[url]http://www.tiger-apotheke.de/[/url]
[img]http://horobox.reager.org/u/orkel_1422217515.jpg[/img]
[quote]Pharmacist Otto Carius slept on 01/24/2015 after a short illness, surrounded by his loved ones at his home and his familiar surroundings. We thank him for many wonderful years and the existence of the Tiger pharmacy.[/quote]
[quote]Otto Carius (27 May 1922 – 24 January 2015) was a former German tank ace within the German Army who fought during World War II and was credited with destroying more than 150 tanks. He was a recipient of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves. The Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross and its higher grade Oak Leaves were awarded to recognise extreme battlefield bravery or successful military leadership.[/quote]
Orkel I can't say I'm surprised you'd post this.
What a shame, though. Carius was beyond a legend.
rest in peace
[QUOTE=Saza;47001657]Orkel I can't say I'm surprised you'd post this.
What a shame, though. Carius was beyond a legend.[/QUOTE]
yes thank god he destroyed all those allied tanks
[QUOTE=ijyt;47002038]yes thank god he destroyed all those allied tanks[/QUOTE]
Yeah, them nazis were all monsters there is no way to even think that I will give him due credit when there's firebombing berlin to be done
In case anyone is stupid enough, sarcasm.
[QUOTE=ijyt;47002038]yes thank god he destroyed all those allied tanks[/QUOTE]
Because the crews inside the axis tanks were not human too right?
[QUOTE=ijyt;47002038]yes thank god he destroyed all those allied tanks[/QUOTE]
Watch a little too much world war II hd there have ya?
Otto Carius and in fact all of the German panzer aces were heroes.
They fought for their country against odds both theoretically and actually astounding. Some survived, and some did not. They accomplished feats ordinary men would describe as impossible without proof, and they did it with technology that today we would call barbaric.
More impressive are the tours of duty served by the German soldiers, who often were put on rotation with no definite tour-end. Today we're outraged when a soldier sits in Iraq for four months when he was put down for two, but a German soldier would sit in Russia for half a year and could easily sit there another half year.
There are of course other tank aces, who fought for every country. However none fought in the way or to the extent that the Panzer Aces did.
Some might say war is fetishized, and that we ought not glorify violence. I personally am not glorifying the violence or murder of these soldiers. I am astounded by the display of duty, skill and talent they put toward that end. If they had been musicians, artists, or scientists who accomplished as much with so little then I would be equally impressed.
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47002219]Otto Carius and in fact all of the German panzer aces were heroes.
They fought for their country against odds both theoretically and actually astounding. Some survived, and some did not. They accomplished feats ordinary men would describe as impossible without proof, and they did it with technology that today we would call barbaric.
More impressive are the tours of duty served by the German soldiers, who often were put on rotation with no definite tour-end. Today we're outraged when a soldier sits in Iraq for four months when he was put down for two, but a German soldier would sit in Russia for half a year and could easily sit there another half year.
There are of course other tank aces, who fought for every country. However none fought in the way or to the extent that the Panzer Aces did.
Some might say war is fetishized, and that we ought not glorify violence. I personally am not glorifying the violence or murder of these soldiers. I am astounded by the display of duty, skill and talent they put toward that end. If they had been musicians, artists, or scientists who accomplished as much with so little then I would be equally impressed.[/QUOTE]
Never have I seen a post on Facepunch that so succinctly captured my own thoughts. I wouldn't have been able to put it into words with the grace that you did.
Even though he was a Nazi, I think there was a beautiful side to how honorable these men of war were. Reminds me of the Allies giving the Red Baron (different times obviously) a burial with full military honor, even though he had killed so many of their own pilots.
[QUOTE=ZenZill;47002345]Even though he was a Nazi, I think there was a beautiful side to how honorable these men of war were. Reminds me of the Allies giving the Red Baron (different times obviously) a burial with full military honor, even though he had killed so many of their own pilots.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't a nazi, he just fought in the German army.
[QUOTE=ZenZill;47002345]Even though he was a Nazi,[/QUOTE]
That's like saying everyone in the British army is a Tory or everyone in the American army during the invasion of Iraq was Republican, it's simply untrue.
