• European watchdog accuses Britain of shameful rhetoric on migrants.
    37 replies, posted
[quote=The Guardian]The debate over immigration in Britain has taken a worrying turn and is fuelling stereotypes and hostility towards migrants, Europe's human rights watchdog has warned. Nils Muiznieks, the Council of Europe's human rights commissioner, has said it is simply unacceptable to treat Bulgarian and Romanian citizens like a scourge and says it is time to blow the whistle on such shameful rhetoric. He also warned that British government moves to restrict the access of new European migrants to social security, housing and social security, will only increase their social exclusion, fuel anti-immigration rhetoric and create even more social problems in the long run. Muiznieks told the Guardian: "The UK debate has taken a worrying turn as it depicts lower-skilled migrants as dangerous foreigners coming to steal jobs, lower salaries and spoil the health system.[/quote] [img]http://peterbaxterafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/no_irish.jpg[/img] Howlongtogodwinsauce: [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/29/eu-watchdog-britain-shameful-rhetoric-migrants[/url] Sometimes I get so disgusted at how little we've come in over half a century I can barely finish my fish and chips. also, how long to Butt29845732whatshisface?
Bloody 'ell.
I believe this is mostly down to the gutter press tabloids, they've printed more than their fair share about immigrants.
[QUOTE=Genericenemy;40094865]I believe this is mostly down to the gutter press tabloids, they've printed more than their fair share about immigrants.[/QUOTE] Its also a shame they have the largest readership - by far. They only pander to what people want to read.
[QUOTE=Genericenemy;40094865]I believe this is mostly down to the gutter press tabloids, they've printed more than their fair share about immigrants.[/QUOTE] Not really, this is the kind of shit the Conservatives and UKIP/BNP engage in wholesale.
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9959813/Britain-cant-afford-this-level-of-immigration.html[/url] I don't see anything wrong with what is said here, can someone tell me what I am missing?
More european oppression of British Culture
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40094890]Its also a shame they have the largest readership - by far. They only pander to what people want to read.[/QUOTE] They also don't give a shit about what effect what they are writing will have on people, like all these articles on these disabled "fakers" and "Scroungers". I think I read something lately that disability hate crime is going up, I wonder why.
[QUOTE=Riutet;40094957][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9959813/Britain-cant-afford-this-level-of-immigration.html[/url] I don't see anything wrong with what is said here, can someone tell me what I am missing?[/QUOTE] The same reason why most people didn't see anything wrong with invading Iraq. Its easy to make boogiemen over things that don't actually exist, while still sounding rational. Take this for example: [quote]Our need for highly skilled migrants to generate economic growth, however, is not to be confused with mass immigration. Most migrants who come to the UK to work take low-skilled jobs, as we saw following the earlier wave of Eastern European migrants. With one million 18- to 24-year-olds out of work, allowing this to continue does not make sense, quite apart from the increasing pressure on our infrastructure.[/quote] Britain is obsessed with making the distinction between 'desirable' migrants and 'undesirable masses'. While completely ignoring that economic studies on the A8 immigration from Eastern Europe actually created more jobs than they took, and gave our economy a lot more money and activity than it would have had otherwise.
Oh boy I can't wait for the front page of the Mail on Sunday now
Hasn't taken a worrying turn in my view, there are definitely are problems with immigration.
[QUOTE=Cats meow;40095009]Hasn't taken a worrying turn in my view, there are definitely are problems with immigration.[/QUOTE] Yes like having to sit next to them on buses.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40094983]The same reason why most people didn't see anything wrong with invading Iraq. Its easy to make boogiemen over things that don't actually exist, while still sounding rational.[/QUOTE] But the claim of the existence of WMDs in Iraq was fictitious, it was a fabrication that did not have anything to back it up other than false witness. In that article they provide some statistics, then projections based on those statistics, are they unreasonable not to be worried considering what is projected?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40095015]Yes like having to sit next to them on buses.[/QUOTE] Oh man, this just reminds me how idiots I went to school with keep sharing those anti-immigrant things about them "stealing our benefits hurr durr" and everyone's all circle-jerking about it, and then when you comment and talk about why they're wrong, they just go quiet.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40094983]economic studies on the A8 immigration from Eastern Europe[/QUOTE] Can you point me towards one of those studies?
