Japan remembers 67th Anniversary of Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima. Voices anti-nuclear sentiment. - Polidicks

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/hiroshima-anniversary-atomic-bomb-attack_n_1747920.html]Saucep[/url] [quote]TOKYO -- Japan marked the 67th anniversary of the world's first atomic bomb attack with a ceremony Monday that was attended by a grandson of Harry Truman, the U.S. president who ordered the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. [b]About 50,000 people gathered in Hiroshima's peace park near the epicenter of the 1945 blast that destroyed most of the city and killed as many as 140,000 people. A second atomic bombing Aug. 9 that year in Nagasaki killed tens of thousands more and prompted Japan to surrender to the World War II Allies.[/b] The ceremony, attended by [b]representatives of about 70 countries[/b], began with the ringing of a temple bell and a moment of silence. Flowers were placed before Hiroshima's eternal flame, which is the park's centerpiece. Truman's grandson, Clifton Truman Daniel, and the grandson of a radar operator who was on both of the planes that dropped the atomic bombs, joined in the memorial. Ari Beser's grandfather, Jacob Beser, was the only person who directly took part in both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In a news conference after the memorial, Daniel declined to comment on whether his grandfather's decision was the right one. [b]"I'm two generations down the line. It's now my responsibility to do all I can to make sure we never use nuclear weapons again," he said[/b], according to Japan's Kyodo news service. [b]Daniel, 55, said earlier that he decided to visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki because he needed to know the consequences of his grandfather's decision as part of his own efforts to help achieve a nuclear-free world.[/b] The U.S. government sent a representative – the American ambassador – to the annual commemoration for the first time two years ago. Ambassador John Roos attended the Hiroshima ceremony on Monday. Hiroshima Mayor Kazumi Matsui said Japan must take a bolder role in leading global disarmament efforts and called on world leaders to come to his city to [b]"contemplate peace."He also said the accident at the Fukushima nuclear power plant struck by a tsunami last year has shown the dangers of nuclear technology, even for peaceful purposes, and urged the government to create a mix of energy sources for Japan that is safe and secure. "I firmly believe that the demand for freedom from nuclear weapons will soon spread out from Hiroshima, encircle the globe, and lead us to genuine world peace," he said.[/b] Matsui noted that the average survivor of the bombing is now 78 years old, and said the city is increasing its effort to provide them with health care and chronicle their experiences so the events of that day are remembered. Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda said Japan must pass on the experience to future generations so the lessons of Hiroshima are not forgotten. Daniel is the oldest grandchild of Harry and Bess Truman. He has published two books, a memoir and a collection of his grandparents' letters.[/quote] [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FK.jn.NFkFmdC98MsKWwxQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MTM4MDtjcj0xO2N3PTIwMDA7ZHg9MDtkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTQzNTtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2012-08-06T123209Z_1048922427_GM2E8861KG101_RTRMADP_3_JAPAN.JPG[/img][img]http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.3886528.1344279368!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG[/img][img]http://www.kyivpost.com/media/images/2012/08/06/p173t5s7fg194brlf3se1l2818d14/big.jpg[/img]

That memorial is depressing as all hell, but my empathy is tempered by the aggravation I have towards their anti-nuclear mindset in the wake of Fukishima. I can certainly understand why they feel the way they do on an emotional level, but logically nuclear power is the best source of power we have right now. This might be a bit cynical, but it sounds like they're at least partially using the memorial as a means of furthering an agenda, and I don't like that.

I've been to Hiroshima, as well as the A-Bomb museum there. There's not much I can say after going, it just makes you speechless. It's a pretty powerful place.

[QUOTE] I'm two generations down the line. It's now my responsibility to do all I can to make sure we never use nuclear weapons again[/QUOTE] ignorant idiot

[QUOTE=lockdown6;37116142]he said nuclear weapons not nuclear power[/QUOTE] ignorant idiot [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

I don't understand how japan can turn its nose up at nuclear power, when their country is the most technologically advanced, with lights and grid-powered things fucking everywhere.

[QUOTE=abcpea2;37116169]ignorant idiot[/QUOTE] Every post you have ever made that I have seen so far is shit. Leave. Anyways, back on topic, it is sad that some people pull the anti-nuclear card because of Fukishima. Even my parents were doing it at one point, which is unusual for them. Still, this event was to remember those lost in a tragic event. (Of course, that memorial would be [B]a lot[/B] bigger if we had to go with plan B. Invade Japan. You could add anywhere from 200,000 to 4 million or even higher for some estimates. Thank god it's all hypothetical now)

[QUOTE=Atlascore;37116285]It probably has nothing to do with the fact that they're the only country on the planet that's been a victim of Nuclear warfare. Having two of your cities vaporized and hundreds of thousands of your people killed or suffer horrific disfiguring burns tends to make you dislike anything nuclear related. I mean if L.A. or New York was hit by a nuclear bomb I'm pretty sure America wouldn't be real accepting of anything nuclear.[/QUOTE] By that logic, Japan should be anti fire, since WWII firebombing killed even more Japanese and left thousands more horrifically burned.

