Martha Fernback ecstasy death: Mother calls for drugs legalisation - Polidicks

[QUOTE][B]A woman whose 15-year-old daughter died after taking ecstasy has called for drugs to be legalised and regulated. [/B]Anne-Marie Cockburn urged politicians to change UK drug policy after the inquest into the death of her daughter Martha Fernback. Oxford schoolgirl Martha suffered a cardiac arrest on 20 July 2013, after swallowing half a gram of 91% pure MDMA powder in the city's Hinksey Park. "Martha wanted to get high, she didn't want to die," said Ms Cockburn.[/QUOTE] Source: [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-27811553[/URL] Interesting and surprising considering the majority of those who lose someone to drug related stuff seem to turn full prohibitionist drug warrior...

That seems totally backwards to what typical people would do

She probably realises that if her daughter wanted to do drugs she'd do them regardless of her mothers opinion on the matter, and would get them one way or another and thus if she could have got it from somewhere that is unlikely to cut it with weird shit like baby powder or whatever that she'd stand a better chance of not dying.

500 mg is a shitload of MDMA to take at once, especially if you've never done it before and are a little 15 yr old. This isn't a problem with legalisation, more a problem of not educating kids enough about drugs. I don't think ecstacy should be legalised, just properly explained. All this could be avoided if she was properly informed. (by school, parents, ...)

[QUOTE=bravehat;45084445]She probably realises that if her daughter wanted to do drugs she'd do them regardless of her mothers opinion on the matter, and would get them one way or another and thus if she could have got it from somewhere that is unlikely to cut it with weird shit like baby powder or whatever that she'd stand a better chance of not dying.[/QUOTE] In her case the product was a lot purer than she was perhaps aware it seems but regulation could help with that as well as preventing adulteration.

[QUOTE=bravehat;45084445]She probably realises that if her daughter wanted to do drugs she'd do them regardless of her mothers opinion on the matter, and would get them one way or another and thus if she could have got it from somewhere that is unlikely to cut it with weird shit like baby powder or whatever that she'd stand a better chance of not dying.[/QUOTE] 95% purity isn't cut at all, she just took too much. Imagine if teens were shown stuff like erowid or pillreport. I think that would make it so there are less OD's and more people knowing the risks. Also, she was 15 and I doubt anyone would want drug laws so flexible 15 yr olds can buy it.

[QUOTE=rider695;45084497]500 mg is a shitload of MDMA to take at once, especially if you've never done it before and are a little 15 yr old. This isn't a problem with legalisation, more a problem of not educating kids enough about drugs. I don't think ecstacy should be legalised, just properly explained. All this could be avoided if she was properly informed. (by school, parents, ...)[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? Educate folk all you want mate, but at the end of the day if you're leaving the supply of those materials in the hands of spurious individuals then there's more you can do to help people. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=rider695;45084527]95% purity isn't cut at all, she just took too much. Imagine if teens were shown stuff like erowid or pillreport. I think that would make it so there are less OD's and more people knowing the risks. Also, she was 15 and I doubt anyone would want drug laws so flexible 15 yr olds can buy it.[/QUOTE] If you have a legalised and regulated system it's easier to keep track of what's happening with it, than it is to try and track the clandestine drug trade.

The netherlands have a system so you can test your MDMA for it's purity and if you do, they don't make a big fuss about it. Sounds perfect for cases like this. [B][U]Edit:[/U][/B] Bye automerge apparently [QUOTE]If you have a legalised and regulated system it's easier to keep track of what's happening with it, than it is to try and track the clandestine drug trade.[/QUOTE] And how do you think 15 yr olds would get their MDMA? Through clandestine drug trade, not any legal means. Even if the people who sell it to them buy it legally, what's gonna stop em from cutting it up with something else? And then you got the same unreliable product all over again, so legislation won't fix a fucking thing for people who can't get it legally.

Exactly with the black market as the primary supplier a lot of avoidable problems will remain. Leaving things as they are is the equivalent of sweeping it under the carpet. Being able to test purity is one thing but actually regulating supply could be far more effective.

[QUOTE=rider695;45084543]The netherlands have a system so you can test your MDMA for it's purity and if you do, they don't make a big fuss about it. Sounds perfect for cases like this.[/QUOTE] Yeah and a better idea would be going into a pharmacy and buying it from trustworthy pharmacists who know what they're doing. Seriously, how is there even any debate here, how can you imagine that keeping the trade illegal and giving folk an easy way to test it which not everyone is gonna do, is better than literally just manufacturing clean chemical compounds in a sterile environment and effectively sold in doses.

