so what's stopping me from turning off my phone as soon as I enter
So are we past the point where we put i's in front of words (iPod, iPhone, iSnack) and now we're putting Go after words?
Love it when they disable the comments in the video.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;51480698]Love it when they disable the comments in the video.[/QUOTE]
Don't you know? Grocery Shopping videos always attract lots of shitposters in the comments section.
this is.... cool as fuck.
[QUOTE=Conro101;51480687]so what's stopping me from turning off my phone as soon as I enter[/QUOTE]
Moreover, why even bring a phone? Not like there's a gate there to stop you.
I'd imagine the store would work like most grocery stores where there's a scanner at the entrance.
Though it feels to me that amazon hasn't really thought up most ways that people would play the system, maybe they have that figured out though, they sure don't explain it.
[QUOTE=Qwerty Bastard;51480769]Moreover, why even bring a phone? Not like there's a gate there to stop you.[/QUOTE]
I imagine they've thought of that, unless they're just incredibly trusting.
[QUOTE=Conro101;51480687]so what's stopping me from turning off my phone as soon as I enter[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Qwerty Bastard;51480769]Moreover, why even bring a phone? Not like there's a gate there to stop you.[/QUOTE]
What do you think will happen? You will be approached, watched, and/or questioned by employees, especially if you try walking out with anything. Just like any other store you go to, except you'll stick out more cause the system won't recognize you.
This is going to put a lot of people out of a job if it becomes widespread. Better off without tech like this IMO.
[QUOTE=Conro101;51480687]so what's stopping me from turning off my phone as soon as I enter[/QUOTE]
I can imagine you login to amazon by entering and everything else will be computed by the store's system, so you don't need your phone after entering.
[QUOTE=SnakeHead;51481153]This is going to put a lot of people out of a job if it becomes widespread. Better off without tech like this IMO.[/QUOTE]
More like society needs to evolve, because you're not going to stop technology no matter how hard you try.
That being said, this particular piece of technology seems pretty weird. I might be wrong, but I could think of a million ways this could be exploited, or just plain fail. What even does all of the computer vision and image recognition they talk about in the video? If it's using cameras in the store, could I fool it by blocking the camera with my body before picking something up?
They don't explain anything beyond a few buzzwords, which doesn't really have me feeling confident.
[QUOTE=Conro101;51480687]so what's stopping me from turning off my phone as soon as I enter[/QUOTE]
The exit gate will probably not open if it doesn't detect a phone signal. They'll also have guards outside the gates to make sure people don't climb over them.
This is a really cool idea that has so many flaws. Flaws like turning off your phone mid shopping and just walking out because there is apparently no receipts.
[QUOTE=Conro101;51480687]so what's stopping me from turning off my phone as soon as I enter[/QUOTE]
The store-side system would probably be able to notice that a customer has vanished off the grid within the "shopping section" of the store, or it would be able to notice items leaving their shelf area without being reassigned to a logged-in customer or employee.
I mean, it's got to be able to spit out error messages in case someone's cell phone batteries die, there's network interference, or someone doesn't have enough money to buy something.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;51481290]This is a really cool idea that has so many flaws. Flaws like turning off your phone mid shopping and just walking out because there is apparently no receipts.[/QUOTE]
I only want to have to explain this once, but firstly; you do not know how this works, stop acting like it.
Alright, now that that's out of the way, while I don't know myself precisely how they're going to implement this, it would be safe to assume that the majority of what was said in the video was NOT buzzwords. Here's what's going to happen, most likely;
1.) Customer enters shop, and taps phone. Unique session ID is attached to that customer, and the session ID connects back to their amazon account
2.) High definition cameras track the person's movement through the store, using their deep learning algorithms, and they are spaced so that they never lose sight of a single person. By never losing LOS, the system can effectively continue tracking any one person.
3.) When the person grabs a food item, either the high definition cameras (utilizing the deep learning algorithms), or other, more simple sensors in the rack of items detect when an item is taken. Similarly, these sensor systems can detect when an item is placed back on a shelf. Any items picked up are added to the user's virtual cart, attached to their session ID, attached to their amazon ID.
4.) When the user exits the store, they pass through some kind of way-gate, terminating their session and checking out their basket.
tldr; Amazon most definitely knows when you are trying to steal something, and probably tracks your movement with incredibly high resolution cameras. You are not smarter than Amazon.
