Memorial Day and soldier worship: Should we glorify the military and war? - General

I feel like this is a very pertinent topic, given the holiday. This is really more of an op-ed than a debate topic, but I invite you to share your thoughts as well. I live on Oahu, which has a huge military presence. Memorial Day is a huge thing here, as we have all 3 branches of the armed forces here. Servicemen and women are held in high regard pretty much anywhere they go, pretty much every place has some form of miltary discount or perk. People go visit the veteran's cemetery, old war buddies get together and talk story, and we're constantly reminded to thank our vets and active duty soldiers for fighting for freedom. But, should we really? Don't get me wrong, I hold any who willingly puts their ass o nthe line with the very real expectation they may not come home in high regard. But it is hard these not to think of the nation's military as little more than armed thugs who fight not for the liberty and freedom of all, but to assert the country's percieved dominance and fight for the interests of what you might consider the "1%" - the ruling elite, plutocrats who see the world in terms of money and power. Should we really be glorifying soldiers whose entire military career likely consist of "liberating" a country that at best doesn't want our help, and at worst outright despise us? Should we really be glorifying destabilizing entire nations just to shove our ideals of "democracy" down their throats? And should we really be teaching kids that senseless killing and pillaging is ok, and even morally justifiable so long as it's done by "the good guys"? I feel like we shouldn't, not our past wars and soldiers, and definitely not our present ones either. Don't misunderstand me - I am not saying the dead don't deserve respect, if anything they deserve our condolences for having had their lives so senselessly wasted, nor am I saying present soldiers do not deserve respect for putting their lives at risk. War that secures peace is just as wasteful and senseless as war that leads to tyranny and oppression, and modern war even moreso, where it has become an industry where the goal is to snuff out human lives for profit and natural resources. Why should we glorify that? The soldiers that fight in those wars do so for many of their own reasons, but the sad reality is that they ultimately serve the interests of the state and their benefactors - interests tha trarely coincide with the interests of the people they swore to protect. Are they really heroes when their drones fire missiles upon civilians mistaken for insurgents, or when one or more soldiers decides to kill an innocent family because 'they're just brown people, no one is going to care'? Why should we celebrate those people along with the ones that actually are heroes - the ones who disregard their own safety t osave the squad, or the ones that sacrifice themselves so others might live and make it back home? Again, I'm not saying to be an ass and disrespect those in uniform or start shit by saying 'your grandfather fought fpr nothing in WW2!", all I ask is that today, think about what and who you are celebrating, and for what reasons.

It's not about glorifying, at least not remembrance day. It's about honoring the men and women who died in service everywhere. In a perfect world we wouldn't need it.

What G Strogg and also, you need to remember that politians are responcable at times for the military and their actions.

[QUOTE=-n3o-;42829970]What G Strogg and also, you need to remember that politians are responcable at times for the military and their actions.[/QUOTE] Not entirely, I mean there is some degree of freedom to what a soldier does. Take that one American solder who killed like 20 Afghan citizens. Certainly not what any politician had in mind.

"glorifying the military and war" never really came into my mind when remembering people who fought and died for others. I can say though that a lot of people just go through the motions and it kinda shows. I feel like shit when a lot of times they're thrown up on pedestals, given a little clap, and people just say "thanks for your service" and awkwardly walk away with some cheesy music playing in the background. that pisses me off. this is a good holiday, but some people are just arrogant/ignorant as fuck and use it in all the wrong ways, particularly politicians basically, people should go up and just fucking talk to vets like a normal human being instead of just saying "god bless america" and "thanks for your service." I feel like those phrases have practically lost their meaning, I think a lot of them appreciate the sentiment but a lot of people treat them too much like objects.

I don't know how the ceremonies and thought works in the US but in Canada Remembrance Day is a day to reflect on the death and destruction, and the futility, of war. Yeah there's the whole "Remember those who died for your freedom" thing but I think the general tone is one of, I dunno, regret? Or sorrow, or whatever. But it's hardly glorifying war or the honour that goes with it. In general, yes, the military is unjustly glorified, but not, I think, on November 11th.

