Christian bakery under fire for not making cake with logo of activist group - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28206581[/url] [quote][B]A Christian-run bakery that refused a customer's request to make a cake with a slogan supporting gay marriage could face a discrimination case in court.[/B] Ashers Baking Company declined an order from a gay rights activist, asking for cake featuring the Sesame Street puppets, Bert and Ernie. The customer also wanted the cake to feature the logo of a Belfast-based campaign group called "Queerspace". The County Antrim firm could face legal action from the Equality Commission. The watchdog confirmed it is assisting the customer whose order was refused and has written to the baking company on his behalf. The cake was ordered for a civic event in Bangor Castle Town Hall, County Down, to mark International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia. [B] Christian beliefs[/B] The bakery, which was founded in Newtownabbey in 1992, is run by the McArthur family. The directors, who are Christians, operate six shops in Northern Ireland and employ 62 people. The firm's 24-year-old general manager, Daniel McArthur, said marriage in Northern Ireland "still is defined as being a union between one man and one woman" and said his company was taking "a stand". The customer placed the order in Ashers' Belfast branch a number of weeks ago, and it was then passed to their head office. In an online statement, Mr McArthur said: "The directors and myself looked at it and considered it and thought that this order was at odds with our beliefs. "It certainly was at odds with what the Bible teaches, and on the following Monday we rang the customer to let him know that we couldn't take his order." [B] 'Discriminated'[/B] Mr McArthur added that his firm offered the customer a full refund, which was collected shortly after the order was refused. "We thought that was the end of it, but approximately six weeks later we received a letter from the Equality Commission. The Equality Commission's letter said that we had discriminated against the customer on the grounds of his sexual orientation. "It asked us to propose how we would recompense the customer for this discrimination. It also said it would pursue legal proceedings if we didn't respond within a seven-day time period," Mr McArthur said. [B]Legal assistance[/B] The general manager said he was "very surprised" by the watchdog's letter and his firm asked the Christian Institute for advice on how to deal with the case. The institute is supporting the bakery's stance and is now providing legal assistance. Mr McArthur said: "I feel if we don't take a stand on this here case, then how can we stand up against it, further down the line?" The general manager added that it was not the first time his company had refused customers' cake orders. "In the past, we've declined several orders which have contained pornographic images and offensive, foul language." Mr McArthur added: "I would like the outcome of this to be that, any Christians running a business could be allowed to follow their Christian beliefs and principles in the day-to-day running of their business and that they are allowed to make decisions based on that." [B]'Unlawful discrimination'[/B] However, Alliance councillor Andrew Muir - who hosted the civic event for which the cake was ordered - said he fully supported the action taken against the bakery. "Businesses should not be able to pick and choose who they serve," Mr Muir said. "There would not be any debate if the cake had depicted an anti-racism or anti-ageism slogan, nor should it require intervention from the Equality Commission for this cake for Anti-Homophobia Day. "It is ridiculous for this bakery to suggest that they would have to endorse the campaign." The councillor, who hosted the event during his term as mayor of North Down, said another bakery in Bangor stepped in and accepted the cake order. But Mr Muir added: "For Northern Ireland to prosper and overcome our divisions we need a new society where businesses are willing to cater for all, regardless of religious views, political opinion, disability, race, age, sexual orientation, marital status, gender and other backgrounds." Gavin Boyd, a gay rights campaigner with the Rainbow Project in Northern Ireland, also supported the customer's discrimination complaint. "It is because of sexual orientation that the company decided not to print this," Mr Boyd told BBC Radio Ulster. "The law is really clear. You cannot pick and choose which sides of the law apply to you. "If you are a company that is trading out there in the market place and someone comes to you, you can't pick and choose whether or not to fulfil that order based on their sexual orientation," Mr Boyd added. In a statement, the watchdog said: "The Equality Commission for Northern Ireland provides advice and can provide assistance to people who complain to us that they have suffered unlawful discrimination. "In this case the commission has granted assistance to the complainant, and has written to the company concerned on his behalf. "The commission will consider any response before taking further action." Northern Ireland is now the only part of the UK which has not passed a law to introduce same-sex marriage. [/quote]

As much as you might be angry at them, they have a right to refuse service (at least here they would). So they don't want to make your cake, go somewhere else then??? It's not like they're telling you "Ey, you faggot, get out of here before you go on a one way trip to hell" [quote]Mr McArthur added that his firm offered the customer a full refund, which was collected shortly after the order was refused. [/quote] A full refund, and they simply told him "Sir, we don't wish to do your cake". Big whoop. Calm down.

