Israel to seal or demolish Jerusalem suspect's home - Polidicks

[quote]The Israeli news website Ynet reported Friday that minister Aharonovich said that the house of Abd al-Rahman al-Shaludi would either be sealed or demolished.[/quote] [url]http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=735030[/url] [img]http://www.maannews.net/images/345x230/300646_345x230.jpg[/img] Remember how Israel destroyed the family homes of those who were involved in the kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir? Me neither.

What exactly does punishing a dead mans family accomplish? Other than fulfilling some twisted, bigoted fantasy.

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46324926]Do you have any other source for your anti-israel news/agenda that isn't something so obviously biased like Maas? You don't even have to look at their journalistic background to see that, it's right on the foreground. [IMG]http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers-sm/2014/43/1414209403-20141025-015616.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] ISRAELI FORCES DETAIN ORPHANED BABY FOR SUSPECTED LINK TO HAMAS "The situation was valid, we're always looking to take the safest, the most sensible option," said an Israeli security chief.

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46324926]Do you have any other source for your anti-israel news/agenda that isn't something so obviously biased like Maas? You don't even have to look at their journalistic background to see that, it's right on the foreground. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/186552#.VEsjCtq2My4[/url] Heres a source more suitable for you, its an Israeli news agency based in a Jewish settlement.

Lamar to post another anti-Israel thread

[QUOTE=Srillo;46324844]What exactly does punishing a dead mans family accomplish? Other than fulfilling some twisted, bigoted fantasy.[/QUOTE] Back in the 90's, during the last great wave of suicide bombings, Israel came to realize the Palestinians were able to recruit so many suicide bombers because it was profitable for their families. Not just in raised social status, since the families of martyrs were praised and celebrated by the Palestinian leadership and their own communities, but because families were getting actual money from various organizations and IIRC even the PA. Demolishing the homes of terrorists suddenly made suicide bombings a lot less attractive and ended up being one of the measures (along with the security wall and targeted assassinations on bomb experts) that effectively stopped suicide bombings. Completely. To the point they had to start shooting rockets at us instead. I am assuming that as a new wave of terrorism is starting, with the Palestinian people and leadership once again celebrating the attackers (see [URL="http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-Islamic-Jihad-salute-Jerusalem-terror-attack-threaten-new-Palestinian-intifada-in-capital-379619"]here[/URL] and [URL="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/186507"]here[/URL]) as martyrs and heros, Israel brought back the home demolitions to try and curb the trend. Oh, and [URL="http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Watch-East-Jerusalem-terrorist-who-killed-infant-girl-hails-Palestinian-kidnappers-of-Jewish-teens-379748"]here[/URL]. As for the murderers of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, while their trial is still in progress as far as I know the primary suspect is a criminally insane man that previously tried to murder his own baby. Neither his family, the Israeli government or Israelis in general consider him anything other than a crazy child murderer. There's no one to deter by demolishing his home. Edit: Maan news is presenting the family as mostly confused about what happened, but [URL="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4583636,00.html"]Ynet[/URL] is reporting that the family has built a mourning tent with a banner praising the killer as a "hero", and flyers celebrating him as a martyr are already being distributed throughout Jerusalem. ([URL="http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4583601,00.html"]More [/URL]in the Hebrew report). [IMG]http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer4/2014/10/23/5653734/5653730099099640360no.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer4/2014/10/23/5653169/56531670990100490685no.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46325666][/QUOTE] From your very own article, [quote]Hundreds of people arrived to share in the family's grief – some called a-Shaludi a "hero".[/quote] It said right there that some called him a hero, you're pretty much criminalizing the family for mourning him as if they're not even allowed to mourn. [img]http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer4/2014/10/23/5653692/56536612100299640360no.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=ScumBunny;46325666]Demolishing the homes of terrorists suddenly made suicide bombings a lot less attractive and ended up being one of the measures[/QUOTE] If your justification for demolishing family homes is to prevent terrorism than why isn't the same applied to Jews? By your logic, not demolishing the family homes of those who were involved in the kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir is sending other Jews a message that terrorizing Arabs is simply a lesser crime. But you know what it actually is? An Israeli official exploiting the hard-on Jews have for anything seen as "tough on Arabs". I should know, I've lived in a Jewish community for most of my life and I've seen how Jews express admiration for people like Begin and Sharon for "being tough on Arabs". You know who they didn't admire? People like Yitzhak Rabin, he was "too soft" apparently. Its hypocritical practice, I don't believe family homes should be even destroyed in the first place. But if Jews like you defend the practice I ask you guys to not be fucking hypocrites about it. [editline]25th October 2014[/editline] Stop demolishing peoples houses altogether or at least be consistent with the practice instead of applying separate practices based on ethnicity.

