Meanwhile in Bulgaria refugees are getting 500 euros monthly per person , while our minimum wage is 250 euros.
Even though I'm pretty much on the pro-refugee side, this is the biggest problem with how things have turned out. The EU and most of the countries just didn't have a plan, when they really should have began talking about this when the Syrian civil war began threatening to leak so many people.
You can take a million refugees and be fine, but if you haven't figured out the logistics fully expect problems.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51479237]Even though I'm pretty much on the pro-refugee side, this is the biggest problem with how things have turned out. The EU and most of the countries just didn't have a plan, when they really should have began talking about this when the Syrian civil war began threatening to leak so many people.
You can take a million refugees and be fine, but if you haven't figured out the logistics fully expect problems.[/QUOTE]
I like how the Swedish government actually considered tent camps for a while. They came to their senses and realised that wasn't viable when the winter comes.
They're so incredibly ungrateful, they get so much for free and show such disdain for the ones giving them all. You are not dying in a war, which you allegedly said you fled from, so start showing some appreciation. If Europe is to be Europe, they need to be removed when the war is over, and even before it is over. All of them.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51479415]They're so incredibly ungrateful, they get so much for free and show such disdain for the ones giving them all. You are not dying in a war, which you allegedly said you fled from, so start showing some appreciation. If Europe is to be Europe, they need to be removed when the war is over, and even before it is over. All of them.[/QUOTE]
So when the war is eventually over and all the families that are displaced have already begun building a new home in Europe, you want to kick them out to a place that is virtually destroyed/unstable?
[QUOTE=Firespray;51479433]So when the war is eventually over and all the families that are displaced have already begun building a new home in Europe, you want to kick them out to a place that is virtually destroyed/unstable?[/QUOTE]
The world will give them money to rebuild.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51479514]You fucking bet.[/QUOTE]
Yeah maybe not, probably only the west will help.
One of my classes in college had a student present his story to us at the beginning of the refugee crisis.
I can't remember which African country he was from, but he mentioned he had to walk miles for weeks to only end up in a tent city refugee camp after his home was burned down by a radical group. Where he only ate rice for like 2-3 years everyday, had to deal with all the infrastructure problems (lack of cleanliness/openness) of the tent city, and they were still close to the conflict.
So when I see refugees complain about staying at one of the nicest parks in a decommissioned airport, get way more amenities than any typical refugee center, and be located in one of the greatest (imo) cities; they can honestly go fuck off and make room for people who actually experienced war.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51479609]One of my classes in college had a student present his story to us at the beginning of the refugee crisis.
I can't remember which African country he was from, but he mentioned he had to walk miles for weeks to only end up in a tent city refugee camp after his home was burned down by a radical group. Where he only ate rice for like 2-3 years everyday, had to deal with all the infrastructure problems (lack of cleanliness/openness) of the tent city, and they were still close to the conflict.
So when I see refugees complain about staying at one of the nicest parks in a decommissioned airport, get way more amenities than any typical refugee center, and be located in one of the greatest (imo) cities; they can honestly go fuck off and make room for people who actually experienced war.[/QUOTE]
Thing is, the majority coming here under refugee status are not refugees and not even syrians. They're economic luxury migrants, far from resembling anything close to your classmate. That is why they are so entitled and ungrateful, that plus "dirty kafirs".
This is what happens when they think the west is living the life they see on TV or in the movies, they become disappointed when it turns out not to be true.
Also, once again, where are the women and children, still seeing that majority men.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51479731]This is what happens when they think the west is living the life they see on TV or in the movies, they become disappointed when it turns out not to be true.
Also, once again, where are the women and children, still seeing that majority men.[/QUOTE]
We get many full bearded and balding children that arrive though.
It's a damn shame that there's such a lack of a plan to the point where a significant proportion aren't truly refugees.
So is it that the setup in Goslar is more of an ideal setup, and most of the rest of Germany seems to leave refugees hanging while waiting to be submitted/approved for integration? That's my impression from the segment. I mean it makes sense to give people an overview of the culture so that it eases integration some. But for sure the bigger problem seems to be what does the government do with all the people 1-3 years down the line, when the overcrowding issues worsen? Will there be any plan to eventually send refugees back, in a supportive way?
