Rand Paul's Guide to Improving the Grand Old Party - Polidicks

[quote]Washington (CNN) – Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, said Sunday he doesn't think the United States fits into a left-right paradigm - and he has some ideas on how to make the Republican Party more appealing to voters. "I think the Republican Party needs to find out how to be bigger, and I think I do bring some ideas to that. So I've talked to the Republican National Committee, the Republican National Committee chairman about things I think we need to do to be competitive," Paul said on "Fox News Sunday." "I think some of those ideas are a more libertarian-Republican approach to things, and I think a lot of young people are attracted to that. And our party could grow if we accepted something maybe a little different than the cookie-cutter conservatives that we've put out in the past."[/quote] [url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/24/rand-paul-has-some-ideas-for-republicans/?hpt=hp_bn3[/url] Before anyone says it - no, being a fan of his father does not automatically make me a fan of him.

Basically the party whose ultra-conservative tendencies lost them votes thinks the best way to fix it is to be more ultraconservative. [editline]25th March 2013[/editline] Because clearly - CLEARLY the fact that they've lost the support of the tea-party for being less than batshit insane is such a deep loss that they need to stop pretending to have the best interests of Americans in mind and come out of the closet as greedy sociopaths to win the Tea Party back.

The Republican's are losing the new vote because of their archaic social values and the losing the older vote because they're not fulfilling their promises or looking out for their interests.

A good way of improving the party slightly would be to get rid of Rand Paul.

He didn't really say anything past "we should cater to people other than angry old rich white guys", which anyone with a passing interest in US politics could've told you.

Stop being Anti-Gay Marriage and Abortion most of the time and I'd even consider joining the republican party. Help close the tax-loop holes for corporations and really high income families/individuals and I'd consider it even more.

[QUOTE=CubeManv2;40038855]Stop being Anti-Gay Marriage and Abortion most of the time and I'd even consider joining the republican party. Help close the tax-loop holes for corporations and really high income families/individuals and I'd consider it even more.[/QUOTE] So basically, become the Democratic Party :v:

[QUOTE=CubeManv2;40038855]Stop being Anti-Gay Marriage and Abortion most of the time and I'd even consider joining the republican party. Help close the tax-loop holes for corporations and really high income families/individuals and I'd consider it even more.[/QUOTE] I'm hoping my party will actually do this... If the GOP wants to improve, they need to modernize.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40038915]So basically, become the Democratic Party :v:[/QUOTE] rofl pretty much. They're the moderate party nowadays.

The GOP [I]will[/I] eventually change for the better. We just have to wait for the elderly conservative bible-thumpers to all croak and the ranks will be filled in by people of a newer generation. The challenge is keeping these people tied up and unable to reign over the government and legislation until then.

[QUOTE] "I think some of those ideas are a more libertarian-Republican approach to things, and I think a lot of young people are attracted to that[/QUOTE] They are attracted to legalized pot and less wars, not your Ayn Rand-style objectivist fantasies where the invisible hand of the free market decides who lives and who dies.