91% sounds really good. I'm not sure what the average purity would be, but all the MDMA I've had in the past year or so has been really nice; nice clean buzz and crucially virtually no comedown.

too bad legalization really wouldn't have changed this situation. any legalization would never let a 15 year old do drugs to begin with, so she'd still be buying it from back alley sources which brings you back to square one

[QUOTE=bravehat;45084562]Yeah and a better idea would be going into a pharmacy and buying it from trustworthy pharmacists who know what they're doing. Seriously, how is there even any debate here, how can you imagine that keeping the trade illegal and giving folk an easy way to test it which not everyone is gonna do, is better than literally just manufacturing clean chemical compounds in a sterile environment and effectively sold in doses.[/QUOTE] I'm not against legalisation, I'm saying it wouldn't make a difference for a 15 year old who would have to get it illegally anyway as the mother is saying in this article. I never said it wouldn't be safer for people who can get it legally. Don't get me wrong, I'm for legalisation and legislation, but the argument the mother uses makes no sense because she'd have gotten it illegally anyway.

Thinking about it, the first time I took MDMA I basically swallowed half a gram (probably closer to 3.5-4g) in 15 minutes. I buzzed so hard didn't sleep at all and had work the next day

[QUOTE=rider695;45084497]I don't think ecstacy should be legalised, just properly explained. All this could be avoided if she was properly informed. (by school, parents, ...)[/QUOTE] Agreed. I'm sure if we where taught about drug safety like it was a sex ed class it could potentially save a lot of lives i.e. Weed is the safest drug, but can still pose risks and they are ... You should take no more than -this- amount of [drug] at any time ... If you feel any ill effects from taking [drug] this is what you should do ... ETC

[QUOTE=Sableye;45084604]too bad legalization really wouldn't have changed this situation. any legalization would never let a 15 year old do drugs to begin with, so she'd still be buying it from back alley sources which brings you back to square one[/QUOTE] When I was 15 I got all my alcohol from sketchy drug dealers in the alleyway, not older siblings or friends or anything. Yup.

[QUOTE=bravehat;45084562]Yeah and a better idea would be going into a pharmacy and buying it from trustworthy pharmacists who know what they're doing. Seriously, how is there even any debate here, how can you imagine that keeping the trade illegal and giving folk an easy way to test it which not everyone is gonna do, is better than literally just manufacturing clean chemical compounds in a sterile environment and effectively sold in doses.[/QUOTE] I'm not against legalisation, but not for it either since it's a 2 way street. Legalisation means better product, but more shit happening since people can still get problems even if it's the right dose (f.e. people who have existing undiagnosed heart conditions). The only way to counter that is by making it extremely difficult to get it legally because people would have to go through a full physical check-up. People like the girl in the article who "just wanna get high" aren't gonna do a full physical check-up to get MDMA, they'll go get it on the corner of their block or in the alley next to the club where nobody asks any questions. And I don't doubt that people who could get it legally would still do the same.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45084642]When I was 15 I got all my alcohol from sketchy drug dealers in the alleyway, not older siblings or friends or anything. Yup.[/QUOTE] Yeah... This so much. If you guys really think that legalizing and regulating won't have some positive effect on the quality/purity of stuff that people are getting even if they are under the legal age, you're dense. "I'm not old enough to buy this" doesn't instantly translate to "better buy it from sketchy randoms", it usually translates to "who do I/my friends know who is old enough to go to the store for me". Have you guys never had someone else buy you cigs or alcohol before?

I once took just over half a gram and I was 'okay.' :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Sableye;45084604]too bad legalization really wouldn't have changed this situation. any legalization would never let a 15 year old do drugs to begin with, so she'd still be buying it from back alley sources which brings you back to square one[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be any different than buying alcohol underage. Get a friend who's 21 to buy it for you, rather than a friend who's connected to some sketchy dealer who's connected to a sketchy manufacturer somewhere down the line. We wouldn't have this problem if it were legal.

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;45084805]Yeah... This so much. If you guys really think that legalizing and regulating won't have some positive effect on the quality/purity of stuff that people are getting even if they are under the legal age, you're dense. "I'm not old enough to buy this" doesn't instantly translate to "better buy it from sketchy randoms", it usually translates to "who do I/my friends know who is old enough to go to the store for me". Have you guys never had someone else buy you cigs or alcohol before?[/QUOTE] The problem is that MDMA is alot more harmful then cigs and alot less accepted then alcohol. They couldn't give it away to everyone over an age limit. And even if they could, they'd have to be real fucking sure it's in limited quantities and not enough to resell and make big profits. So why would anyone go to all that trouble to get his friend MDMA and have to risk a jail sentence for selling? The only people (maybe a few exceptions) who would go through all that trouble are people like the meth cooks who send delivery boys to different pharmacies to get cough medicine. And they sure as hell will cut it up. So yeah, you're right, it will have a positive effect on 1/500 of the people who are underaged or not able to buy legally who get it like that, while you're opening up a big fucking gap in the fence for people wanting to make or sell XTC/MDMA

[QUOTE=rider695;45084943]The problem is that MDMA is alot more harmful then cigs and alot less accepted then alcohol. They couldn't give it away to everyone over an age limit. And even if they could, they'd have to be real fucking sure it's in limited quantities and not enough to resell and make big profits. So why would anyone go to all that trouble to get his friend MDMA and have to risk a jail sentence for selling? The only people (maybe a few exceptions) who would go through all that trouble are people like the meth cooks who send delivery boys to different pharmacies to get cough medicine. And they sure as hell will cut it up. So yeah, you're right, it will have a positive effect on 1/500 of the people who are underaged or not able to buy legally who get it like that, while you're opening up a big fucking gap in the fence for people wanting to make or sell XTC/MDMA[/QUOTE] MDMA is a lot safer than you make it sound and keeping things in a black market is not a good idea. At all.