[B]Christian beliefs [/B][QUOTE]"It certainly was at odds with what the Bible teaches, and on the following Monday we rang the customer to let him know that we couldn't take his order."[/QUOTE]

...Oh, not literal fire. That's good to know. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;45326884]As much as you might be angry at them, they have a right to refuse service (at least here they would). So they don't want to make your cake, go somewhere else then??? It's not like they're telling you "Ey, you faggot, get out of here before you go on a one way trip to hell" A full refund, and they simply told him "Sir, we don't wish to do your cake". Big whoop. Calm down.[/QUOTE] As far as I know, any business can refuse service to any client EXCEPT for discriminatory reasons.

[QUOTE=sYnced;45326893][B]Christian beliefs [/B][/QUOTE] It's almost like they chose this specific bakery knowing this would happen.

Eh, people have a right to discriminate and refuse service in private business. Go somewhere else, protest them, refuse to do business with them in the future etc if you want.

oh i thought someone firebombed it or something

I'm not too sure about Ireland's laws, but over here there, the cake shop would probably win. And before everyone gets all uppity, let me explain.... From what I gather from the article, they didn't refuse service based on the customers' sexual orientation, but rather based upon the contents of the order. I could agree with discrimination if they said "we don't make cakes or do business with homosexuals", but that's not the case. The issue is wether or not they can refuse to do a cake based on the message and it's contents, in which case I think they should have every right to do so.

[QUOTE=Coment;45326899] As far as I know, any business can refuse service to any client EXCEPT for discriminatory reasons.[/QUOTE] If I refused to sell you something because you were gay, i'd get in trouble If I refused to sell you something that had a logo that pushed gay rights, I would be fine because I just don't sell that kind of stuff

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;45327075]I'm not too sure about Ireland's laws, but over here there, the cake shop would probably win. And before everyone gets all uppity, let me explain.... From what I gather from the article, they didn't refuse service based on the customers' sexual orientation, but rather based upon the contents of the order. I could agree with discrimination if they said "we don't make cakes or do business with homosexuals", but that's not the case. The issue is wether or not they can refuse to do a cake based on the message and it's contents, in which case I think they should have every right to do so.[/QUOTE] Yeah, if they had ordered a cake that said something non-inflammatory like 'Happy 29th Birthday,Tom' and the order was refused because of the client's sexual orientation, then there would be a case of discrimination, but the cake was designed to be part of a message that the company owners did not agree with, and I feel they have a right to decline.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;45327075]I'm not too sure about Ireland's laws, but over here there, the cake shop would probably win. And before everyone gets all uppity, let me explain.... From what I gather from the article, they didn't refuse service based on the customers' sexual orientation, but rather based upon the contents of the order. I could agree with discrimination if they said "we don't make cakes or do business with homosexuals", but that's not the case. The issue is wether or not they can refuse to do a cake based on the message and it's contents, in which case I think they should have every right to do so.[/QUOTE] It's not the Irish Republics law, it's Northern Irelands, incidentally it's also the only part of the UK where same-sex marriage is not legal.

[QUOTE=download;45327039]Eh, people have a right to discriminate and refuse service in private business. [/QUOTE] Not in Australia they don't. And clearly not in Ireland either.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45326905]It's almost like they chose this specific bakery knowing this would happen.[/QUOTE] They probably didn't know... I didn't know Chik-Fil-A was a Christian company until it was in the news a year or so ago.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;45327138]If I refused to sell you something because you were gay, i'd get in trouble If I refused to sell you something that had a logo that pushed gay rights, I would be fine because I just don't sell that kind of stuff[/QUOTE] back when I worked at an office max (in the print center) some lady came in and asked about some coupon deal we had where you could get 10 large format color prints on cheap paper for a nice discount plus free lamination. The catch was she wanted [i]sixty[/i] 24x36 color photos, to which my boss begrudgingly agreed to even though it was an abuse of the discount and a massive waste of time. He also agreed before we knew what we would be printing, since her stance was that it was for a nonprofit group when she got home and emailed us the files, we quickly found out the 60 giant posters were color photos of scrambled aborted fetus bits and slanderous text. BOY HOWDY. we called her up to say we don't want to do this because it's fucking gore and the printer is out in the middle of public viewing space, but she threatened to sue the company for discrimination somehow. The boss caved and made me stay after hours to print and laminate all that fucking garbage