Most german soldiers didn't care for nazi ideology, especially carius. They fought for their country. They're fighting for those who can't protect themselves, what the country has given them, what the country once was. If I were in Iraq fighting, I would fight for my country and my brothers, not for religion or political ideals.
you all should read his book, Tigers in the Mud, it's a fucking fantastic autobiography.
If only these tank aces knew how much we nerds would be arguing over virtual tanks based on their endeavors for ages to come.
my dad adored this man (he's a ww2 fetishist)
[QUOTE=Orkel;47002388]He wasn't a nazi, he just fought in the German army.[/QUOTE]
True. However, "I defended the Nazis and their ideology " Isn't a whole lot better than being all for it.
The whole "Honorable Wehrmacht fighting to protect their country" myth is a chunk of near revisionism that a disappointing amount of people seem to have bought in to.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47002481]True. However, "I defended the Nazis and their ideology " Isn't a whole lot better than being all for it.
The whole "Honorable Wehrmacht fighting to protect their country" myth is a chunk of near revisionism that a disappointing amount of people seem to have bought in to.[/QUOTE]
There is no difference between people like Otto and Allied Soldiers other than one side lost the War.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47002481]True. However, "I defended the Nazis and their ideology " Isn't a whole lot better than being all for it.
The whole "Honorable Wehrmacht fighting to protect their country" myth is a chunk of near revisionism that a disappointing amount of people seem to have bought in to.[/QUOTE]
"all germans were evil nazis" is even more bullshit
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47002481]True. However, "I defended the Nazis and their ideology " Isn't a whole lot better than being all for it.
The whole "Honorable Wehrmacht fighting to protect their country" myth is a chunk of near revisionism that a disappointing amount of people seem to have bought in to.[/QUOTE]
Except it's not a myth, nor is it the truth. The only real myth occurred after world war 2 when the Soviets, and the Americans (to an extent) demonized an entire generation of men.
Was the Wehrmacht as a whole a honorable force? Probably not, though no army is.
It's war, some people fought to stop Bolshevism, some fought for tradition, as a conscript, some most likely did fight for the Nazi ideology, others had no where else to go. But having read Tigers in the mud, there is nothing to suggest Carius fought to defend Nazi ideology. It's easy to besmirch them 70 years later when you aren't in the same position. If you personally were conscripted it could be the front line or the firing line.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47002481]True. However, "I defended the Nazis and their ideology " Isn't a whole lot better than being all for it.
The whole "Honorable Wehrmacht fighting to protect their country" myth is a chunk of near revisionism that a disappointing amount of people seem to have bought in to.[/QUOTE]
So would you rather the families starve without a job? Or attempt to unrealistically move out of the country that they have lived in for generations? Or worse, let their country get raped and pillaged?
You don't have to agree with the government to sign up for the army. They were protecting their families and their way of life the only way they thought available to them.
Not to say there were absolutely no supporters of the government in the army, since that wouldn't be true either. But I'd wager a majority of them were just as you would expect, normal people that wanted to protect Germany and bought into the propaganda.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47002524]"all germans were evil nazis" is even more bullshit[/QUOTE]
"both sides of WW2 were actually aliens" is even more bullshit than that, but it's not a viewpoint worth being challenged because nobody actually believes that. Seriously, when was the last time you actually heard someone say "all germans were evil nazis" and meant it? Meanwhile, we get to hear all the time about how the Wehrmacht were all a bunch of swell guys who wanted to fight Communism, and how the only difference between the soldiers of one army or another are whether they win or lose, which wouldn't be so annoying if people weren't so damn inconsistent about it when applying that logic to *ahem* our [I]other enemies[/I].
[QUOTE=The Haski;47002519]There is no difference between people like Otto and Allied Soldiers other than one side lost the War.[/QUOTE]
There is a huge moral difference in fighting on the side of a nation that sought not just the domination of an entire continent but the entire world through what was at the beginning an entirely offensive campaign, and who was participating in, or at the very least making it considerably easier for others even more fucked to go through with an attempted genocide and mass killings of other undesirables than fighting on the side that liberated the countries they invaded and got their prisoners out of the death camps and then set your country up for success once it was defeated. You're acting like Nazi Germany was fighting a purely defensive war in WWII, which would in my mind, justify the "just fighting to protect their land" argument, but that's not how it was, not even close to being any kind of true.