[QUOTE=Lamar;46327930]From your very own article, It said right there that some called him a hero, you're pretty much criminalizing the family for mourning him as if they're not even allowed to mourn. [img]http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer4/2014/10/23/5653692/56536612100299640360no.jpg[/img] If your justification for demolishing family homes is to prevent terrorism than why isn't the same applied to Jews? By your logic, not demolishing the family homes of those who were involved in the kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir is sending other Jews a message that terrorizing Arabs is simply a lesser crime. But you know what it actually is? An Israeli official exploiting the hard-on Jews have for anything seen as "tough on Arabs". I should know, I've lived in a Jewish community for most of my life and I've seen how Jews express admiration for people like Begin and Sharon for "being tough on Arabs". You know who they didn't admire? People like Yitzhak Rabin, he was "too soft" apparently. Its hypocritical practice, I don't believe family homes should be even destroyed in the first place. But if Jews like you defend the practice I ask you guys to not be fucking hypocrites about it. [editline]25th October 2014[/editline] Stop demolishing peoples houses altogether or at least be consistent with the practice instead of applying separate practices based on ethnicity.[/QUOTE] So because you lived among the Jews you know how they think and you know that despite everything I say it's all about being "tough on Arabs"? Sorry, you don't get to tell me what my opinions are. Fact is that demolishing the homes of Palestinian terrorists (note: Palestinian. Not Arab) has been factually effective in stopping terrorism. I've been in college during the suicide bombing wave in the 90's, and I remember having to fear for my life every time I got on a bus or went in a mall. I remember driving past exploded, gutted buses on my way to collage and knowing they'd be scraping me off the road there have I gotten out of bed in time. There hasn't been a suicide bombing in, what, over a decade? Look, it takes a lot to get someone to kill himself, regardless of the cause. It takes a huge big system of support, with leaders and country men and family members telling you that you're going to be a martyr, that people will celebrate your death, that your family will be proud of you and the people proud of your family. And if you put into that system of considerations the point that also your family is going to lose its home because of you that also has an effect. And we know that not only because suicide bombers who failed or surrendered themselves testified to than, but because THERE HASN'T BEEN SUICIDE BOMBINGS IN OVER A DECADE. Now, that system of support for terrorists is back in action. From your own quote above, at least some of this killer's family and compatriots are considering him a hero. The same ones that hung the banner calling him a hero on the family mourning tent, and the ones distributing the flyers with his heroic picture. Both the PA and Hamas are definitely calling him a hero. So just as he was inspired by the heroic martyrs who killed the three teens, also celebrated by his leaders, his people [URL="http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Watch-East-Jerusalem-terrorist-who-killed-infant-girl-hails-Palestinian-kidnappers-of-Jewish-teens-379748"]and himself[/URL], so is his death already being used to inspire more killers. Blowing up his home may dampen the next guy's enthusiasm. It worked before. And note that I'm not arguing that its fair, or justified in any way. I'm just saying that's why we're doing this. Not out of pure spite. And again, this is why we're not doing it to Israeli killers. Israeli criminals are subject to Israeli criminal law. Palestinians aren't Israeli. Israel hasn't annexed them. They're Palestinians. An enemy nation. We're not treating them as criminals just as the USA isn't handing out arrest warrants to ISIS members right now. Different situation, different rules. Like it or not. And I shouldn't have to state it, but no prominent Israeli leader or politician praised that Palestinian boy's murder, and the overwhelming majority of the Israeli public were horrified by it. There is no system of support cooking up the next child murderer for us to deter. The killer's family isn't celebrating his actions. No one is cheering his family or giving them cash for what he did. And finally, are you saying I'm an Israeli official? Because I work for an American corporation. My team leader is a Druze. His boss is Circassian and the CEO is Indian. Oh hey, and you do know Rabin was elected by a Majority of Israelis, right? As was Barak after him, and Sharon in his last term. All for supporting the peace proccess, not for being "tough on Arabs". You also know Begin is the leader that made peace with Egypt and gave back Sinai, and is most celebrated for that, right?