Here's the problem with conservative fiscal policy - Their response to an economic crisis with high unemployment is to give more money to huge corporations and hope they use it to create jobs. Meanwhile, they scrap policies meant to protect the environment, regulate corporations, and ensure that consumers and workers are not exploited. So with less holding them back, the big corporations take the money they get in their tax breaks, give their CEOs bonuses, then close down manufacturing plants and outsource to China, India and the Phillipines. That way, they return bigger profits for their shareholders while cutting labor costs. Those entering the industry who offer their goods and services at lower prices are bullied into conformity by the big businesses with the price standards they set. Competitive pricing is a pretty myth. The conservative government, in their infinite wisdom, then begins to cut spending to essential programs. Public education, healthcare, and social security all go down the shitter. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Taxes are lowered as an incentive to gain the votes of the working class, and more of the government's budget is dumped into the military - That way, the military can start and sustain another fresh war with dubious motives that acts as a very convenient way to keep the local population distracted and to create a nationalist movement in support of the current government. With reduced revenue from the population through taxation, the debt starts to skyrocket. There's a tiny boom followed by a long fall every single goddamn time. Democrat and Republican governments alike adopt conservative fiscal policy, but Republicans are the worst. And the whole ideology is just a big, bullshit excuse to line the pockets of the rich while pretending the wealth will 'trickle down'. Bah. It's not sustainable, it's not logical, and it's very, very, very convenient for certain parties - Especially those from whom the largest campaign donations come.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40038722]Basically the party whose ultra-conservative tendencies lost them votes thinks the best way to fix it is to be more ultraconservative. [editline]25th March 2013[/editline] Because clearly - CLEARLY the fact that they've lost the support of the tea-party for being less than batshit insane is such a deep loss that they need to stop pretending to have the best interests of Americans in mind and come out of the closet as greedy sociopaths to win the Tea Party back.[/QUOTE] "I think some of those ideas are a more libertarian-Republican approach to things, and I think a lot of young people are attracted to that. And our party could grow if we accepted something maybe a little different than the cookie-cutter conservatives that we've put out in the past." libertarian is a lot more "moderate" than the normal conservatism generally associated with republicans. adding libertarian ideals would actually do a lot to garner voters since a ton of younger people are now identifying as libertarian. it's a good pr move.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40039370]"I think some of those ideas are a more libertarian-Republican approach to things, and I think a lot of young people are attracted to that. And our party could grow if we accepted something maybe a little different than the cookie-cutter conservatives that we've put out in the past." libertarian is a lot more "moderate" than the normal conservatism generally associated with republicans. adding libertarian ideals would actually do a lot to garner voters since a ton of younger people are now identifying as libertarian. it's a good pr move.[/QUOTE] I wish these supposed young libertarians wouldn't be so blind and actually go to the LP instead of the fictitious 'libertarian GOP faction'.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40039370]"I think some of those ideas are a more libertarian-Republican approach to things, and I think a lot of young people are attracted to that. And our party could grow if we accepted something maybe a little different than the cookie-cutter conservatives that we've put out in the past." libertarian is a lot more "moderate" than the normal conservatism generally associated with republicans. adding libertarian ideals would actually do a lot to garner voters since a ton of younger people are now identifying as libertarian. it's a good pr move.[/QUOTE] Libertarianism is a step past conservatism, dude. It essentially gives the 1% a vehicle to rule over the 99% because it supports the elimination or crippling of social welfare. Maybe it'd work if the USA was capitalist. It's not. There's no real competition when prices are rigged.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40039387]Libertarianism is a step past conservatism, dude. It essentially gives the 1% a vehicle to rule over the 99%.[/QUOTE] There are many types of libertarianism as there are other types of political beliefs. Not all of them subscribe to the "every man to themselves" mentality. It's just that the GOP are using the extreme "every man to themselves" libertarianism and saying it's better than what they have now, which is untrue and I feel it's corrupting the image of the more broad, friendly versions of libertarianism.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40039379]I wish these supposed young libertarians wouldn't be so blind and actually go to the LP instead of the fictitious 'libertarian GOP faction'.[/QUOTE] In addition, where were these 'civil liberties conservatives' or 'small government Republicans' when Bush passed the PATRIOT Act? This idea that there is a libertarian side to the GOP is a joke. A fiction.

i mean look at how well ron paul was able to garner the young vote by pretending to be libertarian.