I'm surprised it isn't as bad an issue here in the USA. Maybe it's in part because we are simply a huge country, but knowing our government, Germany probably supports refugees much better!
[QUOTE=NO ONE;51480070]So is it that the setup in Goslar is more of an ideal setup, and most of the rest of Germany seems to leave refugees hanging while waiting to be submitted/approved for integration? That's my impression from the segment. I mean it makes sense to give people an overview of the culture so that it eases integration some. But for sure the bigger problem seems to be what does the government do with all the people 1-3 years down the line, when the overcrowding issues worsen? Will there be any plan to eventually send refugees back, in a supportive way?
I'm surprised it isn't as bad an issue here in the USA. Maybe it's in part because we are simply a huge country, but knowing our government, Germany probably supports refugees much better![/QUOTE]
It [I]really[/I] depends on the Bundesland they end up in, to my knowledge.
As you probably know, Germany is a federal country too (but definitely more centralised than the US), so these policies, especially the implementation details, very much depend on which party is strongest where.
There are rather large political differences between some of them, so both the efficiency of the application process and integration measures and even whether the government aims to make the whole situation as efficient or as inhospitable as possible vary.
Arabic speaker here. This video smells of bullshit to me. At 1:30, the guy who is speaking English does not have an Arabic accent let alone a Syrian one. Unless he is of some kind of ethnic minority (like Kurdish which is doubtful since his name is supposedly Khaled), he isn't Arab. The more blatant example is at 2:10. This guy is speaking Arabic with an Egyptian accent (and looks quite Egyptian). He isn't even Syrian let alone a Syrian refugee - no one in Syria speaks like that.
[QUOTE=agentalexandre;51480265]Arabic speaker here. This video smells of bullshit to me. At 1:30, the guy who is speaking English does not have an Arabic accent let alone a Syrian one. Unless he is of some kind of ethnic minority (like Kurdish which is doubtful since his name is supposedly Khaled), he isn't Arab. The more blatant example is at 2:10. This guy is speaking Arabic with an Egyptian accent (and looks quite Egyptian). He isn't even Syrian let alone a Syrian refugee - no one in Syria speaks like that.[/QUOTE]
Well, we have people who analyse speech to figure out where to deport people, if their origin is unknown. A similar thing could be done here to separate likely refugees and those who are obviously not. With less refugees being accepted in Europe now, every spot is important for actual refugees to get. Let's not waste those on people trying to through by dishonest means. That only harms the people we are trying to help.
[QUOTE=agentalexandre;51480265]Arabic speaker here. This video smells of bullshit to me. At 1:30, the guy who is speaking English does not have an Arabic accent let alone a Syrian one. Unless he is of some kind of ethnic minority (like Kurdish which is doubtful since his name is supposedly Khaled), he isn't Arab. The more blatant example is at 2:10. This guy is speaking Arabic with an Egyptian accent (and looks quite Egyptian). He isn't even Syrian let alone a Syrian refugee - no one in Syria speaks like that.[/QUOTE]
Well Vice is typically left leaning so I don't think they are trying to purposely bullshit people into hating refugees.
My only other guess is that those people are from another region and not Syrian, but I have no idea what accents/dialects sound like. It is one of the main critiques that other people are getting in for the economic incentive.
Just my two cents on your point.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51480441]Well Vice is typically left leaning so I don't think they are trying to purposely bullshit people into hating refugees.
My only other guess is that those people are from another region and not Syrian, but I have no idea what accents/dialects sound like. It is one of the main critiques that other people are getting in for the economic incentive.
Just my two cents on your point.[/QUOTE]
My point about the bullshit is that Vice seems to be passing certain people off as Syrian refugees because the conditions some of them face (such as the homeless 'egyptian' guy) are in line with the narrative they wish to push (that people are not treating Syrian refugees well enough). In the video we don't actually see any hard concrete evidence of poor living conditions for Syrian refugees and it is only spoken about by the first person they interview (who is definitely Syrian). They are lumping economic migrants and refugees of other crises together to make the situation around the Syrian refugees seem worse than it may actually be (I actually think it's quite bad already, I just don't appreciate the dishonesty from Vice).
