Obama and NASA: He Did The Right Thing || Or: The Future of Manned Spaceflight
126 replies, posted
[B]But... How can that be? I mean, he lowered NASA's budget, right?[/B]
No, actually, he didn't. I keep hearing this a lot. Actually, he increased NASA's budget. Little, yes, but it was an increase. He also directed NASA's funds towards research instead of rocketry (I know this doesn't sound good, but bear with me for a moment).
[B]He cancelled Ares and Constellation! He killed America's future in space![/B]
I'll get to Ares in a sec, for now I'll talk about Constellation.
The program was, well, not good. I won't say shit because that would be blaming NASA, and NASA is in now way to be blamed. Blame the incessant budget cuts (The International Space Station would have a sci-fi-esque rotating ring habitat if it weren't for budget cuts, mind you) and the politics, not to mention ignorant congressmen and presidents like George Bush who ignored NASA and didn't cancel Constellation.
The program, at the current rate, was going to cost tens of billions of dollars (From the governement), and suck out so much money from the rest of NASA that ALL other research programs would have been cancelled. And the worst part is that it would've sent someone to the Moon, and back, at an incredible cost, and it the space program would've ended there. Obama did the right thing.
[B]But Ares was designed to go straight to the Moon![/B]
No, this is a common misconception. Ares was just designed to go into Low Earth Orbit, and, provided with enough propellant, to Geosynchronius Orbit. I'll cover that in the next point.
[B]So what was so bad about Ares?[/B]
For reference, the Space Shuttle carries 25 tonnes into Orbit at 1 billion dollars per launch. Ares would've carried less cargo. 12 tonnes to be precise (Note: This is from the official statement from Elon Musk, CEO of SpaceX. This and the Wikipedia article differ. I have decided to trust Elon, but Ares I's cargo capacity is still up the air). To complete it, it would've cost 50 billion. And that's just the rocket. Not the whole of the program.
[B]So Ares and Constellation were crap?[/B]
No, but they were inferior to previous projects and current alternatives.
[B]Why were they approved if they were inferior?[/B]
Why didn't NASA build the Sea Dragon, which could carry 22 times more than the space shuttle at a low cost and was feasible in the 60's and 70's? Why didn't they build the Convair NEXUS, which could carry 1000 tonnes into orbit (40 times more than the Shuttle) at low cost? I don't work at NASA, I won't pretend to know how it goes between them scientists and the congressmen.
[B]What did Obama do that was so good?[/B]
He did what has characterized America. He gave it over to the corporations. NASA will from now own hammer tech for SpaceX, Bigelow Aerospace, Virgin Galactic, et al.
Private corporations have proven that they can do much more than NASA at a low cost. SpaceShipTwo cost less than 40 billion from design to launch, and SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket cost a few million and can carry as much as Ares. Take that, NASA.
[B]So corporations will rule off-world colonies?[/B]
Probably. Consider it Space Feudalism.
[B]Fuck yeah![/B]
Fuck yeah indeed.
[B]THE FUTURE:[/B]
SpaceX's Falcon 9 was launched a few weeks ago. I was there. Not *there there*, but there, watching a stream with my bros from 4chan's /sci/. That day marked the beginning of the real Space Age.
Falcon 9 can carry 12 tonnes into orbit. Elon Musk is the Howard Hughes of our generation, and he is currently rolling in money because of th ehuge market for getting shit into orbit. The heavy version of Falcon 9, with booster strap-ons, can carry as much as the Space Shuttle. And the rocket is so small, so goddamn small I couldn't believe it...
SpaceX is already building the Dragon, a capsule that can take people and cargo to the International Space Station. I thought it would take years to develop. Nope. They will finish it, test launch it, and deliver the first science racks to the space station this year. NASA and SpaceX are already working on a super-heavy-lift rocket, which are the best ways of getting into space for the time being, until Space Elevators and Spaceplanes take over.
Bigelow Aerospace already has space hotels, now they need a way to getthem up there. SpaceX will do that. They are, and I quote, "A corporation will lunar ambitions... And mars ambitions too." They want to put a space station between Earth and the Sun, and a colony on the Moon.
And who knows, reality has a weird way of sneaking up on us. Maybe the future is closer than we think.
Sources, for all you picky guys:
[url]http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20100415[/url]
[url]http://www.spacex.com/falcon9_heavy.php[/url]
[url]http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigelow_Aerospace[/url]
All the links in this page: [url]http://www.planetary.org/programs/projects/advocacy_and_education/space_advocacy/2011_advocacy.html[/url]
Well, people keep complaining about Obama and NASA. Yet they don't think that we have sometimes bigger issues at home that might need the money.
Also, privatizing space travel is the only way things will get done.
[QUOTE=MRTW113;22649838]Well, people keep complaining about Obama and NASA. Yet they don't think that we have sometimes bigger issues at home that might need the money.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.nenasili.cz/files/tiny_mce/Image/090209-US-budget-1.jpg[/IMG]
I'm pretty sure they could borrow some cash from the DoD.
It's hugely interesting to investigate space, but I wish we'd wait a little longer to try and go farther until we perfect what we're trying.