The problem I see with most libertarians is they tend to be corporate whores and/or apologetics. Many of them don't realize that for society to work we need to keep people from being bullied by corporations and keep corporations from bullying other corporations. The government is doing a piss poor job of that and it's only getting worse, but having no government would pretty much be the worst case scenario in terms of that. The "free market" doesn't work and even though more and more people are falling into the trap of believing it's the answer, more people are also learning about how it fails. There's a thing called a trust which is the giant pacific ocean sized hole in the free market argument. It's the government's job to prevent both monopolies and trusts. If conservatives want to get people's attention, they need to start focusing on the things everyone agrees with, like fixing the completely fucking broken patent system.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;40039397]In addition, where were these 'civil liberties conservatives' or 'small government Republicans' when Bush passed the PATRIOT Act? This idea that there is a libertarian side to the GOP is a joke. A fiction.[/QUOTE] Exactly. The only thing the GOP agree with in regards to libertarianism is the extreme end of their fiscal ideology and nothing further.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40039387]Libertarianism is a step past conservatism, dude. It essentially gives the 1% a vehicle to rule over the 99% because it supports the elimination or crippling of social welfare. Maybe it'd work if the USA was capitalist. It's not. There's no real competition when prices are rigged.[/QUOTE] (rightist)libertarianism differentiates from traditional conservatism in two ways, both of which are appealing to voters: 1) deregulation and less interventionism in the private sector. conservatives and liberals alike are very interventionist and end up benefitting who pays them most through subsidies and tax exemptions. libertarians take a more "fair" approach, no one should be subsidized and no one should be penalized. let people fail or succeed on their own merits. 2) less social interventionism. this is where libertarians truly seem moderate. most of them support ideas like gay marriage(or abolishing marriage outright), often times abortion rights, and often drug legalization. they believe in civil liberties, although they believe that civil liberties are achieved through non-interventionist means rather than the interventionist means of american liberals. this is attractive because libertarianism stands for "freedom" in a very straightforward sense. just stop having government get involved in everyone's life.

a libertarian leaning republican party would mean that the democrats would have to push themselves further left. alot of good would come from a liberal/libertarian two party system

[QUOTE=Bobie;40039495]a libertarian leaning republican party would mean that the democrats would have to push themselves further left. alot of good would come from a liberal/libertarian two party system[/QUOTE] i would rather choose between centre-lefts and right libertarians than centre-right and "slightly less centre-right".

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40039482](rightist)libertarianism differentiates from traditional conservatism in two ways, both of which are appealing to voters: 1) deregulation and less interventionism in the private sector. conservatives and liberals alike are very interventionist and end up benefitting who pays them most through subsidies and tax exemptions. libertarians take a more "fair" approach, no one should be subsidized and no one should be penalized. let people fail or succeed on their own merits. 2) less social interventionism. this is where libertarians truly seem moderate. most of them support ideas like gay marriage(or abolishing marriage outright), often times abortion rights, and often drug legalization. they believe in civil liberties, although they believe that civil liberties are achieved through non-interventionist means rather than the interventionist means of american liberals. this is attractive because libertarianism stands for "freedom" in a very straightforward sense. just stop having government get involved in everyone's life.[/QUOTE] So, like communism, it operates on the assumption that nobody'll abuse the system. And like communism, it'll never work on a national level because human beings are assholes.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40039482]just stop having government get involved in everyone's life.[/QUOTE] Which has, of course, worked brilliantly in Somalia. Government was created to address the needs of the people, a society in which no overarching entity steps in to ensure fairness to everyone becomes cutthroat and exploitative frighteningly quickly.

[QUOTE=Bobie;40039495]a libertarian leaning republican party would mean that the democrats would have to push themselves further left. alot of good would come from a liberal/libertarian two party system[/QUOTE] I'd rather have the LP and the Democratic Party be the two big players with the GOP being an outlier party with maybe only a few seats in Congress (just so there's at least some representation of assholes).

[QUOTE=archangel125;40039566]So, like communism, it operates on the assumption that nobody'll abuse the system. And like communism, it'll never work on a national level because human beings are assholes.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=catbarf;40039571]Which has, of course, worked brilliantly in Somalia. Government was created to address the needs of the people, a society in which no overarching entity steps in to ensure fairness to everyone becomes cutthroat and exploitative frighteningly quickly.[/QUOTE] guys guys guys i'm not defending right libertarianism, although i do take offense at the communism comment considering i'm a leftist. i'm just saying [i]why[/i] it is appealing to younger voters. young adults are generally interested in freedom to pursue their interests. libertarianism claims to offer that freedom.

[QUOTE=catbarf;40039571]Which has, of course, worked brilliantly in Somalia. Government was created to address the needs of the people, a society in which no overarching entity steps in to ensure fairness to everyone becomes cutthroat and exploitative frighteningly quickly.[/QUOTE] Why the hell does everyone assume libertarianism automatically equates to anarchy?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40039592]Why the hell does everyone assume libertarianism automatically equates to anarchy?[/QUOTE] why the hell do you assume somalia equates to anarchy? :P

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40039602]why the hell do you assume somalia equates to anarchy? :P[/QUOTE] Touche.