[QUOTE=Riutet;40095028]But the claim of the existence of WMDs in Iraq was fictitious, it was a fabrication that did not have anything to back it up other than false witness. In that article they provide some statistics, then projections based on those statistics, are they unreasonable not to be worried considering what is projected?[/QUOTE] The reports on Iraq also gave false statistics and projections. My favourite one was "deployable within 45 minutes". [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-139703/Just-45-minutes-attack.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Cats meow;40095009]Hasn't taken a worrying turn in my view, there are definitely are problems with immigration.[/QUOTE] Such as?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40095045]The reports on Iraq also gave false statistics and projections. My favourite one was "deployable within 45 minutes". [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-139703/Just-45-minutes-attack.html[/url][/QUOTE] "the document, based on the work of the Joint Intelligence Committee at the heart of the British intelligence machine" Isn't there a difference between the source of those statistics and the source of these statistics though. Aren't the people who collect these statistics, I think it's the office for national statistics and someone else, aren't they largely impartial? Did the people in that article fabricate those statistics to suit their agenda as was the case for the justification of the invasion of Iraq, or are they making analysis of information that they themselves did not collect? The problem I see is that they cite no source for the estimate, and thus we can't gather whether the person making the estimate was correct in the methodology he has applied to the statistics, that is the key failing of that article, but assuming the information is correct and the estimate is correct, are their projections without merit?
Well, duh. Cameron and the Tories got voted into power largely by demonizing and scapegoating immigrants to capitalize on, frankly, the racist portions of the UK voting demographic.
£10 says this watchdog hasn't read the daily mail. he obviously needs his daily dose of [i]true facts[/i]
nodachi are you telling me that hostility and institutional racism against immigrants is causing social isolation and crime among immigrant communities, which is dangerous because just like all other top economic tier nations the country relies more and more on immigrant labour?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;40094808] Howlongtogodwinsauce: [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/29/eu-watchdog-britain-shameful-rhetoric-migrants[/url] Sometimes I get so disgusted at how little we've come in over half a century I can barely finish my fish and chips. also, how long to Butt29845732whatshisface?[/QUOTE] Right here :smile: ready to ask you questions you get upset about and have no answers for! Firstly to the article: [quote]He also warned that British government moves to restrict the access of new European migrants to social security, housing and social security, will only increase their social exclusion, fuel anti-immigration rhetoric and create even more social problems in the long run.[/quote] I would have thought that exclusion from "social security, housing and social security" (what) would have quashed any form of myth that Polish people are workshy and benefit seekers. How will immigrants not being able to claim benefits create social exclusion or anti-immigration rhetoric if that's what people have a problem with? [quote]Muiznieks told the Guardian: "The UK debate has taken a worrying turn as it depicts lower-skilled migrants as dangerous foreigners coming to steal jobs, lower salaries and spoil the health system.[/quote] No. The UK debate is in the worrying state that no one knows the facts or figures for when Bulgarians and Romanians are granted free access to the UK come next year. Especially considering the following: 1. 1 million Polish people turned up to the UK, when only several thousand were expected 2. GDP per capita in Poland is twice that of Romania and Bulgaria 3. Romania and Bulgaria combined have 70% of the population of Poland 4. 42% of Bulgarians wish to leave the country either permanently or to work abroad What's to say that another million won't come? [QUOTE=Craigewan;40094895]Not really, this is the kind of shit the Conservatives and UKIP/BNP engage in wholesale.[/QUOTE] Except it's not. The Conservatives have done nothing towards halting immigration besides insisting upon greater checks for foreign "Students", they still refuse to release any figures or estimates for Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants. Nice try to relate UKIP and the BNP. I'll give you the difference between the two because you clearly have no idea. BNP: - Would completely halt all immigration into the country and begin a repatriation scheme of immigrants back to their home countries. UKIP: - Would implement a 5 year freeze on permanent immigration with the long term goal of bringing immigration to around 50,000 a year. [QUOTE=NoDachi;40094983]Britain is obsessed with making the distinction between 'desirable' migrants and 'undesirable masses'. While completely ignoring that economic studies on the A8 immigration from Eastern Europe actually created more jobs than they took, and gave our economy a lot more money and activity than it would have had otherwise.