[QUOTE][url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-20/russian-chinese-leaders-silent-on-gas-deal-in-shanghai.html[/url]
“It shows that Russia is not willing to cut a low-price deal just to make a political point with the west,” said Chris Weafer, founder at Macro Advisory in Moscow. “The danger is if a deal is not concluded this year China may switch its efforts to secure pipeline gas elsewhere.”
Gazprom shares fell as much 3.93 rubles, or 2.7 percent, to 144.1 rubles in Moscow today. The stock traded at 144.9 rubles at 6:19 p.m. local time.[/QUOTE]
This is big.
shieeeeeeeeet
also sorry I thought I had a pun but -snip-
i dunno if it is just because i have fallen out of the loop about international politics but it seems like china is more western-nation aligned than aligned with russia
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;44859139]Is this a good thing or a bad thing?[/QUOTE]
Very very good for the west.
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;44859139]Is this a good thing or a bad thing?[/QUOTE]
Good for the West: Russia doesn't want to tank their gas price just to prove a point against us. It kind of implies they really need the money, and China isn't willing to cough up that amount. If they can't find any buyer for all their gas, they could get in trouble.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44859133]i dunno if it is just because i have fallen out of the loop about international politics but it seems like china is more western-nation aligned than aligned with russia[/QUOTE]
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware China doesn't have utmost good relations with any of their neighbors.
oh damn
friend zoned
the US may be famous for its stock markets, but I doubt the chinese brokers holding these shares are in any way less smart than their american counterparts
The article says talks are continuing.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;44859213]Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware China doesn't have utmost good relations with any of their neighbors.[/QUOTE]
That's because they're now flexing their muscles as an uncontested regional power who no one will be willing to go up against directly because of trade agreements and potential damage to the economy.
The problem is, they need more money to break even with the pipeline. And this title is misleading, China didn't decline anything, negotiations are ongoing is what it means.
Oh yeah, this is what I wanted to hear.
Great news
[QUOTE=The golden;44859334]China and Russia may be butt-buddies but even China knows that dealing with Russia to such an extent is bad for their established business with the US. China is anything but stupid.[/QUOTE]
They're not declining because of politics, they're declining (for the time being) because of the price Russia is asking. China is in need of gas, and the most efficient way to get gas would be to get it from Russia.
Talks are still ongoing, they will most likely accept when the asking price is somewhat lowered.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;44859213]Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware China doesn't have utmost good relations with any of their neighbors.[/QUOTE]
China is China, they do backflips on policy 7 days a week. Nobody knows what they'll do next.
And history has taught us that if you want to find your enemy, look next door, not far away.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44859133]i dunno if it is just because i have fallen out of the loop about international politics but it seems like china is more western-nation aligned than aligned with russia[/QUOTE]
they have more of a vested interest with the west, the west has both technology and open markets while russia is more in the business of supplying natural resources and old soviet technology, also their economy is like 2 steps away from implosion at all times, so they'd rather stay away from potential sanctions. also china and russia have never had a [I]good[/I] relationship, it just happens that china and russia use each other's political clout from time to time to get their way.
[QUOTE=The golden;44859334]China and Russia may be butt-buddies but even China knows that dealing with Russia to such an extent is bad for their established business with the US. China is anything but stupid.[/QUOTE]
You make no sense.EU is buying a lot of gas from Russia as we speak and has been for decades; and this has no effects at all in its PR with USA.
As a comparison, the deal that Russia was on to making with china would have been to supply about the same amount annually that they ship to Germany alone.
Anyways this whole affair is simple; either the EU buys gas&petrol from arab wells through USA intermediaries or they deal with Russia, with a huge potential of it gaining enough power to project its desires in the continent again, like it did after ww2.
This stratagem works wonders for USA aswell, because it keeps the heartland countries(mainly Russia&China) from acquiring seizable maritime power to rival it's own, and as a result makes them heavily dependant upon good relations with the USA&west if they are to succeed ecconomicaly, otherwise they'd face a fate similar to that of Iran or N.Korea, that is, economic blockade.