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51479415]They're so incredibly ungrateful, they get so much for free and show such disdain for the ones giving them all. You are not dying in a war, which you allegedly said you fled from, so start showing some appreciation. If Europe is to be Europe, they need to be removed when the war is over, and even before it is over. All of them.[/QUOTE]
So because they aren't born here, they deserve less than we do. I'm not talking about permanent asylum, I'm talking about basic human necessities.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51479415]They're so incredibly ungrateful, they get so much for free and show such disdain for the ones giving them all. You are not dying in a war, which you allegedly said you fled from, so start showing some appreciation. If Europe is to be Europe, they need to be removed when the war is over, and even before it is over. All of them.[/QUOTE]
"If Europe is to be Europe"? Can you explain what you mean by that?
[QUOTE=BlackBirdNL;51480667]So because they aren't born here, they deserve less than we do. I'm not talking about permanent asylum, I'm talking about basic human necessities.[/QUOTE]
Is it alien to think the most ethical choice of a country's government is to provide and protect it's citizens before others?
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51479415]Snip-O[/QUOTE]
Australia implemented a similar idea in the form of temporary protection visa's because we had alot of people coming from countries at war at the time.
Essentially, It's short term and once your war is over you'll be sent back.
Why does someone fleeing as a refugee lose the right to take issue with their conditions? This is such a common theme for people to bring up, but how many of these refugees are truly ungrateful? They might take issue with certain aspects of their new home, but I'm sure as a whole they're glad as fuck to be out of where they were. I have no doubt that there are individuals that are ungrateful assholes, but those are just assholes. Not really fair, and a huge fallacy, to apply that behavior as an example of what they all think and feel as a collective.
And why does that line get drawn, where refugees aren't allowed to complain? When do they get that back? For many of them, they probably want to get out of the country they were in and return to some semblance of normalcy: and instead, they find themselves as outcasts in a new country with a populace that isn't very happy with their presence. Which probably is more than a little bit of a buzzkill.
[editline]edit[/editline]
Watching the video more, many of them complain that there is no good housing, no good food, and [I]no good work[/I]
Temporary accommodations kinda suck. You don't really have any privacy, the condition of the housing can be less than great, and it seems like human nature to want to get a dwelling that you've earned and can call your home. Feeding a sudden population like this can be really tough, especially since many of them can't find work. And its pretty clear they'd like to get a job, but have been unable to do so.
It doesn't even seem they're complaining. Just stating how it is for them, right now.
[QUOTE=paindoc;51481665]Why does someone fleeing as a refugee lose the right to take issue with their conditions? This is such a common theme for people to bring up, but how many of these refugees are truly ungrateful? They might take issue with certain aspects of their new home, but I'm sure as a whole they're glad as fuck to be out of where they were. I have no doubt that there are individuals that are ungrateful assholes, but those are just assholes. Not really fair, and a huge fallacy, to apply that behavior as an example of what they all think and feel as a collective.
And why does that line get drawn, where refugees aren't allowed to complain? When do they get that back? For many of them, they probably want to get out of the country they were in and return to some semblance of normalcy: and instead, they find themselves as outcasts in a new country with a populace that isn't very happy with their presence. Which probably is more than a little bit of a buzzkill.
[editline]edit[/editline]
Watching the video more, many of them complain that there is no good housing, no good food, and [I]no good work[/I]
Temporary accommodations kinda suck. You don't really have any privacy, the condition of the housing can be less than great, and it seems like human nature to want to get a dwelling that you've earned and can call your home. Feeding a sudden population like this can be really tough, especially since many of them can't find work. And its pretty clear they'd like to get a job, but have been unable to do so.
It doesn't even seem they're complaining. Just stating how it is for them, right now.[/QUOTE]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWIqtLO9B4c[/media]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td3VNr7ZJvs[/media]
Because when you get people like in this video, you start to wonder if they were even actually in a war zone affecting them or just people who saw it as a opportunity for relaxed immigration.