[/QUOTE] Sorry, are we not allowed to distinguish between who we would like to let in and who we would not? It's indisputable that A8 immigrants have high job uptake rates, but a million people came - could we handle another 100,000? another 500,000? even a million more people? Also could you please link some of these studies? Every time a immigration related thread comes up you always cite 'economics', I ask you to provide the studies and you never do. [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;40095129]Well, duh. Cameron and the Tories got voted into power largely by demonizing and scapegoating immigrants to capitalize on, frankly, the racist portions of the UK voting demographic.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, that was the entire 2010 manifesto if I recall? Here's a snippet: [quote]Immigration has enriched our nation over the years and we want to attract the brightest and the best people who can make a real difference to our economic growth. but immigration today is too high and needs to be reduced. We do not need to attract people to do jobs that could be carried out by British citizens, given the right training and support. So we will take steps to take net migration back to the levels of the 1990s – tens of thousands a year, not hundreds of thousands[/quote] Did you know the word 'immigration' is only put 4 times in a document with 28,000 words. Racist portions of the UK voting demographic? Are you saying that 36.1% of the population are racist because they voted Conservative? Wow. Asking questions about immigration should not be frowned upon or discouraged, in fact I think it's as ignorant as the Daily Mail articles you love to hate. You all bitch about tabloids perpetuating immigrant myths, yet you seem to also refuse any form of [I]actual[/I] debate about immigration with genuine facts, be they positive or negative. I'm all ears for pro-immigration, but I'm yet to hear something of substance.
[QUOTE=butt2089;40099647]Right here :smile: ready to ask you questions you get upset about and have no answers for! Firstly to the article: I would have thought that exclusion from "social security, housing and social security" (what) would have quashed any form of myth that Polish people are workshy and benefit seekers. How will immigrants not being able to claim benefits create social exclusion or anti-immigration rhetoric if that's what people have a problem with? No. The UK debate is in the worrying state that no one knows the facts or figures for when Bulgarians and Romanians are granted free access to the UK come next year. Especially considering the following: 1. 1 million Polish people turned up to the UK, when only several thousand were expected 2. GDP per capita in Poland is twice that of Romania and Bulgaria 3. Romania and Bulgaria combined have 70% of the population of Poland 4. 42% of Bulgarians wish to leave the country either permanently or to work abroad What's to say that another million won't come? Except it's not. The Conservatives have done nothing towards halting immigration besides insisting upon greater checks for foreign "Students", they still refuse to release any figures or estimates for Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants. Nice try to relate UKIP and the BNP. I'll give you the difference between the two because you clearly have no idea. BNP: - Would completely halt all immigration into the country and begin a repatriation scheme of immigrants back to their home countries. UKIP: - Would implement a 5 year freeze on permanent immigration with the long term goal of bringing immigration to around 50,000 a year. Sorry, are we not allowed to distinguish between who we would like to let in and who we would not? It's indisputable that A8 immigrants have high job uptake rates, but a million people came - could we handle another 100,000? another 500,000? even a million more people? Also could you please link some of these studies? Every time a immigration related thread comes up you always cite 'economics', I ask you to provide the studies and you never do. Oh yes, that was the entire 2010 manifesto if I recall? Here's a snippet: Did you know the word 'immigration' is only put 4 times in a document with 28,000 words. Racist portions of the UK voting demographic? Are you saying that 36.1% of the population are racist because they voted Conservative? Wow. Asking questions about immigration should not be frowned upon or discouraged, in fact I think it's as ignorant as the Daily Mail articles you love to hate. You all bitch about tabloids perpetuating immigrant myths, yet you seem to also refuse any form of [I]actual[/I] debate about immigration with genuine facts, be they positive or negative. I'm all ears for pro-immigration, but I'm yet to hear something of substance.[/QUOTE] I only wanted to say that you need sources in a debate so until you show some evidence for your claims, well most of it can be assumed to be hyperbole.
