Exploring Racism in Video Games - General

[video=youtube;4xsmUutxd28]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xsmUutxd28[/video] [QUOTE=description] This is a video that I wanted to make for a while, and hopefully doesn't get me a ton of shit (especially for the ending). I want to clarify further that I think the words are shitty and no one should use them in casual conversation, but if they're in a work of art (video game or otherwise), then, so long as the work isn't created to be racist, it's okay for characters to be racist and say some fucked up shit from time to time. I'll be doing a video in the very near future going more in-depth about racism in the industry and in games in general, but for now I just wanted to talk about why so few games seem to really dive deep into racism relative to real life. P.S. I really hope someone comments "wow what a racist white guy" just so I can reveal the fact that I'm a 5 foot 9, football playin, KFC eatin, grape drink sippin, sellin-oranges-out-the-back-of-a-truck ass Dominican[/QUOTE]

This was interesting until he dropped the bomb at the end, now I'm starting to think he just wants to promote racism.

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849448]This was interesting until he dropped the bomb at the end, now I'm starting to think he just wants to promote racism.[/QUOTE] No, he was making a point. Just because you use the word or have it included in to a certain media does not make it a automatic promotion of racism. For example, Django used the word nigger a lot. I mean a lot, during that time frame the movie took place in that is acceptable. It also showed a lot more horrific things such as the treatment of slaves, which itself was acceptable during that time frame.. The movie itself did not promote racism, but it had elements in it and explored it. He simply stated you shouldn't be afraid to use the word if you're using it to explore a certain theme. Games shouldn't be criticized for certain verbiage or certain scenes, if so we need to criticize movies, music, and other art. People really need to focus on the intent of a writer/artist and the intent. People need to stop just labeling everything as racist because they're afraid to explore or even discuss certain topics, what is even better is trying to have an open minded discussion but being called a racist because someone disagrees with you.

Okay, so why don't we make a game about the KKK in the early 20th century then? Wouldn't that be appropriate by the same standard?

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849521]Okay, so why don't we make a game about the KKK in the early 20th century then? Wouldn't that be appropriate by the same standard?[/QUOTE] Sure, and the game can be anything: It can be an adventure game where you play as a Black person who is being harassed by them. It can be a First-Person game in vein of "No Russian" where you are first hand forced to commit KKK-given actions, whenever you (as a player) really want to or not.

[QUOTE=gufu;49849539]Sure, and the game can be anything: It can be an adventure game where you play as a Black person who is being harassed by them. It can be a First-Person game in vein of "No Russian" where you are first hand forced to commit KKK-given actions, whenever you (as a player) really want to or not.[/QUOTE] Basically this. [QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849521]Okay, so why don't we make a game about the KKK in the early 20th century then? Wouldn't that be appropriate by the same standard?[/QUOTE] But of course, it would be expected to receive some type of attention. Questions will be asked...such as your motivation for making the game. Why are you making it? To promote the KKK and racism? Or are you exploring the themes that led up to the KKK rise in power? For example a Game could do all that, however it would be much better in a movie or documentary. It's all about how you use the media/art and your motivations. Tbh you're really overthinking it.

Great, sounds fun. Don't really care one way or the other, after all I'm a well off, privileged white dude. But fuck me silly if I'm not tired of being reminded that I should feel guilty about what we did to all these niggers. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism" - rilez))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849556]Great, sounds fun. Don't really care one way or the other, after all I'm a well off, privileged white dude. But fuck me silly if I'm not tired of being reminded that I should feel guilty about what we did to all these niggers.[/QUOTE] Eh, now you're living up to your user name. We went from having a fair and honest question and discussion straight to stupidity..

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849556]Great, sounds fun. Don't really care one way or the other, after all I'm a well off, privileged white dude. But fuck me silly if I'm not tired of being reminded that I should feel guilty about what we did to all these niggers.[/QUOTE] are you okay

I'm great, I just don't really understand how it's stupid to think that the only way we're ever going to get over racism is to stop making a fuss over it. Why the hell is it important to have racist themes in ANYTHING?

I'm a "games are art" person but god damn I hate so many of the people that claim to hold the same belief. They refuse to hold games to the same standard as film or literature when it comes to tackling serious topics... or are just batshit insane and don't want film+literature to touch on serious issues either. [QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849448]This was interesting until he dropped the bomb at the end, now I'm starting to think he just wants to promote racism.[/QUOTE] nigga pls.

