North Carolina congressional map ruled unconstitutionally gerrymandered - Polidicks

[url]https://nytimes.com/2018/01/09/us/north-carolina-gerrymander.html[/url] [quote]A panel of federal judges struck down North Carolina’s congressional map on Tuesday, declaring it unconstitutionally gerrymandered and demanding that the Republican-controlled General Assembly redraw district lines before this year’s midterm elections. The ruling was the first time that a federal court had blocked a congressional map because the judges believed it to be a partisan gerrymander, and it deepened the political chaos that has enveloped North Carolina in recent years. “We agree with plaintiffs that a wealth of evidence proves the General Assembly’s intent to ‘subordinate’ the interests of non-Republican voters and ‘entrench’ Republican domination of the state’s congressional delegation,” Judge James A. Wynn Jr. wrote in a 191-page opinion that another judge joined in full. Later in the ruling, Judge Wynn, an appointee of President Barack Obama, added that the judges believed that Republicans in the Legislature had been “motivated by invidious partisan intent.”[/quote] [quote][b]The judges gave lawmakers until Jan. 24 to propose a “remedial plan,” but cautioned that the court would begin preparations to issue a map of its own if it found the new district lines deficient.[/b][/quote]

For reference, here's the map as it currently stands: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif.png[/t] VS how it used to be in the 70s: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif.png[/t] Few people really understand the political fallout that comes from voting for Republicans until they look at redrawn congressional maps. It's never just a choice between this candidate or that candidate, it literally has this ripple effect that can span decades. Next time you think about voting for a Republican, even one that seems moderate, think of these maps.

[QUOTE=mcharest;53039067]For reference, here's the map as it currently stands: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif.png[/t] VS how it used to be in the 70s: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif.png[/t] Few people really understand the political fallout that comes from voting for Republicans until they look at redrawn congressional maps. It's never just a choice between this candidate or that candidate, it literally has this ripple effect that can span decades. Next time you think about voting for a Republican, even one that seems moderate, think of these maps.[/QUOTE] It's just so blatant. Look at District 12, for God's sake.

[QUOTE=mcharest;53039067]For reference, here's the map as it currently stands: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif.png[/t] VS how it used to be in the 70s: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif.png[/t] Few people really understand the political fallout that comes from voting for Republicans until they look at redrawn congressional maps. It's never just a choice between this candidate or that candidate, it literally has this ripple effect that can span decades. Next time you think about voting for a Republican, even one that seems moderate, think of these maps.[/QUOTE] holy shit, its like they're just consciously trying to see how far they can push it before getting caught

For people who aren't from the States, what does this mean? Have the districts been modified so they would include mostly republican towns?

[QUOTE=Dvdgg;53039122]For people who aren't from the States, what does this mean? Have the districts been modified so they would include mostly republican towns?[/QUOTE] Either that or to group all the black people in certain districts so to concentrate their vote and have the rest lean gop.

[QUOTE=Dvdgg;53039122]For people who aren't from the States, what does this mean? Have the districts been modified so they would include mostly republican towns?[/QUOTE] [video]https://youtu.be/Mky11UJb9AY[/video]

Gerrymandering is basically just redrawing district lines in such a way that the actual voting power of a particular political demographic is unfairly misrepresented. [T]https://i.imgur.com/mgUyQeT.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53039126]Either that or to group all the black people in certain districts so to concentrate their vote and have the rest lean gop.[/QUOTE] Shocker: 12th district in NC is represented by a black female Democrat, in a district regularly won heavily (65%+) by Democrats every election since its creation.

[QUOTE=Dvdgg;53039122]For people who aren't from the States, what does this mean? Have the districts been modified so they would include mostly republican towns?[/QUOTE] No, what they do is nip off little bits of democrat areas, like my side of the street through a sliver of my town is in a district that stretches over a hundred miles away through extremely rural communities even though I live in a left leaning area, resulting in my rep always being picked by people a hundred miles away and represent their interests instead of my local area

[QUOTE=elfbarf;53039151]Shocker: 12th district in NC is represented by a black female Democrat, in a district regularly won heavily (65%+) by Democrats every election since its creation.[/QUOTE] It looks like a bunch of islands that the GOP pinched off of their own districts to skew the state as a whole.