[QUOTE=Earthen;40099782]I only wanted to say that you need sources in a debate so until you show some evidence for your claims, well most of it can be assumed to be hyperbole.[/QUOTE] Fuck you man, it's like I [B][U]ALWAYS[/U][/B] provide sources, but I stopped considering no one else bothers to. Here it goes.. [QUOTE=butt2089;40099647]Right here :smile: ready to ask you questions you get upset about and have no answers for! Firstly to the article: I would have thought that exclusion from "social security, housing and social security" (what) would have quashed any form of myth that Polish people are workshy and benefit seekers. How will immigrants not being able to claim benefits create social exclusion or anti-immigration rhetoric if that's what people have a problem with? No. The UK debate is in the worrying state that no one knows the facts or figures for when Bulgarians and Romanians are granted free access to the UK come next year. Especially considering the following: 1. 1 million Polish people turned up to the UK, when only several thousand were expected [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_migration_to_the_United_Kingdom]Polish migration to UK[/url] 2. GDP per capita in Poland is twice that of Romania and Bulgaria [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland]Poland[/url], [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania]Romania[/url] and [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria]Bulgaria[/url] 3. Romania and Bulgaria combined have 70% of the population of Poland - see above under population 4. 42% of Bulgarians wish to leave the country either permanently or to work abroad [url=http://www.eurotopics.net/en/home/presseschau/archiv/results/archiv_article/ARTICLE112236-Bulgaria-s-future-is-leaving-the-country]Here[/url] and [url=http://sofiaglobe.com/2012/10/04/number-of-bulgarians-wanting-to-emigrate-has-risen-poll/]Here[/url] What's to say that another million won't come? Except it's not. The Conservatives have done nothing towards halting immigration besides insisting upon [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15544453]greater checks[/url] for foreign "Students", they still refuse to release any figures or estimates for Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants. Nice try to relate UKIP and the BNP. I'll give you the difference between the two because you clearly have no idea. [url=http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies/immigration]BNP[/url]: - Would completely halt all immigration into the country and begin a repatriation scheme of immigrants back to their home countries. [url=http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2994-immigration-and-asylum-ukip-policy]UKIP[/url]: - Would implement a 5 year freeze on permanent immigration with the long term goal of bringing immigration to around 50,000 a year. Sorry, are we not allowed to distinguish between who we would like to let in and who we would not? It's indisputable that A8 immigrants have high job uptake rates, but a million people came - could we handle another 100,000? another 500,000? even a million more people? Also could you please link some of these studies? Every time a immigration related thread comes up you always cite 'economics', I ask you to provide the studies and you never do. Oh yes, that was the entire [url=http://www.conservatives.com/~/media/Files/Activist%20Centre/Press%20and%20Policy/Manifestos/Manifesto2010]2010 manifesto[/url] if I recall? Here's a snippet: Did you know the word 'immigration' is only put 4 times in a document with 28,000 words. Racist portions of the UK voting demographic? Are you saying that [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010]36.1%[/url] of the population are racist because they voted Conservative? Wow. Asking questions about immigration should not be frowned upon or discouraged, in fact I think it's as ignorant as the Daily Mail articles you love to hate. You all bitch about tabloids perpetuating immigrant myths, yet you seem to also refuse any form of [I]actual[/I] debate about immigration with genuine facts, be they positive or negative. I'm all ears for pro-immigration, but I'm yet to hear something of substance.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=butt2089;40099917]Fuck you man, it's like I [B][U]ALWAYS[/U][/B] provide sources, but I stopped considering no one else bothers to. Here it goes..[/QUOTE] If they don't, then don't reply to them. Anyone who can't prove something should back down.
immigration is bad guys i have this source that says sometimes black people are unemployed oh god get them out of my sight
[QUOTE=Bobie;40100989]immigration is bad guys i have this source that says sometimes black people are unemployed oh god get them out of my sight[/QUOTE] I don't really understand how you are trying to contribute to the thread nor do I see anyone relating "black people" to being "unemployable" stated in this discussion. I just don't think it's right to try and downplay someones argument you don't agree with by using a straw man.
I was barred entrance from a shop in London once because I'm Scottish. Some old lady chased me out of the shop, shouting some very Anti-Semitic terms and calling me a "Damn fookin' jock dragging Britain down, they shud a rounded oop tha bunsh of yas and shot 'em all!"
Some thread music from one of our political parties for you all: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9nbg23hNs[/media]
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;40101358]I was barred entrance from a shop in London once because I'm Scottish. Some old lady chased me out of the shop, shouting some very Anti-Semitic terms and calling me a "Damn fookin' jock dragging Britain down, they shud a rounded oop tha bunsh of yas and shot 'em all!"[/QUOTE] You should have enlightened her with the many inventions the Scottish have invented to benefit the world. Such as girders' and irn-bru as one example. Maybe then she wouldn't have been such a cunt.
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