[QUOTE=Satansick;45084869]I once took just over half a gram and I was 'okay.' :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] street drugs are [I]always[/I] at lower purity. pretty sure that caused the problem here. i hear people taking 100-200mg of MDMA as a "standard" dose these days, even redosing later in the night, when in reality 100mg is quite a bit if you're taking pure M. i've read a couple of trip reports on erowid where people synthesize high-quality MDMA themselves and 80-100mg seems to be enough for a night. same shit for people homebaking heroin and cleaning their coke - the purity jumps up and the dose necessary plummets. purity is so fucked these days that people are always taking more than they should, when they get their hands on a batch of something proper, they're putting themselves at risk of overdose. wouldn't happen if drugs were regulated and proper education for recreational use was given, yeah.

[QUOTE=rider695;45084943]The problem is that MDMA is alot more harmful then cigs and alot less accepted then alcohol.[/QUOTE] In what way is MDMA "a lot more harmful" than cigarettes?

All things considered, the legalisation of MDMA is probably a good thing. People knowing more about it, dosage, getting is from trusted chemical manufacturers. And with all that in mind, people probably won't want to get it from untrusted sources, meaning less money in circulation on the black market, and all that lovely stuff.

Eliminate a black market and create regulations and require government issued photo-IDs? Naw, how will kids get their drugs?

Jesus fuck that is a lot of MDMA for someone who is probably no more than 50kg.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45084998]MDMA is a lot safer than you make it sound and keeping things in a black market is not a good idea. At all.[/QUOTE] I am using worst case scenario here to make my point, yeah. If they legalise it and make it about as easy to get as alcohol, it would cause more bad then good imo. It's not just death to think about when legalising something, MDMA can have alot more unpredictable results (jaw clenching, overheating, psychological effects) then alcohol/smokes and may not get you to the point you wanna be with the dose you can legally get. Legalising it is good if they find a good balance between simplicity of getting it and safety, but that's almost impossible with MDMA. MDMA can only be used in a recreational way, so why would they legalise it with the (possible) consequences? While education (what I was suggesting) about drugs has nothing but positive effects and will inform people of their dangers. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45085048]In what way is MDMA "a lot more harmful" than cigarettes?[/QUOTE] Not thinking long-term here, think short-term.

[QUOTE=rider695;45085281]I am using worst case scenario here to make my point, yeah. If they legalise it and make it about as easy to get as alcohol, it would cause more bad then good imo. It's not just death to think about when legalising something, MDMA can have alot more unpredictable results (jaw clenching, overheating, psychological effects) then alcohol/smokes and may not get you to the point you wanna be with the dose you can legally get. Legalising it is good if they find a good balance between simplicity of getting it and safety, but that's almost impossible with MDMA. MDMA can only be used in a recreational way, so why would they legalise it with the (possible) consequences? While education (what I was suggesting) about drugs has nothing but positive effects and will inform people of their dangers. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] Not thinking long-term here, think short-term.[/QUOTE] So having alcohol legal is fine, but MDMA would be markedly worse in every way? I don't think so.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45085319]So having alcohol legal is fine, but MDMA would be markedly worse in every way? I don't think so.[/QUOTE] I do. Let's take the DD users as example. It'd be perfectly fine if they can get it legally since most of them know what they're doing, how much they should do, they do it as safe as possible and have done some research (as far as I checked out the subforum). Now take the average 18 (or whatever the drinking age is where you live) year old guy/girl who goes to a bar and gets himself a drink. They drink too much because they lose track of time, are drinking with people who can handle their liquor better or any other reason. Most of them just stumble around, vomit and wake up with a hangover the next day. But you do have those that take it beyond that and get to go on an ambulance ride. Now imagine you could just get MDMA from a local pharmacy. You go out and you have the people who know their limits, those who take it a bit too far, and those who get completely fucked. The difference is that with MDMA you can get alot more fucked up alot quicker then with alcohol. When you go overboard with MDMA it's alot harder to fix then just vomiting and sleeping it off. I'm speaking of personal experience in doing mdma XTC about 4 times and having to watch 2 friends who took too much (neither of them went to the ER or something like that) [B][U]EDIT:[/U][/B] So what I'm trying to say is, i'm okay with mdma being correctly legalised and regulated. I just don't think that's possible.