Was expecting some sort of pokemon go minigame integrated into the store
[QUOTE=Untouch;51480789]Though it feels to me that amazon hasn't really thought up most ways that people would play the system, maybe they have that figured out though, they sure don't explain it.[/QUOTE]
You don't tend to explain the methods you've implemented to stop thieves or whatever in promotional material. It's a waste of time and a majority of the viewers won't care that you "tried throwing things over the exit without a person, tried turning off the phone, hopped the barricade into the store", etc. because it's not really their business.
I'm sure Amazon put some thought into how to prevent people from not paying. They have quite an extensive computer science R&D division who could try all kinds of neat technologies.
What happens if the systems go down and people are just walking out with shit?
[QUOTE=Charades;51481603]What happens if the systems go down and people are just walking out with shit?[/QUOTE]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/lHAt8nN.png[/t]
You just walk out. :v: What's with these names anyway, FUSION, JUST WALK OUT. Good luck to Amazon either way, I wonder what people who barely know how to use phones will act like though, "HOW DO I SCAN THE SQUARE THING."
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51481516]I only want to have to explain this once, but firstly; you do not know how this works, stop acting like it.
Alright, now that that's out of the way, while I don't know myself precisely how they're going to implement this, it would be safe to assume that the majority of what was said in the video was NOT buzzwords. Here's what's going to happen, most likely;
1.) Customer enters shop, and taps phone. Unique session ID is attached to that customer, and the session ID connects back to their amazon account
2.) High definition cameras track the person's movement through the store, using their deep learning algorithms, and they are spaced so that they never lose sight of a single person. By never losing LOS, the system can effectively continue tracking any one person.
3.) When the person grabs a food item, either the high definition cameras (utilizing the deep learning algorithms), or other, more simple sensors in the rack of items detect when an item is taken. Similarly, these sensor systems can detect when an item is placed back on a shelf. Any items picked up are added to the user's virtual cart, attached to their session ID, attached to their amazon ID.
4.) When the user exits the store, they pass through some kind of way-gate, terminating their session and checking out their basket.
tldr; Amazon most definitely knows when you are trying to steal something, and probably tracks your movement with incredibly high resolution cameras. You are not smarter than Amazon.[/QUOTE]
wasn't trying to act like I knew everything about this after watching a video, lol. my apologies if I did!
like I said it's a real cool idea, and shit I wouldn't care much at all since this is Amazon behind it and they're not dumb, but I just thought there'd be some weird situations that could arise that'd affect it. like what if there's a lot of foot-traffic in an area where people are shopping, I'd think they'd need a bunch of cameras tracking to scan and watch everyone taking stuff off shelves and putting stuff back on shelves in high-traffic areas. but hey, I'm just spitballing, not saying that these flaws are in stone.
As cool as it sounds, its borderline Internet Of Shit technology. A non issue if you will. Grocery shopping has been perfected for ages and IMO is already a basic task that doesn't need alot of bells and whistles.
People said that self-checkout lanes would eliminate baggers/checkout staff. And a decade+ down the road, we still have them.
And if you are worried about shoplift, companies have already had measures in place and security cameras have been around for ages. Plus if a particular item is high value enough, usually you can just RFID tag it.
I hate to bash on them, but the big tech companies are looking for more and more non-issues to solve or change for change's sake.
As an engineer myself, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle"]K.I.S.S.[/URL]
[QUOTE=SnakeHead;51481153]This is going to put a lot of people out of a job if it becomes widespread. Better off without tech like this IMO.[/QUOTE]
Thats what happens when your job requirements are arms and an ability to communicate.
[QUOTE=duckmaster;51482570]Thats what happens when your job requirements are arms and an ability to communicate.[/QUOTE]
Wow, are you saying my amputee mute cousin Betty can't get a job???
[QUOTE=squids_eye;51480818]I imagine they've thought of that, unless they're just incredibly trusting.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I love when people ask such basic questions as though they've just found some revolutionary and critical flaw in the idea. I'm pretty sure if they can figure out how to build an automated grocery store of the future, they can hire a fucking security guard guys. Holy shit.