There's something I like about having uninformed comments being overshadowed like this.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46328375]words[/QUOTE] Stop prattling on and get the meat of the issue, I've quoted your conclusion. [quote] And again, this is why we're not doing it to Israeli killers. Israeli criminals are subject to Israeli criminal law. Palestinians aren't Israeli. Israel hasn't annexed them. They're Palestinians. An enemy nation[/quote] Thats a convenient excuse to try and justify the disparity of Israeli response towards these kind of attacks. You are grossly uninformed though, the family lives in Silwan, E. Jerusalem. If you knew any bit of history from the region you would have known Israel annexed E. Jerusalem and made it explicit in 1980 when they passed a law claiming the entirety of the city was theirs. That means the family lives in territory which Israel claims is 100% part of its state. Your only excuse now for your hypocritical stance will be to claim that their resident status is sufficient means to discriminate against them, my question is, are you shameless enough to attempt to argue on that point as well? It would be better to admit that its in fact a hypocritical practice that treats Jewish terrorism as a lesser crime than Arab terrorism, than trying to justify it further with legalese that attempts to divide Arabs and Jews in the "eternal and undivided capitol" I keep hearing so much about.

[QUOTE=Lamar;46329185]Stop prattling on and get the meat of the issue, I've quoted your conclusion. Thats a convenient excuse to try and justify the disparity of Israeli response towards these kind of attacks. You are grossly uninformed though, the family lives in Silwan, E. Jerusalem. If you knew any bit of history from the region you would have known Israel annexed E. Jerusalem and made it explicit in 1980 when they passed a law claiming the entirety of the city was theirs. That means the family lives in territory which Israel claims is 100% part of its state. Your only excuse now for your hypocritical stance will be to claim that their resident status is sufficient means to discriminate against them, my question is, are you shameless enough to attempt to argue on that point as well? It would be better to admit that its in fact a hypocritical practice that treats Jewish terrorism as a lesser crime than Arab terrorism, than trying to justify it further with legalese that attempts to divide Arabs and Jews in the "eternal and undivided capitol" I keep hearing so much about.[/QUOTE] Am I supposed to argue with that? Because you're obviously picking only the parts you like out of whatever I say, then decide in advance what my answer should be.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46329357]Am I supposed to argue with that? Because you're obviously picking only the parts you like out of whatever I say, then decide in advance what my answer should be.[/QUOTE] That was your conclusion.

[QUOTE=Lamar;46329369]That was your conclusion.[/QUOTE] Brilliant argument. Okay, fine. For the same reason suicide bomber houses were demolished during the 2nd Intifada, the Israeli supreme court allowed sealing the homes of Jerusalem Palestinians involved in terrorism in 2009. Says wikipedia:[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#History"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#History[/URL] [QUOTE]In 2009, after a string of fatal attacks by Palestinian against Israelis in Jerusalem, the Israeli High Court of Justice ruled in favor of the Israeli Defense Forces to seal with cement the family homes of [B]Palestinian terrorists[/B] as a deterrent against terrorism.[/QUOTE] So Israeli criminal law covers this specific case for Israeli citizens as well, provided they engage in terrorism. For the reason of DETERRENCE. I already explained twice why and who is being deterred in the case of Palestinian terrorists. If you think the same applies to the case of an insane Jewish psycho that tried to murder his own family, well, you're welcome to lay your case to the supreme court. But if it helps: [URL="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/186573"]here[/URL], the IDF demolishes houses of asshole Jews as well.