If Eurasia were to rally up against the maritime powers(mainly Commonwealth&USA), the west would become islandic...
By now, I think they know it will be near to impossible to succeed(at least china appears to, Russia is still in denial of the west).
Napoleon tried an economic blockade against UK and it didn't work.Nazi Germany wanted to do that to UK aswell, and you know how it turned out...
tl;dr
[img]http://i.imgur.com/gTuLLhT.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=laserguided;44859496]The problem is, they need more money to break even with the pipeline.[/QUOTE]
No, the pipeline project would cost a mere 20bln. It's doable.
Truth of the matter is China doesn't want Russia projecting its influence on it, and instead it wants to bully central-Asian countries(namely Turkmenistan, but basically all of the other stan's aswell) into supplying china with gas, on china's terms.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;44859213]Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I'm aware China doesn't have utmost good relations with any of their neighbors.[/QUOTE]
China has never liked Russia
[QUOTE=proboardslol;44861484]China has never liked Russia[/QUOTE]
Yes it did.
Nations have no intrinsic hatred towards other nations, they simply adapt to the given conditions.
It's why you'd have cases like Prussia waging war against Austria, then allying with them in ww1.
Or napoleon, Russia and others waging war against UK, then in ww1&ww2 those being allied and I can keep like this on and on with examples.
[QUOTE=The golden;44859334]China and Russia may be butt-buddies but even China knows that dealing with Russia to such an extent is bad for their established business with the US. China is anything but stupid.[/QUOTE]
China and Russia really aren't too friendly. They're backing each other right now more out of necessity than anything but they are by no means friends. The Sino-Soviet Split's aftereffects are still prevalent in both countries.
You show them who's boss China.
[QUOTE=usaokay;44861410]Take that, Communism!
Wait...[/QUOTE]
You should read the text before answering with your ass
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44859133]i dunno if it is just because i have fallen out of the loop about international politics but it seems like china is more western-nation aligned than aligned with russia[/QUOTE]
Nope, they just don't like to be screwed over in deals.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;44861484]China has never liked Russia[/QUOTE]
I rated this dumb as it is too over simplified; they were/are strong allies, but had/have ideological differences, which caused/causes schisms frequently.
eg. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split[/URL]
The thing most people are overlooking is that China was actually cozying up with Ukraine a few years ago. Mostly it was Ukraine renting farmland to China (in the eastern part, no less), and China doing construction work in Ukraine. It was actually on track to become a major food source for China.
If Russia is jeopardizing that investment, China will be justifiably angry.
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;44859139]Is this a good thing or a bad thing?[/QUOTE]
very good for canada
[QUOTE=gman003-main;44863124]The thing most people are overlooking is that China was actually cozying up with Ukraine a few years ago. Mostly it was Ukraine renting farmland to China (in the eastern part, no less), and China doing construction work in Ukraine. It was actually on track to become a major food source for China.
If Russia is jeopardizing that investment, China will be justifiably angry.[/QUOTE]
China struck deals with most of the European countries as of 2014. They've been meeting with French/german/dutch/uk politicians. Amongst agriculture&livestock purchases in east Europe, they signed deals on infrastructure(cited, they want to link Europe from east to west through 500km/h trains. also building IT parks in Belarus afaik)
Yeah Russia is seriously lacking in persuasive powers in relation to eu countries. I can't remember when the last time putin was greeted in an European country warmly, and when he struck new deals besides the classic gas ones...
In a recent opinion poll in germany, the chinese showed the same amount of trust as the americans. that's something.
If China were to distance itself from the cheap and poor quality products it's became commonly known for, its reputation would skyrocket.
[editline]20th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Untouch;44863131]very good for canada[/QUOTE]
Why? Canada isn't selling any gas to china is it?
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