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849591]I'm great, I just don't really understand how it's stupid to think that the only way we're ever going to get over racism is to stop making a fuss over it. Why the hell is it important to have racist themes in ANYTHING?[/QUOTE] My God, you're right. And while we're at it, let's completely disregard all history, including discontinuing the production of history-related media. ESPECIALLY if it maintains a certain level of historical accuracy to maintain immersion and make the world feel more like what it did in that time period. You're right, though. Fuck it. Throw it [I]all[/I] out.

This dude is nuts if he thinks that TKAM or Django wasn't considered racist. And by the way that Ethnic Cleansing is a very very racist video game. But if we think a game has to have the player actively killing black people and shouting the N-word to be considered racist, we are gonna let racist shit slip in under the radar. Minor point. Don't disagree with his general point that a game can include the N-word or racist depictions and itself not be racist.

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849591]I'm great, I just don't really understand how it's stupid to think that the only way we're ever going to get over racism is to stop making a fuss over it. Why the hell is it important to have racist themes in ANYTHING?[/QUOTE] Racism is still a big deal and it is important that we know history so we don't make the same mistakes again. People need to really step back and look - I mean you're talking from the 1950s-1980s we had major historical events in relation to racism. Only did we just start tackling racial issues nearly 60 years ago...that is not that long ago. [QUOTE=Flameon;49849628]This dude is nuts if he thinks that TKAM or Django wasn't considered racist. And by the way that Ethnic Cleansing is a very very racist video game. But if we think a game has to have the player actively killing black people and shouting the N-word to be considered racist, we are gonna let racist shit slip in under the radar. Minor point. Don't disagree with his general point that a game can include the N-word or racist depictions and itself not be racist.[/QUOTE] That was his point, that game was racist and isn't deemed acceptable. It wasn't exploring racism, it was promoting it.

[QUOTE=MR-X;49849635]Racism is still a big deal and it is important that we know history so we don't make the same mistakes again. People need to really step back and look - I mean you're talking from the 1950s-1980s we had major historical events in relation to racism. Only did we just start tackling racial issues nearly 60 years ago...that is not that long ago.[/QUOTE] Even longer than that if you take into account the large amount of time that it took for the abolition of slavery to even be considered, let alone actually done.

[QUOTE=Flameon;49849628]This dude is nuts if he thinks that TKAM or Django wasn't considered racist. And by the way that Ethnic Cleansing is a very very racist video game. But if we think a game has to have the player actively killing black people and shouting the N-word to be considered racist, we are gonna let racist shit slip in under the radar. Minor point. Don't disagree with his general point that a game can include the N-word or racist depictions and itself not be racist.[/QUOTE] Do you consider To Kill a A Mockingbird and Django to be racist? What about 12 Years A Slave?

[QUOTE=Zoran;49849643]Even longer than that if you take into account the large amount of time that it took for the abolition of slavery to even be considered, let alone actually done.[/QUOTE] Absolutely, but I was just using that as an example because the video uses some games that are featured around that time frame. Plus I am Dumb ideal of racism not being a big deal, when in reality we gotta make some real strides.

[QUOTE=MR-X;49849635] That was his point, that game was racist and isn't deemed acceptable. It wasn't exploring racism, it was promoting it.[/QUOTE] Absolutely! I'm just saying that games can be racist even if they don't have the player shooting black people. Like that one game that included a minigame that was Tetris but with slaves. or #Blocklivesmatter?..

[QUOTE=Flameon;49849628] And by the way that Ethnic Cleansing is a very very racist video game. But if we think a game has to have the player actively killing black people and shouting the N-word to be considered racist, we are gonna let racist shit slip in under the radar.[/QUOTE] Games should be allowed to be racist and tackle racist topics.

[QUOTE=Zyler;49849650]Do you consider To Kill a A Mockingbird and Django to be racist? What about 12 Years A Slave?[/QUOTE] Personally no. But people tried to ban TKAM, and tons of people think Django is racist (do a quick google search). I'm just saying that this isn't unique to video games. [editline]2nd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Rangergxi;49849659]Games should be allowed to be racist and tackle racist topics.[/QUOTE] Games should be allowed to tackle racist topics... I don't think games should further racism. I don't think any medium for expression should further racism. But hey, thats just me.

[QUOTE=Flameon;49849665]Personally no. But people tried to ban TKAM, and tons of people think Django is racist (do a quick google search). I'm just saying that this isn't unique to video games.[/QUOTE] Then the question I'd ask is how influential were those people? Were they major reviewers and journalists and television news programmes or were they random nobodies on the internet?

