Michigan Legislature raises minimum wage to $9.25 by 2018; future increases tied to inflation - Polidicks

[QUOTE]LANSING — Michigan's minimum wage would increase to $9.25 per hour under a compromise bill approved by the state Legislature on Tuesday.The bill gradually would raise the minimum wage from $7.40 to $9.25 per hour by 2018. The rate for tipped employees, which is currently $2.65, would be 38 percent of the regular minimum wage. That would amount to about $3.51 by 2018. The rates would change each year based on inflation or 3.5 percent, whichever is lower. The bill now heads to Gov. Rick Snyder, who said he plans to sign the bill Tuesday evening. [B]Update: Snyder signed the bill on Tuesday (May 27th) evening. [/B][/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2014/05/michigan_minimum_wage.html"]http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/in...imum_wage.html[/URL] Old Thread: [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1362332&highlight=minimum+wage"]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?...t=minimum+wage[/URL]

[quote]The rate for tipped employees, which is currently $2.65, would be 38 percent of the regular minimum wage.[/quote] Jesus, America. Your entire tipping system is just economic slavery.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44960275]Jesus, America. Your entire tipping system is just economic slavery.[/QUOTE] Before we get [I]this[/I] arguement on again, they get tips and most are paid more than standard minimum wage. Not saying that this is the ideal system, but it's not as horrible as some make it out to be.

[QUOTE=patq911;44960301]Before we get [I]this[/I] arguement on again, they get tips and most are paid more than standard minimum wage. Not saying that this is the ideal system, but it's not as horrible as some make it out to be.[/QUOTE] Except that it unfairly puts a burden on the customer to ensure that the employees can scrape by, and allows the employer to keep the rest of the federally required wage on the grounds that people donate money when their employees do good work. It turns your bank account into a big donation box, and ensures that your income is only earned through above and beyond work, rather than you making tips on top of the federal wage for doing the damn work they hired you to do. They should be paying you full minimum wage for every hour you spend there - getting given money by customers should not come out of that. Tips are supposed to be just that; something extra for you for going out of your way to be professional and courteous to the customer, not a subsidiary to let the employer save money while you keep making near minimum wage.

Oh man i used to deliver pizzas and we would get a split wage at $4.25. Could make just $100 in one day depending on the area you worked.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44960275]Jesus, America. Your entire tipping system is just economic slavery.[/QUOTE] You get paid the normal minimum wage if you don't make enough tips to cover what you would have made with minimum wage.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;44960570]You get paid the normal minimum wage if you don't make enough tips to cover what you would have made with minimum wage.[/QUOTE] Meaning you have to earn 3-6 dollars in tips per working hour to make minimum wage (which an employee who gets no tips earns anyways), and then AFTER that your tips start counting. Still pretty messed up.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44960275]Jesus, America. Your entire tipping system is just economic slavery.[/QUOTE] Every time a foreigner says this they demonstrate how they don't actually understand tipping.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44960894]Every time a foreigner says this they demonstrate how they don't actually understand tipping.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand tipping if you think the point of it is to allow the employer to pay their employees less (60-80% less) for doing good at their work.. Funny, coming from an American who is criticizing 'foreigners'.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44960894]Every time a foreigner says this they demonstrate how they don't actually understand tipping.[/QUOTE] Tipping is for good work. Our tipping system is just an optional paycheck that many are guilted into giving because we think wait staff can't survive on their base pay.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44960894]Every time a foreigner says this they demonstrate how they don't actually understand tipping.[/QUOTE] My tipping should be a bonus for doing your job well, not a bare minimum to survive while your boss rakes in the dosh.

Sweet. As soon as I graduate college minimum wage will be $9.25.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44960894]Every time a foreigner says this they demonstrate how they don't actually understand tipping.[/QUOTE] I thought tipping was supposed to be a bonus for doing your job well, not almost 2/3s of someone's wages.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44960275]Jesus, America. Your entire tipping system is just economic slavery.[/QUOTE] Ignorance ahoy! People make livings off of being a waiter/waitress. Even the lowest level wait style job pays incredibly well compared to other jobs of the same education level. It's not odd to make $100+ a night in tips when working in a medium level restaurant. [editline]31st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;44961092]I thought tipping was supposed to be a bonus for doing your job well, not almost 2/3s of someone's wages.[/QUOTE] You thought wrong. I've never met a person on wait staff who would support trading tips for a set wage. It would essentially confirm lower overall wages for anyone who goes out of their way to be a good server.

foreigners' opinions seem to be that the tipping system is literally worse than the holocaust, the cultural revolution, and a stubbed toe combined.