[editline]6th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=SnakeHead;51481153]This is going to put a lot of people out of a job if it becomes widespread. Better off without tech like this IMO.[/QUOTE]
It will, but if your job requires so little that it can be automated away with a smartphone, maybe you should learn to do something more useful than put things in bags.
[editline]6th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;51482541]As cool as it sounds, its borderline Internet Of Shit technology. A non issue if you will. Grocery shopping has been perfected for ages and IMO is already a basic task that doesn't need alot of bells and whistles.
People said that self-checkout lanes would eliminate baggers/checkout staff. And a decade+ down the road, we still have them.
And if you are worried about shoplift, companies have already had measures in place and security cameras have been around for ages. Plus if a particular item is high value enough, usually you can just RFID tag it.
I hate to bash on them, but the big tech companies are looking for more and more non-issues to solve or change for change's sake.
As an engineer myself, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle"]K.I.S.S.[/URL][/QUOTE]
I don't know dude, this seems way better than self-checkout. There's literally no wait, no lines. Some grocers the self-checkout is disabled, broken, or there's a big line because some moron can't remember how to swipe a card properly. If I had the choice of shopping at Safeway or Amazon Go, I'd pick Amazon every single time.
[QUOTE=srobins;51482970]Yeah, I love when people ask such basic questions as though they've just found some revolutionary and critical flaw in the idea. I'm pretty sure if they can figure out how to build an automated grocery store of the future, they can hire a fucking security guard guys. Holy shit.
[/QUOTE]
I think it's important to question how these systems work in the real world if Amazon wants to see it used in more places than their own, or to see themselves become pioneers. I dunno if that's their intention, but the people here are just questioning, not saying "this is flawed and here's why." Because the video is full of shit buzzwords, people have nothing but questions in this case. deep learning. pfft.
[QUOTE=srobins;51482970]
It will, but if your job requires so little that it can be automated away with a smartphone, maybe you should learn to do something more useful than put things in bags.[/QUOTE]
I should mention this is a bit if a crap sentiment in some cases. There are lots of people who just simply don't have the ability, I mean the physical or mental ability, to dedicate themselves to a full time job or a hugely customer facing job, especially in the tech industry. But there are still a ton of options as inventory specialists, or as security which would be incredibly important in a place like this. I guess what I'm trying to say is redirect your sentiment from "fuck the minimum wage cashiers, bring on the robots" to "if we are to replace you, we should find a better job that suits you as a person."
[editline]5th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51481516]big analysis[/QUOTE]
Honestly though, I think Amazon's main concern isn't "how do we deal with people who steal from us" because I guarantee you the local police will not care or do anything in a situation like this, when they'd have so many automated calls coming in, in a big city like Seattle. The main concern is "how do we prevent shrink in the first place." as is with most stores. Most retail don't care about who stole from you, they care about how not to have people steal in the first place, which is why most companies take a non-confrontation system first and foremost. I guess the most they could do would be to instantly ban and call the police if they try and come back, but that's one hole patched and many holes still left open until we know more about the system.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51483278]I think it's important to question how these systems work in the real world if Amazon wants to see it used in more places than their own, or to see themselves become pioneers. I dunno if that's their intention, but the people here are just questioning, not saying "this is flawed and here's why." Because the video is full of shit buzzwords, people have nothing but questions in this case. deep learning. pfft.
I should mention this is a bit if a crap sentiment in some cases. There are lots of people who just simply don't have the ability, I mean the physical or mental ability, to dedicate themselves to a full time job or a hugely customer facing job, especially in the tech industry. But there are still a ton of options as inventory specialists, or as security which would be incredibly important in a place like this. I guess what I'm trying to say is redirect your sentiment from "fuck the minimum wage cashiers, bring on the robots" to "if we are to replace you, we should find a better job that suits you as a person."[/QUOTE]
I figured it went without saying that people who are physically or mentally handicapped should be provided for and accommodated by social programs, I'm talking about able bodied/minded people. I don't think "but my job" is a strong enough reason to try and resist automation of unskilled labor.
[QUOTE=SnakeHead;51481153]This is going to put a lot of people out of a job if it becomes widespread. Better off without tech like this IMO.[/QUOTE]
You can't stop the march of technology.
Self checkout stations are already very popular where I live, and I [I]always[/I] use them over cashiers when possible because there's no lines (or the line is super short). This is basically the same dealio, but with even less effort on your part.
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