-snip-

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;46329528]I like how Israel is basically allowed to get away with what amounts to crimes against humanity and subtle genocide.[/QUOTE] If you read literally one post above you you can see why that's bullshit. Great job reading.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46329433]Brilliant argument. Okay, fine. For the same reason suicide bomber houses were demolished during the 2nd Intifada, the Israeli supreme court allowed sealing the homes of Jerusalem Palestinians involved in terrorism in 2009. Says wikipedia:[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#History"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#History[/URL][/quote] An Israeli Supreme Court ruling doesn't make something not immoral and hypocritical. [quote] So Israeli criminal law covers this specific case for Israeli citizens as well, provided they engage in terrorism. For the reason of DETERRENCE. I already explained twice why and who is being deterred in the case of Palestinian terrorists. If you think the same applies to the case of an insane Jewish psycho that tried to murder his own family, well, you're welcome to lay your case to the supreme court. [/quote] You are dishonest by suggesting that the kidnapping and murder of Kheider was carried out by one man, when in fact it was carried out by multiple perpetrators. I also sincerely doubt you would argue any Arab terrorist was suffering from insanity in a bid to argue that his or her family home shouldn't be demolished. [quote] But if it helps: [URL="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/186573"]here[/URL], the IDF demolishes houses of asshole Jews as well.[/QUOTE] The demolition of illegal settlement structures is a false equivalence and you know it. If you even read the article you provided you would have noticed that the provided explanation was that they were demolished for being "illegal" structures. [QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46329302]You on the other hand seem to completely ignore the fact that Palestine terrorism exists and it's widespread and it's harmful for both Muslims and Jews living in the region I don't know why you keep trying to make a point while you use double standards at the same time but keep trying Lamar[/QUOTE] I like how you edited the last part from "Ahmed" to "Lamar".

Atm the one thing that will make me happy about all this is Netanyahu being dragged out of his office at gunpoint by UN peacekeepers and forced to explain himself at a war crime tribunal

[QUOTE]Atm the one thing that will make me happy about all this is Netanyahu being dragged out of his office at gunpoint by UN peacekeepers and forced to explain himself at a war crime tribunal[/QUOTE] Your perception of the UN and its charter is certainly... interesting.