To be honest with you man, and you're obviously going to disagree with me, history is important to understand only so long as it gives you an approximate map as to how we ended up here, in this particular situation. Is bantering over the same shit for decades going to solve the issue of racism? Obviously not, is replicating the past disgust of our differences with each other through entertainment? No, it isn't, I don't really care if people want to fight over who's skin looks better, have at it. This just prolongs the problem, it's like throwing salt in a wound that's never going to heal anyways.

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849679]To be honest with you man, and you're obviously going to disagree with me, history is important to understand only so long as it gives you an approximate map as to how we ended up here, in this particular situation. Is bantering over the same shit for decades going to solve the issue of racism? Obviously not, is replicating the past disgust of our differences with each other through entertainment? No, it isn't, I don't really care if people want to fight over who's skin looks better, have at it. This just prolongs the problem, it's like throwing salt in a wound that's never going to heal anyways.[/QUOTE] What level of understanding does someone need to have in order to understand how society ended up in the current situation? Does anybody even have that information? Surely, If enough people had enough information about our history in order to solve current social problems, we would've been able solve them by now. We need more cultural understanding of the historical origins of racism, not less. The only time we need to stop constantly learning about racism and why it's bad is when there are no racist people left who need to be educated, which is probably not going to be anytime soon.

[QUOTE=Flameon;49849658] or #Blocklivesmatter?..[/QUOTE] You're literally delusional if you think a 4 sided figure in a video game can be racist.

[QUOTE=Zyler;49849678]Then the question I'd ask is how influential were those people? Were they major reviewers and journalists and television news programmes or were they random nobodies on the internet?[/QUOTE] TKAM was banned in a bunch of places in the 60's. I think thats pretty influential? And pretty prominent people think Tarentino is racist, so much so you'll find articles like this [url]http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/13/quentin-tarantino-on-race-and-black-critics-the-hateful-eight[/url]

[QUOTE=I Am Dumb;49849556]Great, sounds fun. Don't really care one way or the other, after all I'm a well off, privileged white dude. But fuck me silly if I'm not tired of being reminded that I should feel guilty about what we did to all these niggers.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't put it like that. I know what white people have done over the course of human history, I've read enough history to know that clearly, all the Colonialism and Empire, all the Slavery and oppression. The crimes and ghettos. But all of that has happened to many races, not just black, and over the course of thousands of years. I'm just a fat white nerd born in 1993, I don't hate any race nor think I'm superior nor inferior to anyone. But I know one cold hard fact that not many people think about when someone is yelling on tumblr for example about how white people suck. What can we do right now, RIGHT NOW, to really make up for EVERYTHING the white race has ever done? Nothing. We can pay millions of dollars, erect momuments, give speeches, but it won't really ever fix what we have done, nothing ever really will. The only right thing anyone can really to make it somewhat better, is to remember. To remember Slavery in the American south, to remember Nazi Germany and it's swastikas, so things like that will never happen to the levels of those moments. Slavery still exists, but it's heavily illegal because we know it's bad, Facism won't become as big as it once was because we know what happens when it does get big enough, we have a new Nazi Germany. TL;DR: It's impossible to pay reparations for all the racism and shit that's happen over the course of a long long long time, and be satisfied. But by simply being good to each other and remembering the past, it's a good start.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;49849702]You're literally delusional if you think a 4 sided figure in a video game can be racist.[/QUOTE] whatissymbolism

[QUOTE=Flameon;49849658] Like that one game that included a minigame that was Tetris but with slaves. [/QUOTE] The game looks terrible but honestly you're just being dense if you're not seeing the statement they're making about slavery with "slave tetris". [QUOTE=Flameon;49849658] or #Blocklivesmatter?..[/QUOTE] Racist jokes = being racist is just silliness.

[QUOTE=Flameon;49849703]TKAM was banned in a bunch of places in the 60's. I think thats pretty influential? And pretty prominent people think Tarentino is racist, so much so you'll find articles like this [url]http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/13/quentin-tarantino-on-race-and-black-critics-the-hateful-eight[/url][/QUOTE] For To Kill A Mockingbird, I don't think you'd be able to find many examples of the kind of censorship that happened in the 1960s today. As for Tarantino, I'll concede there. What about 12 Years A Slave, was there any response to that film?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49849716]The game looks terrible but honestly you're just being dense if you're not seeing the statement they're making about slavery with "slave tetris". Racist jokes = being racist is just silliness.[/QUOTE] Jokes can deal with race without being racist. But yes, racist jokes are racist ... is this controversial? I think your point about the Tetris is strong though! Thats an interesting take on it which renders that minigame defensible. Other scenes like the way Postal II portrays Muslims... a lot less defensible to me.