Hopefully this is the first of many. Gerrymandering is a blight on our nation. Both parties do it, but Republicans seem to do it more and combine it with voting restrictions because they have the most to lose. [URL="http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S"]North Carolina has a hell of a lot more registered Democrats but very few are elected to political office[/URL].

[QUOTE=CreeplyTuna;53039326]Hopefully this is the first of many. Gerrymandering is a blight on our nation. Both parties do it, but Republicans seem to do it more and combine it with voting restrictions because they have the most to lose. [URL="http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S"]North Carolina has a hell of a lot more registered Democrats but very few are elected to political office[/URL].[/QUOTE] Let's hope this sets a precedent.

Good, our representatives are shameless and only attack the appointment of the judges ordering them to do this when confronted. Hopefully district 8 is revised to make my House vote actually count for once.

Pennyslvania is also terribly gerrymandered. But the judge presiding over the case said that while it gave republicans an unfair advantage, the democrats didn't put forth a proper legal framework to create fair districts. Its going to Pennsylvania's Supreme Court, and people should keep an eye on it because if they win the case, this will force several seats around Philadelphia that are incredibly gerrymandered to be wide open for democratic stealing.

[QUOTE=SunsetTable;53044023]Pennyslvania is also terribly gerrymandered. But the judge presiding over the case said that while it gave republicans an unfair advantage, the democrats didn't put forth a proper legal framework to create fair districts. Its going to Pennsylvania's Supreme Court, and people should keep an eye on it because if they win the case, this will force several seats around Philadelphia that are incredibly gerrymandered to be wide open for democratic stealing.[/QUOTE] That is one of the annoying parts about this, the courts have ruled for years that while they can see a problem the plaintifs havent given them a solution. It shouldn't be their job to provide a solution it should be the court's job or the legislature's job.

[QUOTE=Sableye;53044171]That is one of the annoying parts about this, the courts have ruled for years that while they can see a problem the plaintifs havent given them a solution. It shouldn't be their job to provide a solution it should be the court's job or the legislature's job.[/QUOTE] I mean one simple solution is to have a mathematical law about the proportion of the square of the perimeter of each district compared to the area; it wouldn't be a 100% solution but it would throw a wrench into a lot of the worst gerrymandering attempts

[QUOTE=mcharest;53039067]For reference, here's the map as it currently stands: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_since_2013.tif.png[/t] VS how it used to be in the 70s: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif/lossless-page1-800px-United_States_Congressional_Districts_in_North_Carolina%2C_1973_%E2%80%93_1982.tif.png[/t] Few people really understand the political fallout that comes from voting for Republicans until they look at redrawn congressional maps. It's never just a choice between this candidate or that candidate, it literally has this ripple effect that can span decades. Next time you think about voting for a Republican, even one that seems moderate, think of these maps.[/QUOTE] This is incorrect. This this the map that was struck down. That one you are showing was struck down in 2016. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/NorthCarolina2016USHouseDistricts.png[/img]

[QUOTE=patq911;53044256]This is incorrect. This this the map that was struck down. That one you are showing was struck down in 2016. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/NorthCarolina2016USHouseDistricts.png[/img][/QUOTE] Wow d12 is nearly non-existant.

And little tiny d4 aww

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;53044307]Wow d12 is nearly non-existant.[/QUOTE] That's Charlotte, one of the bigger cities in the state. [editline]11th January 2018[/editline] I think 4 is Durham/Raleigh.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;53044220]I mean one simple solution is to have a mathematical law about the proportion of the square of the perimeter of each district compared to the area; it wouldn't be a 100% solution but it would throw a wrench into a lot of the worst gerrymandering attempts[/QUOTE] Or just attack the root of the issue and make gerrymandering useless in the first place by giving the most contested seats to the opposition parties until there is proportional representation.