[QUOTE=Lamar;46329636]An Israeli Supreme Court ruling doesn't make something not immoral and hypocritical. You are dishonest by suggesting that the kidnapping and murder of Kheider was carried out by one man, when in fact it was carried out by multiple perpetrators. I also sincerely doubt you would argue any Arab terrorist was suffering from insanity in a bid to argue that his or her family home shouldn't be demolished. The demolition of illegal settlement structures is a false equivalence and you know it. If you even read the article you provided you would have noticed that the provided explanation was that they were demolished for being "illegal" structures. [/QUOTE] You are right about the murderers of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, but neglecting to mention that he is the primary suspect in the crime and that his accomplices are a couple of teenagers, all plea insanity [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_and_murder_of_Mohammed_Abu_Khdeir#Investigation_of_the_crime"]and[/URL] [QUOTE]Of three killers, two have a history of mental illness; both are on medication.[/QUOTE] I'm getting tired of repeating myself for you to misinterpret, so one last time and then you can keep arguing with the voices in your head: House demolitions only apply to Palestinian terrorists because they are meant to counter a specific Palestinian situation, where there are multiple factor that motivate potential terrorists. And while you keep ignoring this point, these factors don't exist in Israeli society. As vile as Israel's government is, it has gone out of its way to denounce the murder and murderers of Abu Khdeir, just like the rest of the Israeli public. If it turns out that there is at least a sub-section of Israeli society that supports acts of terrorism against Arabs, that fosters such terrorists and that rewards their families to the point Israelis are motivated to risk their lives for the sake of killing Arabs? Yeah, I'm totally in favor of blowing up their homes. And Tzipi Livni would probably do it, too. [QUOTE]The suspects were initially denied access to counsel because, according to Justice Minister Tzipi Livni, "that's what the law allows regarding terrorists."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46329831]You are right about the murderers of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, but neglecting to mention that he is the primary suspect in the crime and that his accomplices are a couple of teenagers, all plea insanity [/quote][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_and_murder_of_Mohammed_Abu_Khdeir#Investigation_of_the_crime"][/URL] Pleading insanity and having insanity are two different things. Al-Shaludi's mother claimed that her son was mentally ill and had recently seen a psychologist. If he were alive, I don't think that would fly in an Israeli court in though, because frankly I suspect an insanity plea is reserved for more of the privileged members of society. I always hear about white people getting insanity pleas when they shoot people up, but I've never heard of a brother getting off on one. [url]http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=734858[/url] [quote] I'm getting tired of repeating myself for you to misinterpret, so one last time and then you can keep arguing with the voices in your head: House demolitions only apply to Palestinian terrorists because they are meant to counter a specific Palestinian situation, where there are multiple factor that motivate potential terrorists. And while you keep ignoring this point, these factors don't exist in Israeli society. As vile as Israel's government is, it has gone out of its way to denounce the murder and murderers of Abu Khdeir, just like the rest of the Israeli public. If it turns out that there is at least a sub-section of Israeli society that supports acts of terrorism against Arabs, that fosters such terrorists and that rewards their families to the point Israelis are motivated to risk their lives for the sake of killing Arabs? Yeah, I'm totally in favor of blowing up their homes. And Tzipi Livni would probably do it, too.[/QUOTE] The Israeli army commissioned a study in 2005 to study the effectiveness of home demolitions as deterrence, they found no proof of it doing so. In fact, the study showed that demolitions only caused more animosity. [url]http://issuu.com/spaces.for.change/docs/demolishing_foundations_of_peace._june_2012/30[/url] The animosity is not surprising considering people will see it as a hypocritical practice, its not about deterrence. Its a method for Jews to punish Arabs with some flimsy context of supposed justification or necessity so they don't feel like they're acting "on the same level".

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46328153]Funny you should say that because Israel has given more land (Even more than their current territory) to neighbour arab countries to negotiate peace but those same (still) want their total destruction and elimination of Jews and they are still not satisfied [editline]25th October 2014[/editline] Non-radical Muslims and Jews leave peacefully and prosper inside Israel[/QUOTE] What is 1967

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46331262]The year that The Beatles released Magical Mystery Tour and Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band which are one of the most influential albums of all time Also oh the year that all neighbour arab nations tried to annihilate tiny little Israel and failed in just 6 days although this conflict still makes ground for some attacks even today[/QUOTE] AFAIK didn't Israel attack first in 1967?

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46331761]Egyptian forces were gathering in mass over to the Israeli border while being heavily armed so the conflict was already imminent and they avoided a surprise attack[/QUOTE] Jordan also joined afterwards even though Israel had no aggression towards them and even attempted to keep peace.