Tipping is a double edged sword, because on one hand it can be incredibly effective. My mother paid for her bachelor's and master's degree through waitressing a couple of job, and at a good restaurant on a good day you can be walking home with 100$ or more in your pocket most days of the week. On the other hand, the chances of that happening regularly are relatively low, and the restaurant business is corrupt as fuck, usually taking upwards of 50% of employee tips, not reimbursing to min. wage when they don't meet it through tips (which is the law, but mostly unenforced), and providing shitty situations and work environments. It's more frequent in a non-corporate restaurant that you'll be walking home with just above minimum wage on any given day. Either way, tipping is generally more beneficial than a set wage, but at the same time, it's not really tipping. You aren't giving the worker a tip, you're paying them for their work. Which is a easy way for the employer to not have to have the burden of paying their employees and relying on customers. The best method would be to provide a set minimum wage and then add a tip on top of it.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44960275]Jesus, America. Your entire tipping system is just economic slavery.[/QUOTE] lol a good waiter could make the entire paycheck I earn at Dairy Queen every week with a couple busy weekend nights at a decent restaurant with tips alone. I'm sure that most wouldn't like to see it changed much.

[QUOTE=JXZ;44961367]foreigners' opinions seem to be that the tipping system is literally worse than the holocaust, the cultural revolution, and a stubbed toe combined.[/QUOTE] Your opinion seems to be that tipping is literally better than sex, ecstacy and chocolate combined. See, exaggerating is pointless. The tipping system objectively fucking sucks.

Also, reading the bill, the first raise will by September 1st of this year, to $8.15, but then won't raise again until Jan. 1 of 2016.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;44961383]lol a good waiter could make the entire paycheck I earn at Dairy Queen every week with a couple busy weekend nights at a decent restaurant with tips alone. I'm sure that most wouldn't like to see it changed much.[/QUOTE] Cool, in some scenarios it can be effective. It can also fucking suck and can mean absolutely unnecessary poverty. The whole point of it is that employers don't have to pay people as much.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;44961383]lol a good waiter could make the entire paycheck I earn at Dairy Queen every week with a couple busy weekend nights at a decent restaurant with tips alone. I'm sure that most wouldn't like to see it changed much.[/QUOTE] You think they wouldn't want it changed so that the minimum they are paid by the company they work for is [I]minimum [/I]wage? I'm sure they would protest in the streets if their tips actually counted for something other than covering for the difference of what their bosses can legally skip out on.

Yes, restaurants do compensate servers if they don't make minimum wage. Trouble is, it's [i]averaged out[/i], meaning that if an employee makes shitty tips for 3 days but on the fourth and fifth day they have good tips, if it averages out that week to above minimum wage, then too bad, you worked for 2.65 an hour for three days. Can a waiter make good money? Yes, but they have to work good shifts. Unless the restaurant they work at is insanely popular, then there will be much slower shifts that still need to get worked. Not to mention there's plenty of times where servers have to do grunt work that they still get paid 2.65 an hour for. Filling shakers, clearing tables, stocking kitchen supplies, etc. THAT'S what's wrong with the system. It's random. How much a server makes depends almost entirely on the shift and the customer. It leads to abusing the system. Servers will memorize who gives good tips and then try to get those customers, and they try to pawn off bad customers to other servers. A solid minimum wage that is enforced for servers would make it so that servers give equal quality service to everybody, not just those that tip well. The current merit based system doesn't work because everybody has different standards for what is considered "good service", as well as what is considered "good tipping". Just because some servers make lots of money doesn't mean they all do.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;44961408]Cool, in some scenarios it can be effective. It can also fucking suck and can mean absolutely unnecessary poverty.[/QUOTE] I'm one of those radicals who supports workers collectivizing their workplace and in absence of that raising the minimum wage to 21$/hr. But I can safely say, having both my mother and my aunt spending most of their lives working in serving, a combined 40 years or more, and relying on that income myself throughout my childhood, that the tipping system, while hardly ideal, is better than paying them minimum wage for now because it does provide more for most people most of the time. For practical purposes only, the tip system is better than the set minimum wage as it stands now. And so long as the law guaranteeing that the employer will provide the minimum wage if not made in tips is enforce (which it often isn't), then you're still putting a server as the same level as any other low-wage worker.