[QUOTE=MRTW113;22649838]Well, people keep complaining about Obama and NASA. Yet they don't think that we have sometimes bigger issues at home that might need the money.[/QUOTE]
The reason why people complain is because the US military is given absolutely massive amounts of cash, to the point where the defense secretary himself is telling congress to stop pouring so much into the army. When people percieve that Obama is cutting the budget of NASA (which, as the OP states, isn't the case), they will complain that the money is being taken from the wrong place.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;22649869][IMG]http://www.nenasili.cz/files/tiny_mce/Image/090209-US-budget-1.jpg[/IMG]
I'm pretty sure they could borrow some cash from the DoD.[/QUOTE]
Surely, not even the US needs defending [b]that[/b] much
I'm seriously happy that I live in this timeline.
Fuck yeah Earth!
Communists lose.
Again.
[editline]07:12AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=danharibo;22649945]Surely, not even the US needs defending [b]that[/b] much[/QUOTE]
Without such large spending, our army would never be able to compete with anything. Countries like Russia which has conscription and China which has large numbers but terrible troop quality don't need to spend so much on their military. If you think that the soldiers are "cannon fodder" now, they'd be double that if you cut the defense budget.
i hated Obama at first for cancelling Ares, but after reading this I can like him again :D This thread is very helpful
Someone needs to make a course in politics or something designed for scientists that gives scientists a better grip on politics so they have a fighting chance in getting shit done
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;22649813]Bigelow Aerospace already has space hotels, now they need a way to getthem up there.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I had no idea that this was possible in the near future.
Once this is marketed, how much would it cost to take a trip into space?
Bah. Corporations. I do hope that these CEOs and officers have the good of humanity and the progression of technology in mind, rather than a quick buck. We're putting the survival of our species in the hands of possibly greedy people.
Oh, and by the way, this is what Bigelow Aerospace is going to do:
[IMG]http://i.space.com/images/bigelow-base-2-100414-02.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.space.com/images/bigelow-base-1-100414-02.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.space.com/images/bigelow-base-3-100414-02.jpg[/IMG]
Didn't Obama also promise a deep-space spacecraft, changing the orbit of an asteroid to prove that we can defend ourselves from asteroids, and a trip to Mars in the next couple of decades?
[QUOTE=ASmellyOgre;22650222]Didn't Obama also promise a deep-space spacecraft, changing the orbit of an asteroid to prove that we can defend ourselves from asteroids, and a trip to Mars in the next couple of decades?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he did.
Another good decision, considering asteroids have a SHITFUCKLOAD of resources. The next step is convincing people that we can put them in Earth orbit without fucking shit up.
bigelow aerospace is seriously fucking awesome
Bigelow Aerospace's spacecraft are inflatable, too. They're badass.
[QUOTE=SolidMoos;22650200]Wow, I had no idea that this was possible in the near future.
Once this is marketed, how much would it cost to take a trip into space?[/QUOTE]
A lot considering the people will have to be sent by rocket.
That is, using the official means of transporation. If you want to get risky, then buy one of SpaceX's Falcon-1 rockets. Those can carry 500 kilograms into space, that's enough for you, a space suit, and a small life support system, plus a bag full of sammiches and some thrusters.
And a Texas Instruments because you'll have to do the orbital mathematics to get in position with the station :P
So if you use that rocket, and they allow you to (Which they won't unless you pay A LOT), it will cost six million, plus whatever the equipment you will need costs.
[QUOTE=ASmellyOgre;22650237]Bigelow Aerospace's spacecraft are inflatable, too. They're badass.[/QUOTE]
didn't they also have plans for inflatable moon rovers?
[QUOTE=wonkadonk;22650274]didn't they also have plans for inflatable moon rovers?[/QUOTE]
In the future, everything will be inflatable? :geno:
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;22650295]In the future, everything will be inflatable? :geno:[/QUOTE]
that's a future I can believe in!
It's interesting how so many people thought the new millenium would be an era of change and improvement. Most expected everything to be solved in the first year, others expected the world to end then. Both were terribly disappointed.
But now, just a mere ten years into this new millenium, we are finally seeing the beginnings of a new era.
:unsmith:
i wonder if anyone is gonna attempt to win that google lunar x-prize thing
Another cool thing going on with corporations in space is Orbital Outfitters. This company is making suits to survive in space.
This is the suborbital version, The Industrial Suborbital Spacesuit (IS3). It is pressurized with 30 minutes of air and a parachute.
[img]http://www.orbitaloutfitters.com/media/IS3mainsuitphoto300pw.gif[/img]
This, however, is the masterpiece:
[img]http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/spacedivers_b_enlrg.jpg[/img]
What you're looking at is an annotated sketch of a suit designed to get you from orbit to the ground with no spacecraft. Real orbital drops with no pods. [url=http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2007-06/high-dive]Read about it here.[/url]
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;22649869][IMG]http://www.nenasili.cz/files/tiny_mce/Image/090209-US-budget-1.jpg[/IMG]
I'm pretty sure they could borrow some cash from the DoD.[/QUOTE]
No, actually what they need to do is completely merge NASA and the US military.
space tanks,
SPACE TANKS
I'm not really sure if privatizing space is...good.
It would be great if a private corporation could put some funds up to run a Mars Direct program, seeing as how the government certainly isn't going to do that now.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22650494]I'm not really sure if privatizing space is...good.[/QUOTE]
Why wouldn't it be a good idea?
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22650494]I'm not really sure if privatizing space is...good.[/QUOTE]
I don't see anything that could go wrong.
Well...
[IMG]http://blog.avtr.com/.a/6a0120a5d82bb3970c0120a5d4317b970b-800wi[/IMG]
[QUOTE=wonkadonk;22650512]Why wouldn't it be a good idea?[/QUOTE]
Well that's why I'm not sure.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.