[QUOTE=mcharest;53039067]Few people really understand the political fallout that comes from voting for Republicans until they look at redrawn congressional maps. It's never just a choice between this candidate or that candidate, it literally has this ripple effect that can span decades. Next time you think about voting for a Republican, even one that seems moderate, think of these maps.[/QUOTE] I 100% agree with what you are saying but Democrats in certain states are guilty of gerrymandering as well. It's an exploitive tool that both parties use. Republicans tend to disenfranchise the votes of minorities while doing it, and Democrats tend to concentrate the votes of minorities. They both bolster their voter bases and dilute the opposition. Absolutely a major problem with the system.

Honestly, this is a pretty open and shut case. The Republican defendants didn't even dispute that they did the districting specifically to help republicans win.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;53044220]I mean one simple solution is to have a mathematical law about the proportion of the square of the perimeter of each district compared to the area; it wouldn't be a 100% solution but it would throw a wrench into a lot of the worst gerrymandering attempts[/QUOTE] But this isn't a simple problem, its a very very complex one and as such there will never be a perfect mathish solution like the courts want and for them to pursue one could end up with a binding standard that is both mathematically flawed and worse than what we have now [editline]11th January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE='Poesidan [GAG];53044381']I 100% agree with what you are saying but Democrats in certain states are guilty of gerrymandering as well. It's an exploitive tool that both parties use. Republicans tend to disenfranchise the votes of minorities while doing it, and Democrats tend to concentrate the votes of minorities. They both bolster their voter bases and dilute the opposition. Absolutely a major problem with the system.[/QUOTE] "They did it too." But the pin point precision the republicans applied to the 2010 maps is leagues ahead of what the democrats did where they controlled states. Thats what all of this is about though. Before 2010 you had a bunch of political bosses generally guessing about the districts, but now the system of gerrymandering is too good, it is mathmatically certain to always benefit one party over the other

[QUOTE=Sableye;53044996]But this isn't a simple problem, its a very very complex one and as such there will never be a perfect mathish solution like the courts want and for them to pursue one could end up with a binding standard that is both mathematically flawed and worse than what we have now[/QUOTE] Hence why the way the system itself works needs to be changed.

[QUOTE=_Axel;53044335]Or just attack the root of the issue and make gerrymandering useless in the first place by giving the most contested seats to the opposition parties until there is proportional representation.[/QUOTE] That's not a good solution. THat's not even a 'meh' solution. What if those people actually want GOP representation for some bizarre reason? Shouldn't the people be given a fair chance to choose who they wish to represent themselves? That's the entire problem with gerrymandering in the first place. It's less 'disproportionate representation' and more 'Corrupt fucksticks have gamed the system in such a way that they can suppress minority votes and stabilize their careers'.

Meanwhile in my state, released just today [URL="http://www.pahomepage.com/news/court-rules-pennsylvania-can-keep-congressional-district-map/910642014"]http://www.pahomepage.com/news/court-rules-pennsylvania-can-keep-congressional-district-map/910642014 :disappoint: [/URL]

[QUOTE=Viva;53045873]Meanwhile in my state, released just today [URL="http://www.pahomepage.com/news/court-rules-pennsylvania-can-keep-congressional-district-map/910642014"]http://www.pahomepage.com/news/court-rules-pennsylvania-can-keep-congressional-district-map/910642014 :disappoint: [/URL][/QUOTE] [t]http://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net/wp/2016/07/Pennsylvania07.jpg[/t] This is fine.

[QUOTE=TestECull;53045465]That's not a good solution. THat's not even a 'meh' solution. What if those people actually want GOP representation for some bizarre reason?[/QUOTE] Uh, what? Why would people vote democrat if they want a republican rep? That rebuttal doesn't make any sense at all. [QUOTE]Shouldn't the people be given a fair chance to choose who they wish to represent themselves?[/QUOTE] Yeah, hence why any incentive behind gerrymandering should be removed. Democrat voters aren't given a fair chance to choose who represents them. If you're referring to the republican voters who get a democrat rep despite being a slight majority, they can complain about it to the republicans who did a poor job drawing the districts. Competent district drawing should end up with proportional local [I]and[/I] global representation.