibility you presently hardly deserve the notion of getting a sliver of. I've worked for $6 an hour, 12 hour days and been verbally abused by my boss legally. Did I quit my job? Yeah, but only because I didn't HAVE to have a job at that point, had I needed the money to survive it would have been absolute hell. Just because you take unions for granted in your sheltered fucking world, doesn't mean everyone else does. Despite your almost religious preaching that big trickle down economics is a functional idea and that employees would somehow be better off if the employer wasn't forced to treat them like human beings, I don't think anyone smarter than a hand full of sand will buy into it, and I really doubt you have any actual experience that says otherwise besides the "evil union ruins X" stories you watched on Fox News.
From striking, to union arguments. Welcome to Facepunch. Anyway, I don't see why the Underground cannot be automated.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067] I would also love for you to show me how the owners of companies in America love giving liveable salaries with good benefits.[/QUOTE] I would totally show you that, if I was ever payed a wage that could be considered livable. The most I ever was able to get was 10.00 an hour, and that was with having almost three years of experience in film, a sizable portfolio and a bunch of people vouching for me. In the end the news station was shut down and I lost the only decent job I had, and that's considering the fact I was verbally, and a few times physically, abused by the Anchors and boss on a daily basis. And I wouldn't even consider it a livable wage, considering I only got paid for 4 of the 7 hours I was at work a day, 3 on weekends since there were only two shows instead of three. I went to work at 4pm and got off at 11pm week days and 5pm to 11pm weekends. I also did all the graphic design for the shows and camera work during the shows, often being yelled at on commercial breaks because the anchors messed up their lines and looked like idiots, which was somehow my fault, no idea how. [editline]4th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=OfficerLamarr;44719638]From striking, to union arguments. Welcome to Facepunch. Anyway, I don't see why the Underground cannot be automated.[/QUOTE] It puts people out of jobs, but really with unemployment systems as good as the UK should have, these people should be okay until they find another job. I don't really know though, I don't live there anymore and was too young to really grasp the system anyway.
[QUOTE=agentalexandre;44706841]I have exams on the 6th-9th April. It normally takes an hour to get to the venue on a good day. It's going to be hell...[/QUOTE] It's okay, I don't think the London transport system operates in Kuwait anyway so you should be fine.
[QUOTE=Ricool06;44719758]It's okay, I don't think the London transport system operates in Kuwait anyway so you should be fine.[/QUOTE] I'm hoping you were joking, but anyway as far as I know the flags just show the country you first registered your FP account not the country you are at the moment. At least for me.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;44710449]You have such a twisted view of the world that it's hilarious. Rich people BAD cuz they keep tha poo man down! Unions are a redundant product of a bygone era that have no place in modern society.[/QUOTE] Why did you even bother typing this part of the post? -Mockery because someone has a different opinion to you. -Mockery through a false impression. (The Aussie was rather eloquent in his post.) -Repetition of your point with no further explanation. You don't help the argument against unions when you debate like that. Personally, I think unions are vital to keeping competitive industry viable and comfortable for workers who are often exploited. Some overstep their bounds sometimes, but without opposing force to big business, there is not much keeping the little guy safe.
I can't wait for the tube to be automated.
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