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;44961427]You think they wouldn't want it changed so that the minimum they are paid by the company they work for is [I]minimum [/I]wage? I'm sure they would protest in the streets if their tips actually counted for something other than covering for the difference of what their bosses can legally skip out on.[/QUOTE] Because if tips aren't "required", people are going to tip significantly less or not at all. That $70-$100 they walk home with each day is suddenly reduced to just $60-$70.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44961644]Because if tips aren't "required", people are going to tip significantly less or not at all. That $70-$100 they walk home with each day is suddenly reduced to just $60-$70.[/QUOTE] Tips are never required - as far as I know - except in very 'high end' restaurants or if a really large group comes in. The customer either tips because they want to, or because they feel pressured to by the employee's low wages. I don't think paying servers a proper minimum wage would result in them being tipped so much less that they would end up making less than they would working ~$2 an hour with tips.

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;44961763]Tips are never required - as far as I know - except in very 'high end' restaurants or if a really large group comes in. The customer either tips because they want to, or because they feel pressured to by the employee's low wages. I don't think paying servers a proper minimum wage would result in them being tipped so much less that they would end up making less than they would working ~$2 an hour with tips.[/QUOTE] "Others express fear that eliminating the tip credit would result in fewer tips.[12] In Massachusetts, where the tipped minimum wage is $2.63, the average income of tipped waiters and waitresses is $13.13. In Washington State, where the minimum wage for wait staff is $9.19, the average wage is $13.00 after gratuity." - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States[/url] There's absolutely no guarantee that upping the hourly wage would cause higher overall wages. All it would do is cause worse servers to get paid more and better servers to get paid less.

[QUOTE=sgman91;44962831]"Others express fear that eliminating the tip credit would result in fewer tips.[12] In Massachusetts, where the tipped minimum wage is $2.63, the average income of tipped waiters and waitresses is $13.13. In Washington State, where the minimum wage for wait staff is $9.19, the average wage is $13.00 after gratuity." - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States[/url] There's absolutely no guarantee that upping the hourly wage would cause higher overall wages. All it would do is cause worse servers to get paid more and better servers to get paid less.[/QUOTE] All in all, nobody should be being paid less than they can live on, wouldn't you agree? Also, there is no guarantee that upping the hourly wage would be detrimental in any way.

a job that revolves COMPLETELY around customer service from beginning to end being determined with how well that person can complete said service how bizarre

[QUOTE=sgman91;44962831]"Others express fear that eliminating the tip credit would result in fewer tips.[12] In Massachusetts, where the tipped minimum wage is $2.63, the average income of tipped waiters and waitresses is $13.13. In Washington State, where the minimum wage for wait staff is $9.19, the average wage is $13.00 after gratuity." - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States[/url] There's absolutely no guarantee that upping the hourly wage would cause higher overall wages. All it would do is cause worse servers to get paid more and better servers to get paid less.[/QUOTE] Think about it though. If you make it the same minimum wage for everyone, those who are in work where they rely on tips would definitely get less tips since the customers wouldn't feel like they've got to tip. But they'd still get some tips so they'd still be earning above minimum wage. The only difference would be that they've got security that they're never ever going to get less than minimum wage and the many many people who weren't getting anywhere near enough to live on because they're not getting enough tips, don't have to worry. [editline]1st June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=FFStudios;44963175]a job that revolves COMPLETELY around customer service from beginning to end being determined with how well that person can complete said service how bizarre[/QUOTE] Everyone's got to eat. Even people who are shit at their jobs need to put food on the table somehow.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44961450']I'm one of those radicals who supports workers collectivizing their workplace and in absence of that raising the minimum wage to 21$/hr. But I can safely say, having both my mother and my aunt spending most of their lives working in serving, a combined 40 years or more, and relying on that income myself throughout my childhood, that the tipping system, while hardly ideal, is better than paying them minimum wage for now because it does provide more for most people most of the time. For practical purposes only, the tip system is better than the set minimum wage as it stands now. And so long as the law guaranteeing that the employer will provide the minimum wage if not made in tips is enforce (which it often isn't), then you're still putting a server as the same level as any other low-wage worker.[/QUOTE] $21/hr holy shit. I'm pretty sure than many waiters and waitresses here don't earn that and yet we have a higher cost of living and a socially acceptable minimum wage. Eg I get paid $17/hr to pack shelves and that's sufficient for me as someone who lives by myself.