We're sorry Japan :(

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37116332]By that logic, Japan should be anti fire, since WWII firebombing killed even more Japanese and left thousands more horrifically burned.[/QUOTE] Incendiary weapons existed since cavemen threw a torch. Atomic weapons are something that was never foreseen.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37116332]By that logic, Japan should be anti fire, since WWII firebombing killed even more Japanese and left thousands more horrifically burned.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between your cities burning down and your cities being completely obliterated in half of a second.

[QUOTE=Amez;37116375]There's a difference between your cities burning down and your cities being completely obliterated in half of a second.[/QUOTE] I don't see a remarkable difference. The Japanese were almost completely helpless to defend themselves against the American bombers. Their entire air force was gone. They were forced to stand idly by while they watched their cities being slowly burned over months, with hundreds of thousands of their friends being incinerated or mutilated by the firebombs. That sounds just as bad if not worse than nuclear bombing. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;37116340]We're sorry Japan :([/QUOTE] Speak for yourself. I won't be sorry until Japan ceases to whitewash and deny it's war crimes.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37116425]I don't see a remarkable difference. The Japanese were almost completely helpless to defend themselves against the American bombers. Their entire air force was gone. They were forced to stand idly by while they watched their cities being slowly burned over months, with hundreds of thousands of their friends being incinerated or mutilated by the firebombs. That sounds just as bad if not worse than nuclear bombing. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] Speak for yourself. I won't be sorry until Japan ceases to whitewash and deny it's war crimes.[/QUOTE] you don't feel sorry for hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese civilians killed in what was essentially a field test for the most powerful weapon in the world?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37116506]you don't feel sorry for hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese civilians killed in what was essentially a field test for the most powerful weapon in the world?[/QUOTE] Oh [b]boy[/b] another one.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37116506]you don't feel sorry for hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese civilians killed in what was essentially a field test for the most powerful weapon in the world?[/QUOTE] It wasn't a field test, we did a ton of those in Nevada (And you could see the glow at night from my city!!) And it was a necessary evil to force Japan's surrender.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37116425] Speak for yourself. I won't be sorry until Japan ceases to whitewash and deny it's war crimes.[/QUOTE] to be fair the US did essentially reveal it dropped the bombs only to scare the Soviets. we know that via documents released far after the bombings.

[QUOTE=abcpea2;37116169]ignorant idiot[/QUOTE] ignorant idiot [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=glitchvid;37116545] And it was a necessary evil to force Japan's surrender.[/QUOTE] Japan was already surrendering.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37116553]Japan was already surrendering.[/QUOTE] Yeah, the officially they where planning to, but a LOT of the millitary commanders and higher-ups planned a coup to stop that, they still tried after the bombing, but, a lot less joined in and it ultimately failed

Memorial is nice and all, but how about acknowledging Pleasure Women, Unit 637, and Nanking? Might be nice if they would atleast acknowledge their past actions.

[QUOTE=abcpea2;37116135]ignorant idiot[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure a Japanese person whose family has experienced the horrors of nuclear warfare may be a tiny bit biased. Just a hunch.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;37116568]Yeah, the officially they where planning to, but a LOT of the millitary commanders and higher-ups planned a coup to stop that, they still tried after the bombing, but, a lot less joined in and it ultimately failed[/QUOTE] when the japanese surrendered unconditionally, they had absolutely no real conception of what the bombings had done. they were far more concerned with the soviet invasion that was occurring in their territory. it's a myth and it's one spread for the express purpose of downplaying the Soviet effort in the Pacific War.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37116553]Japan was already surrendering.[/QUOTE] Yeah, just not under the terms our government preferred. As I recall they wanted to get a potentially better deal through the Soviets, and there was an ultimatum sent by us prior to the bombing that neglected to mention that the Japanese could keep their emperor (as ordered by Truman AFAIK).

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;37116538]Oh [b]boy[/b] another one.[/QUOTE] haha another one of those loons that doesn't immediately wave his american flag when he thinks of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians being vaporized/melted/irradiated :rolleyes: [QUOTE=glitchvid;37116545]It wasn't a field test, we did a ton of those in Nevada (And you could see the glow at night from my city!!) And it was a necessary evil to force Japan's surrender.[/QUOTE] japan was already surrendering dude, and if anything i think we could have chosen a better target for our little fireworks show, preferrably somewhere that wasn't full of civilians