[QUOTE=DogGunn;45327371]Not in Australia they don't. And clearly not in Ireland either.[/QUOTE] Well they should.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45326905]It's almost like they chose this specific bakery knowing this would happen.[/QUOTE] how were they going to know it was a christian bakery?

just go get it from walmart, they've made adolf hitler cakes for customers before, they don't care

[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;45327762]how were they going to know it was a christian bakery?[/QUOTE] to be fair I know of a pastry shop run by nuns in full garb

Pretty sure a case just like this already happened. [url]http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/1207/Colo.-judge-orders-Christian-baker-to-bake-gay-wedding-cake.-Will-he-say-no-video[/url] Yeah. The ruling ended up that the baker had to make the cake, and legally couldn't turn people away based on religious belief. There was actually a Supreme Court Case a long time back that I think is similar-- [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel_v._United_States[/url] The end ruling was basically this: under the commerce clause, if you're providing a service to the public, you have to provide it to everyone.

These people were definitely trying to cause trouble. The bakery really didnt have a good choice in this. Agree and it enrages the radical christians and disagree this happens. Fucking stupid if you ask me

You would think "No, sorry, but we don't want to do this because we don't want to cause or be involved with the impending shitstorm" would be a satisfying answer to these issues. You aren't declining the request because of discrimination, you are declining because it could be potentially harmful to your business. That sounds perfectly logical to me.

[quote]"In the past, we've declined several orders which have contained pornographic images and offensive, foul language."[/quote] I'm sorry but was the request two men practicing sodomy, or was it Bert and Ernie with the Queer Space Logo they requested for? [t]http://lgbtni.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/queerspace-logo.png[/t] So offensive! The bakery succeeded in wasting the customers time by saying they'd do it then changing their minds after the fact. I'm sure God would forgive them if they made one cake for some gay folks, if they don't believe so then their God isn't as merciful as they claim. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;45326884]As much as you might be angry at them, they have a right to refuse service (at least here they would). So they don't want to make your cake, go somewhere else then??? It's not like they're telling you "Ey, you faggot, get out of here before you go on a one way trip to hell" A full refund, and they simply told him "Sir, we don't wish to do your cake". Big whoop. Calm down.[/QUOTE] I don't see the point in running a for profit business if you're going to turn people away for any reason. Money doesn't discriminate, but people sure do. And they refused service after accepting the request to make the cake as outlined. That's completely disrespectful and a waste of the customers time. If they were on a tight deadline they'd have no way to get a cake in time.

I think a private company should be allowed to refuse a job or service if their refusal is based on the nature of the job or service itself and not the client. That shouldn't be considered discrimination, even if it is something like "we don't support gay rights so we don't want to make that".

If the company were to refuse a job for a hate group would it still be wrong to do so?

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;45328512]I think a private company should be allowed to refuse a job or service if their refusal is based on the nature of the job or service itself and not the client. That shouldn't be considered discrimination, even if it is something like "we don't support gay rights so we don't want to make that".[/QUOTE] What happens if no bakery wants to make the cake?

[img]https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1386/33/1386330358326.jpg[/img] private business deal with it

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45328538]What happens if no bakery wants to make the cake?[/QUOTE] If your cake is at the very least reasonable then there will be someone somewhere who will make it. That includes pro-gay marriage cakes. If you push it so that it's such a horrific cake that literally nobody wants to make it... Then maybe you shouldn't have a retardedly obscene, offensive cake.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45328538]What happens if no bakery wants to make the cake?[/QUOTE] make it yourself. and then start a private cake business where you are a slave to all your customers.

I just hope this doesn't end with another bakery closing in protest.

[QUOTE=download;45327039]Eh, people have a right to discriminate and refuse service in private business.[/QUOTE] i'm pretty sure they have the right to refuse service but not to discriminate