[QUOTE=Lamar;46330566][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_and_murder_of_Mohammed_Abu_Khdeir#Investigation_of_the_crime"][/URL] Pleading insanity and having insanity are two different things. Al-Shaludi's mother claimed that her son was mentally ill and had recently seen a psychologist. If he were alive, I don't think that would fly in an Israeli court in though, because frankly I suspect an insanity plea is reserved for more of the privileged members of society. I always hear about white people getting insanity pleas when they shoot people up, but I've never heard of a brother getting off on one. [url]http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=734858[/url] The Israeli army commissioned a study in 2005 to study the effectiveness of home demolitions as deterrence, they found no proof of it doing so. In fact, the study showed that demolitions only caused more animosity. [url]http://issuu.com/spaces.for.change/docs/demolishing_foundations_of_peace._june_2012/30[/url] The animosity is not surprising considering people will see it as a hypocritical practice, its not about deterrence. Its a method for Jews to punish Arabs with some flimsy context of supposed justification or necessity so they don't feel like they're acting "on the same level".[/QUOTE] I can't access the study from the link you provided, but googling around for it suggests it refers to [URL="http://www.punchng.com/news/jtfs-strategy-fuelling-sympathy-for-terrorist-groups-study/"]house demolitions in Nigeria[/URL] by the JTF. So, not the IDF, nothing to do with the Palestinians, different situation. As for insanity, spin it all you want but my point is still that house demolitions are meant to deter the people supporting the terrorist. If someone (or some ones) got around and murdered someone because they're crazy, or because they're crazy and racist, there's still no one else to deter. If OTOH someone goes out and kills people because his environment encouraged him to than home demolitions deter his environment, and deter him knowing what the effect of his actions will be. In the 2nd Intifada Palestinians would send their mentally handicapped, their clinically depressed, their confused teens, widows and rape victims to do suicide bombings. When their families had to worry about their own homes afterwards it became a less attractive way to get rid of these undesirables. Edit: You were probably referring to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/idf-panel-recommends-ending-punitive-house-demolitions-for-terrorists-families-1.150620"]this[/URL] study. In that case you are, of course, correct. I was not aware of that study. All I can say is that despite that study, the government was still able to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/court-orders-home-of-jerusalem-yeshiva-terrorist-sealed-off-1.267483"]convince the supreme court in 2009[/URL] that renewing the policy was justified, and that the government [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/in-west-bank-israel-revives-home-demolitions-to-stop-hamas/2014/07/22/c8197236-1dd7-4874-a3eb-f9438065644f_story.html"]still justifies[/URL] home demolitions with deterrence: [QUOTE]Israeli government officials say Palestinian militants are considered heroes by their communities, which shower them and their families with money and other forms of financial support. Such encouragement helps perpetuate a cycle of militancy, the officials say. “The defense community, the government and intelligence communities all believe that using demolitions can serve as a deterrent that can balance somewhat these inducements,” said a senior Israeli government official who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely. “It levels the playing field.”[/QUOTE] So the establishment, from decision makers to the courts still considers this effective despite the 2005 study. I can't say I'm as convinced as I was a couple of posts ago.

[QUOTE=RockmanYoshi;46331718]AFAIK didn't Israel attack first in 1967?[/QUOTE] iirc, what happened is that a lot of neighboring nations weren't too happy with a country primarily populated by Jews, so they set forth to destroy it. They failed miserably.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46333073]I can't access the study from the link you provided, but googling around for it suggests it refers to [URL="http://www.punchng.com/news/jtfs-strategy-fuelling-sympathy-for-terrorist-groups-study/"]house demolitions in Nigeria[/URL] by the JTF. So, not the IDF, nothing to do with the Palestinians, different situation. Edit: You were probably referring to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/idf-panel-recommends-ending-punitive-house-demolitions-for-terrorists-families-1.150620"]this[/URL] study. In that case you are, of course, correct. I was not aware of that study. All I can say is that despite that study, the government was still able to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/court-orders-home-of-jerusalem-yeshiva-terrorist-sealed-off-1.267483"]convince the supreme court in 2009[/URL] that renewing the policy was justified, and that the government [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/in-west-bank-israel-revives-home-demolitions-to-stop-hamas/2014/07/22/c8197236-1dd7-4874-a3eb-f9438065644f_story.html"]still justifies[/URL] home demolitions with deterrence: So the establishment, from decision makers to the courts still considers this effective despite the 2005 study. I can't say I'm as convinced as I was a couple of posts ago.[/QUOTE] [url]http://issuu.com/spaces.for.change/docs/demolishing_foundations_of_peace._june_2012/30[/url] This was my original link, I don't know how the other one came about, that was my mistake. But yes it refers to the 2005 study which found home demolitions have no proof of deterrence. Your justification relies on the Israeli govt. saying its justified despite that they have not provided any proof that it works, you're basically taking their word for it. So why are you still justifying it? You're just going to believe the Israeli establishment even though the only known study suggested otherwise? These home demolitions only enflame animosity and punish entire families. Israel keeps talking about how it doesn't differentiate between Arabs in Jews, yet this practice does. Can't you see why this practice would have the opposite intended effect like the study suggested?