[QUOTE=Kuro.;42828480] Are they really heroes when their drones fire missiles upon civilians mistaken for insurgents[/QUOTE] You have to remember that the people who fire the drones and pilot the Apache helicopters have no intention of harming civilians. If you've ever seen one of those videos of Apache attacks on insurgents you even hear them discussing when the best time to attack is to reduce collateral damage and civilian injuries/casualties - which they tend to take pretty seriously. [QUOTE=Kuro.;42828480] or when one or more soldiers decides to kill an innocent family because 'they're just brown people, no one is going to care'?"[/QUOTE] This happens very rarely, and even when it does happen, the reason for it just isn't because "they're brown people so who cares." Like that guy in the Army who killed 20 innocent Afghans. He didn't do it just for the fun, he was diagnosed with PTSD and yet the army (stupidly) still deployed him and he just lost it. You can't have a war without civilian casualties, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. I mean, WWII alone had roughly 27 million civilian deaths, and we were fighting a [I]uniformed[/I] enemy. We're not fighting a uniformed enemy right now in Afghanistan, we're fighting insurgents who blend into the normal population which makes the risk of accidents for mistaking normal civilians for insurgents even greater.

I know a former marine, and he told me that one of the rules they had to follow went something along the lines of "If your superior gives an order that's fucked up, then don't do it." Like firing on innocent civilians. Only a sociopath would follow an order like that, and his comrades keep guys like him in check. (Most of the time) He also had stories about his squad saving countless civilian lives from all kinds of criminals and terrorists, not just the ones going against American interests specifically. I think of him as a hero, no matter what fucked up things other soldiers in our military do, and he deserves all the respect I can give for putting his life on the line to help others. It's not really glorifying the acts of violence, but the bravery needed to risk your life for others. Like how you'd respect a fire fighter or a (good, not corrupt) police officer.

I highly disagree with the concept of modern military; fighting for our countries would've been an accurate, arguably honourable sentiment 70 years ago but now all that comes to mind is the number of innocents killed through the US drone strikes. We hold Rememberance Day to remind ourselves of the atrocities of the first and second world wars so that we do not repeat them; we failed. Conflict and violence, and anyone lending themselves to it should never be glorified.

Well it's kinda hard to not glorify war and only glorify the soldiers fighting it. I'll still thank people for their service, but deep down I feel like it's kinda weird to thank someone for doing something that's really risky when it hasn't really brought any good change to anyone. Maybe this is just because I'm a dumb teen who sits around playing games all day, but I can't sympathize with people who willingly conscript into the military (when we haven't been directly attacked by another large force, like Japan and Pearl Harbor, because that's actually fighting to protect our freedoms)

because the more we remember, the less we are to be sheeple and listen to people like bachman who's history text book looks more like a michel bay movie, complete with massive inaccuracies and plot holes that are filled with chants of FOR A'MERICA! whenever i go to war memorials i don't idolize war, they aren't designed to idolize war, they are there to show concrete numbers and forever remind us of the costs of war, and how it is the last thing we as a race, and a nation should do

Hey great question, I'm originally from Oregon but lived in Oahu myself. Anyway I believe the government/military have used patriotism to fit their own agendas and have coupled that with what they have learned from previous wars in order to control the American people. The draft was eliminated causing the people to care less about where we send our troops, after all if u r not worried about being drafted it's not on your mind like it would have been during Vietnam for instance. The troops who are sent overseas these days are all volunteers so they can't complain or raise hell with the same fervor that u saw in the 60's, also the rich and powerful can insure that their kids don't have to go to war. The poor are typically the ones who sign up these days and they don't have the connections to have their voices heard even if they wanted to. I applaud u for your question because it can bring anger and hatred your way from the zealous over propagandized individuals in our society but it's a question I've asked myself. We support the troops with blind faith and in doing so partly support the war,the military knows this and uses it as a battle strategy against us to achieve their dirty objectives. I just wish the troops would come home and stay home but the military has too many interests and to much incentive to go to war.

[QUOTE=Mpurvismattp;43514400]Hey great question, I'm originally from Oregon but lived in Oahu myself. Anyway I believe the government/military have used patriotism to fit their own agendas and have coupled that with what they have learned from previous wars in order to control the American people. The draft was eliminated causing the people to care less about where we send our troops, after all if u r not worried about being drafted it's not on your mind like it would have been during Vietnam for instance. The troops who are sent overseas these days are all volunteers so they can't complain or raise hell with the same fervor that u saw in the 60's, also the rich and powerful can insure that their kids don't have to go to war. The poor are typically the ones who sign up these days and they don't have the connections to have their voices heard even if they wanted to. I applaud u for your question because it can bring anger and hatred your way from the zealous over propagandized individuals in our society but it's a question I've asked myself. We support the troops with blind faith and in doing so partly support the war,the military knows this and uses it as a battle strategy against us to achieve their dirty objectives. I just wish the troops would come home and stay home but the military has too many interests and to much incentive to go to war.[/QUOTE] you've made it incredibly clear you have little to no idea how the military works and what its purpose is

[QUOTE=Mpurvismattp;43514400] I just wish the troops would come home and stay home but the military has too many interests and to much incentive to go to war.[/QUOTE] Please name some of these incentives and interests that the US military wants to go to war so badly for.