The point of refugee sites is to largely keep people safe and housed so that when a conflict ends they can be returned. Any of these people who expected a entire flat to themselves, jobs, or amenities like good wifi/personal TVs were either deluded or duped.
They can complain all they want, but if these people knew what a typical refugee camp are actually like near conflict zones; They would shut the fuck up about alot of things.
There are refugees that deserve a safe environment, but this is why citizens get upset.
[editline]5th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=agentalexandre;51480542]My point about the bullshit is that Vice seems to be passing certain people off as Syrian refugees because the conditions some of them face (such as the homeless 'egyptian' guy) are in line with the narrative they wish to push (that people are not treating Syrian refugees well enough). In the video we don't actually see any hard concrete evidence of poor living conditions for Syrian refugees and it is only spoken about by the first person they interview (who is definitely Syrian). They are lumping economic migrants and refugees of other crises together to make the situation around the Syrian refugees seem worse than it may actually be (I actually think it's quite bad already, I just don't appreciate the dishonesty from Vice).[/QUOTE]
That's what I also thought.
[QUOTE=paindoc;51481665]Why does someone fleeing as a refugee lose the right to take issue with their conditions? This is such a common theme for people to bring up, but how many of these refugees are truly ungrateful? They might take issue with certain aspects of their new home, but I'm sure as a whole they're glad as fuck to be out of where they were. I have no doubt that there are individuals that are ungrateful assholes, but those are just assholes. Not really fair, and a huge fallacy, to apply that behavior as an example of what they all think and feel as a collective.
And why does that line get drawn, where refugees aren't allowed to complain? When do they get that back? For many of them, they probably want to get out of the country they were in and return to some semblance of normalcy: and instead, they find themselves as outcasts in a new country with a populace that isn't very happy with their presence. Which probably is more than a little bit of a buzzkill.
[editline]edit[/editline]
Watching the video more, many of them complain that there is no good housing, no good food, and [I]no good work[/I]
Temporary accommodations kinda suck. You don't really have any privacy, the condition of the housing can be less than great, and it seems like human nature to want to get a dwelling that you've earned and can call your home. Feeding a sudden population like this can be really tough, especially since many of them can't find work. And its pretty clear they'd like to get a job, but have been unable to do so.
It doesn't even seem they're complaining. Just stating how it is for them, right now.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you're saying, however....
There's a difference between getting shelter and safety after fearing for your lives and those of your family members, and getting shelter after hoping to get a more luxurious life.
I don't know, but if i were to fear for my own life and those of my children (as that is the reason to flee from war no?) and get offered shelter and safety, then that would be priceless.
There's a clear difference, and you can tell.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;51482025]I understand what you're saying, however....
There's a difference between getting shelter and safety after fearing for your lives and those of your family members, and getting shelter after hoping to get a more luxurious life.
I don't know, but if i were to fear for my own life and those of my children (as that is the reason to flee from war no?) and get offered shelter and safety, then that would be priceless.
There's a clear difference, and you can tell.[/QUOTE]
There are more things to life than shelter and food, and nowhere in Europe that I know can you live a life on welfare close to any definition of the word "luxurious". The main complains that I've heard seem to come down to the lengthy asylum application process, refugees complain about having to wait several months maybe even up to a year to be granted asylum and be allowed to bring their families over.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51482096]There are more things to life than shelter and food, and nowhere in Europe that I know can you live a life on welfare close to any definition of the word "luxurious". The main complains that I've heard seem to come down to the lengthy asylum application process, refugees complain about having to wait several months maybe even up to a year to be granted asylum and be allowed to bring their families over.[/QUOTE]
But that isn't the complaints were addressing. Those are easily understood.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51482170]But that isn't the complaints were addressing. Those are easily understood.[/QUOTE]
People also tend to complain a lot about everything, these situations need to be dealt with individually
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51482179]People also tend to complain a lot about everything, these situations need to be dealt with individually[/QUOTE]
Eh kinda (really depends on the issue) but honestly not realistic with the numbers.
If you got a group of refugees complaining about the wifi being too slow, then you might want to realise that this group might be different from a group that escaped the frontline areas.
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