[QUOTE=Lamar;46335799][url]http://issuu.com/spaces.for.change/docs/demolishing_foundations_of_peace._june_2012/30[/url] This was my original link, I don't know how the other one came about, that was my mistake. But yes it refers to the 2005 study which found home demolitions have no proof of deterrence. Your justification relies on the Israeli govt. saying its justified despite that they have not provided any proof that it works, you're basically taking their word for it. So why are you still justifying it? You're just going to believe the Israeli establishment even though the only known study suggested otherwise? These home demolitions only enflame animosity and punish entire families. Israel keeps talking about how it doesn't differentiate between Arabs in Jews, yet this practice does.[/QUOTE] You're conflating several issues here, as usual. First, please re-read the last line of my last post. Like I said, you're right. I am no longer as convinced as I was before of the effectiveness of home demolitions. Second, regardless of effectiveness, my original point was [U]why[/U] Israel was doing this, and the reason is still this: to counter the support system that fosters terrorists in Palestinian society. Israel thought it was effective during the 2nd Intifada, stopped thinking its working in 2005 when suicide bombings were no longer an issue and decided it's needed again in 2009. That's the reason. Is Israel correct? Again, I don't know. But its still not being down out of spite, as collective punishment or as a form of discrimination. Which brings us to the last point: Finally, while you keep hammering the point of discrimination, this isn't about Arabs being singled out as opposed to Jews. It's about Israelis vs. Palestinians (yes, including the Palestinians of east Jerusalem). The Palestinians have that support system for terrorists (see above: leaders, countrymen and family members praising and glorifying terrorists) that doesn't exist for Israeli terrorists. Nor, for the sake of argument, for any Israeli Arab involved in regular, non politically motivated violent crime in Israel. The hundreds of Israeli Arabs that kill other Israelis every year in everything from robbery to hit and runs don't get their homes demolished. House demolitions counter that one specific situation, and therefor do not apply to Israelis. If you can't accept that I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because I've repeated this like three times already.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;46336046]You're conflating several issues here, as usual. First, please re-read the last line of my last post. Like I said, you're right. I am no longer as convinced as I was before of the effectiveness of home demolitions. Second, regardless of effectiveness, my original point was [U]why[/U] Israel was doing this, and the reason is still this: to counter the support system that fosters terrorists in Palestinian society. Israel thought it was effective during the 2nd Intifada, stopped thinking its working in 2005 when suicide bombings were no longer an issue and decided it's needed again in 2009. That's the reason. Is Israel correct? Again, I don't know. But its still not being down out of spite, as collective punishment or as a form of discrimination. Which brings us to the last point: Finally, while you keep hammering the point of discrimination, this isn't about Arabs being singled out as opposed to Jews. It's about Israelis vs. Palestinians (yes, including the Palestinians of east Jerusalem). The Palestinians have that support system for terrorists (see above: leaders, countrymen and family members praising and glorifying terrorists) that doesn't exist for Israeli terrorists. Nor, for the sake of argument, for any Israeli Arab involved in regular, non politically motivated violent crime in Israel. The hundreds of Israeli Arabs that kill other Israelis every year in everything from robbery to hit and runs don't get their homes demolished. House demolitions counter that one specific situation, and therefor do not apply to Israelis. If you can't accept that I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because I've repeated this like three times already.[/QUOTE] I understand your argument, but I strongly feel you are seeking justification for a practice that punishes Arabs, and only Arabs. The only evidence on whether or not it works, suggests that they have the opposite intended affect. Its a barbaric practice and I have no doubts it would have still been exercised if the Al-Shaludi's were Israeli-citizens as well. One thing is for certain, these practices dispel the myth that Arabs and Jews are not treated differently in Israel's "eternal and undivided capitol."