[QUOTE=thisispain;37116582]when the japanese surrendered unconditionally, they had absolutely no real conception of what the bombings had done. they were far more concerned with the soviet invasion that was occurring in their territory. it's a myth and it's one spread for the express purpose of downplaying the Soviet effort in the Pacific War.[/QUOTE] Japan offered surrender to the Soviets, but not to the West- yet, and there were planned coups to both continue and stop the war but none ever came to be. I have heard that the Japanese attempted a conditioned surrender close to the end of WWII, but fact checking that I never found a reliable source other than blogs and progressively-biased "news" sites. Japan did continue and intended to continue the war against America as seen in their defensive plans leading up to the end of the war. We knew well enough that not only were they preparing their citizens for a fight-to-the-death resistance, they were pulling back all of their aircraft as early as 5 months before the fall of Germany to train and prepare for close-range combat and suicide-bombing techniques. There was no indication that Japan was going to seek a surrender to the Americans, but there was more evidence suggesting plans to fight to the death even as the Americans invaded. Interesting enough, their projected plans for their best guesses for the American invasion was actually spot on, and estimates put it anywhere from a half a million dead on the American side to a total American failure. So if you do have a source for the Japanese attempting a conditioned surrender to the West before the atomic bombings, I'd be interested in seeing it. That doesn't mean I'm justifying the use of the bombs here. I'm just saying that I've yet to see evidence that Japan attempted a surrender to America/the West. I'm also not disagreeing on the idea that the atomic bombings were used to scare off the Soviets.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37116553]Japan was already surrendering.[/QUOTE] Japan was a divided house on whether to carry on the fight or surrendering. They were notified the magnitude of the bombs, coupled with constant firebombing of their major cities, a possible invasion, and to top it all off a starving population that could have died off with in six months to a year had Japanese not surrendered. The threat of 'more' A-bombs just toppled the house of cards that the Japanese Army had on trying to keep on fighting the war

i agree only because we know that historically the Soviets aren't bothered at all by mass civilians deaths. [editline]6th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;37116684]Japan was a divided house on whether to carry on the fight or surrendering. They were notified the magnitude of the bombs, coupled with constant firebombing of their major cities, a possible invasion, and to top it all off a starving population that could have died off with in six months to a year had Japanese not surrendered. The threat of 'more' A-bombs just toppled the house of cards that the Japanese Army had on trying to keep on fighting the war[/QUOTE] absolutely not correct at all. you keep forgetting that Japan was extremely worried about the soviet invasion. Japan wanted to surrender before the bombs were ever dropped and we know by the writings of the people involved in the decision of the bombing that the motivation had nothing to do with japan's surrender.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];37116675']Japan offered surrender to the Soviets, but not to the West- yet, and there were planned coups to both continue and stop the war but none ever came to be. I have heard that the Japanese attempted a conditioned surrender close to the end of WWII, but fact checking that I never found a reliable source other than blogs and progressively-biased "news" sites. Japan did continue and intended to continue the war against America as seen in their defensive plans leading up to the end of the war. We knew well enough that not only were they preparing their citizens for a fight-to-the-death resistance, they were pulling back all of their aircraft as early as 5 months before the fall of Germany to train and prepare for close-range combat and suicide-bombing techniques. There was no indication that Japan was going to seek a surrender to the Americans, but there was more evidence suggesting plans to fight to the death even as the Americans invaded. Interesting enough, their projected plans for their best guesses for the American invasion was actually spot on, and estimates put it anywhere from a half a million dead on the American side to a total American failure. So if you do have a source for the Japanese attempting a conditioned surrender to the West before the atomic bombings, I'd be interested in seeing it. That doesn't mean I'm justifying the use of the bombs here. I'm just saying that I've yet to see evidence that Japan attempted a surrender to America/the West. I'm also not disagreeing on the idea that the atomic bombings were used to scare off the Soviets.[/QUOTE] Japan was trying to hold out for one more decisive victory on their side to try to gain a favor with the Soviets. Trying to negotiate with a rival that was curbstomped a few decades ago also does not bode well anyways so they decided to turn to the United States.

Nuclear weapons will never go away nor should they. They're such a great deterrent to conventional warfare. Except of course that proxy war bullshit. But I see that as a decent alternative to vast direct conflicts between developed nations. Of course, the potential for fuckup is high given humans are in charge of them. We've already come close to the end of society a few times.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37116685] absolutely not correct at all. you keep forgetting that Japan was extremely worried about the soviet invasion. Japan wanted to surrender before the bombs were ever dropped and we know by the writings of the people involved in the decision of the bombing that the motivation had nothing to do with japan's surrender.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna have to disagree on this. I'm not a historian, but I do know that the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and the Korean colony was hardly Japan's major concern, and that they knew well enough that the Soviets had no interest in invading the Home Islands, mostly because Japan and the USSR had open communications and a non-aggression pact for the majority of the war. The Soviet invasion of Japanese territory in China took them by surprise, but not so much as to stop them from offering multiple peace deals. The Soviets weren't interested in actually fighting with Japan all that much either, and really only got involved because they wanted a stake in dividing up the Eastern Front and use it for ground to barter for the Western Front. I've yet to see anything that suggests that the Soviets supplied any major threat to the Home Islands and that they played a significant role in the defeat of Japan outside of Manchuria and Korea. By my measure, it seems as though the primary concern for the Japanese before the fall of Germany was protection of the Home Islands, to the point where they sacrificed victories for their colonies in the Pacific (and likely in China) in order to prepare defenses for the assault on the Home Islands.