Someone should tell all those Eastern European civilians who were murdered by the Wehrmacht that they were mistaken in associating them with the Nazi Party who ruled Germany. They were just fighting for their country, but not the Nazi's big difference. :downs:
Also not to totally shit up this thread, but you can respect the accomplishments of someone without apologizing for their association. I just wish people would stop trying to crowbar German soldiers away from Nazi Germany. Sorry they fought in the armed forces of the Third Reich, their personal political affiliation is a moot point when their service advanced the objectives of the Nazis.
The Wehrmacht were not "good guys" fighting for their country, they were in many cases just as culpable as the SS for atrocities.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47002581]There is a huge moral difference in fighting on the side of a nation that sought not just the domination of an entire continent but the entire world through what was at the beginning an entirely offensive campaign, and who was participating in, or at the very least making it considerably easier for others even more fucked to go through with an attempted genocide and mass killings of other undesirables than fighting on the side that liberated the countries they invaded and got their prisoners out of the death camps and then set your country up for success once it was defeated. You're acting like Nazi Germany was fighting a purely defensive war in WWII, which would in my mind, justify the "just fighting to protect their land" argument, but that's not how it was, not even close to being any kind of true.[/QUOTE]
You once again moved from focusing on Otto to a nation scale attempting to push some duality of Good v. Evil. Let's look at the facts:
Was Carius a member of the the Nazi Party? Nope.
Did he join the war with the intention of pushing their Ideology? Nope, he was DRAFTED.
Did he personally kill Jews in the holocaust? Nope.
Did he even play any role in it? Nope.
It's incredible naive to just draw up sides between the Allies and the Axis where everyone on the opposing force was bad since "Nazis we're bad!". We're all aware of the horrendous crimes committed by the SS in the Second World War, but this isn't about them or an army it's about recognising the accomplishments of individual regardless of what side he was on.
Saying Otto is bad because of the Holocaust would be like saying we can't appreciate Audie Murphy, etc ,etc because of the war crimes the Allies committed i.e. Dresden, Hiroshima.
I think we can't really judge all soldiers (much less countries) that fought for particular governments. At the end of the day, most soldiers cannot really control those who tell them what to do (Rommel tried, and even having Hitler fetishise the guy couldn't save him). I can't blame all Finish soldiers and call them monster, just because some of them were running their own prison camps, even if most of my grandmother's family have died there.
[QUOTE=ijyt;47002038]yes thank god he destroyed all those allied tanks[/QUOTE]
WWII ended nearly 70 years ago, buddy.
[QUOTE=ijyt;47002038]yes thank god he destroyed all those allied tanks[/QUOTE]
Cause you know, WWII was a fight of good and evil
[QUOTE=Srillo;47002615]Someone should tell all those Eastern European civilians who were murdered by the Wehrmacht that they were mistaken in associating them with the Nazi Party who ruled Germany. They were just fighting for their country, but not the Nazi's big difference. :downs:
Also not to totally shit up this thread, but you can respect the accomplishments of someone without apologizing for their association. I just wish people would stop trying to crowbar German soldiers away from Nazi Germany. Sorry they fought in the armed forces of the Third Reich, their personal political affiliation is a moot point when their service advanced the objectives of the Nazis.
The Wehrmacht were not "good guys" fighting for their country, they were in many cases just as culpable as the SS for atrocities.[/QUOTE]
Someone should tell all those eastern Europeans raped, killed, and occupied by the soviets that they were just being liberated. No one is arguing that the Wehrmacht was good. People are arguing that its foolish to demonize and make false assumptions about every man who served, regardless of sides.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;47002449]That's like saying everyone in the British army is a Tory or everyone in the American army during the invasion of Iraq was Republican, it's simply untrue.[/QUOTE]
I don't think comparing Nazis and republicans is warranted either way :v:
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