Though I hate war I always have deep respect for soldiers who are always in the line of fire and even ready to sacrifice their life for their country.

Seriously? Oil for one. Are u trying to tell me the U.S. doesn't have any interests for war or are u legitimately asking me that question? If u know much about the military and how much we spend on it as a country ( more then all other major developed countries...combined) then u may see a problem there. Not only do u have politicians taking money from major defense contractors, companies like black water, kbr and halliburton which have made billions and billions of dollars off these recent endless wars and continue to do so. These companies have their own private troops, powerful people like Dick Cheney helping them out (not admittedly of course) and plenty of interest in making sure there is plenty of future war (business) to go around for years to come. If u really want to know do some research, check out a documentary called "why we fight". That's a good place to start. And to u Death god, nice name by the way(sarcasm)please explain it me, little vague there chief.

Doing work for corporations? that sure is heroic.

Yes to an extent. We shouldn't glorify it to the point of near worship. But we should honor those who fight, and get injured, or killed in combat. And we need to have some memorial for the loved ones of those lost in the history of Battle.

I agree with you pvt. Martin. It is important to honor those who have fallen and help in whatever way to help those who have lost love ones to cope. I feel that certain wars are necessary (world war two for example) but I also believe that most are not and I seriously question the ones going on right now. I feel that we shouldn't worship soldiers as well and realize they are just people like you or me. There are amazing people who have fought or are fighting and there are total psychopaths out there who have no business representing our country. The issue with me is the problem of going to war for unjust or unnecessary reasons. I think it should be a last resort and something we need to think long and hard about before we decide to go and put so many people lives on the line.

[QUOTE=Mpurvismattp;43597049]I agree with you pvt. Martin. It is important to honor those who have fallen and help in whatever way to help those who have lost love ones to cope. I feel that certain wars are necessary (world war two for example) but I also believe that most are not and I seriously question the ones going on right now. I feel that we shouldn't worship soldiers as well and realize they are just people like you or me. There are amazing people who have fought or are fighting and there are total psychopaths out there who have no business representing our country. The issue with me is the problem of going to war for unjust or unnecessary reasons. I think it should be a last resort and something we need to think long and hard about before we decide to go and put so many people lives on the line.[/QUOTE] What exactly do you mean by "worshiping" soldiers?

I should also mention that I do have respect for soldiers actively giving their lives to do better for the world.

I assume ur asking me that Blayzd since u highlighted my quote (Pvt. Martin mentioned it in his statement above also). I mean we shouldn't put them or the military on a Pedestal or follow them blindly. I have a friend (in the military)who just disappeared for a while and I wondered what had happened to him. He called me the other day and of course i asked where he had went and he told me he had gone AWOL while on leave due to some very disturbing things he had seen and the military showed up at his home and took him away for a few months. I didn't want to pry too much into why he went AWOL but I asked him "was it involving treatment of people?" He said yes and told me he had witnessed men he was stationed with savagely beating Afgans day after day after day and that he felt like they weren't doing any good and he had to get out. I understand that most troops say they fight for their brothers when asked why they keep coming back to Iraq/Afganistan but I really respected him for doing what he thought was right. I don't think he was afraid as much as he didn't believe in the cause and I would hope more troops would do the same thing if they feel they're putting their lives in danger for something of little value in the long run. I understand if they do not (no judgement) I just wonder if they really believe in this cause or if it's a matter of guilt they would feel for leaving their fellow soldiers/friends behind.

This is not the question to ask, for there are hundreds of related and deeper questions. For example, "Is my life more valuable than someone else's? Is it morally right to kill someone to defend myself, or is this just greed? Am I protecting myself because I contribute to the human race as a whole, or for my own purposes? Should I even care about the human race as a whole? Is altruism right or wrong?" Etc, you could go very deep into the realms of philosophy. This post also seems biased, as every nation is in competition with every other nation and always will be until the day the concept of 'nations' no longer exists and we are just one earth. The USA is no better or worse than any other nation when it comes to "imperialism", as the goal of any nation is to empower itself over other nations. But no, war shouldn't be glorified. War is a gritty necessity of our imperfect world, not a game.