Ukraine and Gazprom in bitter gas dispute as winter approaches and Kiev's gas debt nears $6Bn - Polidicks

[IMG]http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2012-09-07/0907_gazprom_630x420.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]KIEV, Ukraine — The frigid water that comes out of the “hot” faucet of Alexander Korniienko’s shower in Kiev is a warning for his nation: After months without natural gas shipments from Russia, Ukraine may be facing a chilly winter. Ukrainians are layering their sweaters in preparation for yet another tough confrontation with the Kremlin, this time over energy. It is a replay of previous wintertime gas cutoffs by Russia that led to accusations that the Kremlin was using its bountiful energy supplies as a political weapon. This year, any wintertime shortfall could be far more serious for Ukrainians already contending with the dire effects of a separatist war. Korniienko has been on the vanguard of those facing the latest gas cutoff, since Kiev eliminated city-provided hot water in July as a conservation measure. Now he bathes by heating water in pots on his stove and sloshing it over his head. “We have the ice-bucket challenge every morning,” said Korniienko, 23, a computer programmer. “You take one shower and you go out and you get sick,” he added, suppressing a sneeze. After months of grinding negotiations, officials from Russia, Ukraine and the European Union on Friday announced a last-ditch proposal to help Ukraine get through the winter, but the sides still appeared to be squabbling over the price Russia will charge Ukraine. Analysts said the plans may still be derailed. KIEV, Ukraine — The frigid water that comes out of the “hot” faucet of Alexander Korniienko’s shower in Kiev is a warning for his nation: After months without natural gas shipments from Russia, Ukraine may be facing a chilly winter. Ukrainians are layering their sweaters in preparation for yet another tough confrontation with the Kremlin, this time over energy. It is a replay of previous wintertime gas cutoffs by Russia that led to accusations that the Kremlin was using its bountiful energy supplies as a political weapon. This year, any wintertime shortfall could be far more serious for Ukrainians already contending with the dire effects of a separatist war. Korniienko has been on the vanguard of those facing the latest gas cutoff, since Kiev eliminated city-provided hot water in July as a conservation measure. Now he bathes by heating water in pots on his stove and sloshing it over his head. “We have the ice-bucket challenge every morning,” said Korniienko, 23, a computer programmer. “You take one shower and you go out and you get sick,” he added, suppressing a sneeze. After months of grinding negotiations, officials from Russia, Ukraine and the European Union on Friday announced a last-ditch proposal to help Ukraine get through the winter, but the sides still appeared to be squabbling over the price Russia will charge Ukraine. Analysts said the plans may still be derailed. The E.U. is eager to foster a deal, because continued disruptions in Russian gas shipments could extend the winter discomfort to Eastern European nations that are largely dependent on Russia for their supplies of natural gas. Most of Europe is as far north as Canada — Minneapolis is at roughly the same latitude as southern France, and Kiev is level with Calgary — so winters can be bitter. Natural gas is the most important fuel for heating their homes and providing hot water. Energy experts and diplomats warn that Ukraine has not done enough to prepare for a season with severely limited gas supplies even as other European nations have been trying to stockpile the resource as a safety measure. “It is not going to be easy,” Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk told a Ukrainian television station this month. “Freeze? No, we will not freeze. But it is not going to be warm, I warn you.” Russia seized Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in March and then backed a separatist insurgency in Ukraine’s east that has cost at least 3,500 lives, according to U.N. estimates. The conflict has severely damaged infrastructure there. As the ground fighting worsened over the summer, so did the confrontation over energy. “People understand what the situation is,” Ukrainian Energy and Coal Industry Minister Yuriy Prodan said in an interview ahead of the Friday negotiations. “They know that Russia switched off gas. They know that Russia is leading a war against us, not just war but also an economic war. And naturally they expect a complicated fall and winter period,” Under the E.U. plan proposed Friday, Ukraine would repay $2 billion in debt to the state-backed Russian gas company Gazprom by the end of October and an additional $1.1 billion by the end of the year. In return, Gazprom would supply at least 5 billion cubic meters of gas to Ukraine over the next six months at $385 per 1,000 cubic meters, roughly on par with average European prices and the price Ukraine was paying until December 2013. Ukraine needs 5 billion to 12 billion cubic meters of gas beyond what it has stored to make it through the winter, officials have said. The E.U. price proposal is in line with what Russia has been pushing for months, reflecting a mounting European effort to have Ukraine settle the dispute and avoid a broader disruption of gas supplies. About 15 percent of the gas that Europe uses transits through Ukrainian pipelines. Ukraine depends on Russia for 60 percent of its gas. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russias-gazprom-and-ukraine-are-in-a-gas-dispute-as-winter-approaches/2014/09/27/a7c9bcb2-45a8-11e4-b437-1a7368204804_story.html[/url]

export american gas imported from middle-east to ukraine

[QUOTE=Solomon;46110906]export american gas imported from middle-east to ukraine[/QUOTE] And you think they'll pay for that? They didn't even pay when Russia heavily discounted their gas. They're offering pricing in line with other members of the EU and they still want a better deal.

Stay frosty Ukraine

You no pay, you no get, easy

Iwonder if any off the Ukrainian oligarchs will show their patriotism. Petro is a rich guy I wonder if he will prove his days off corruption are behind him and that he really loves his country. Like Santa incarnate or scroodge after the visions

[QUOTE=LVL FACTORY;46111236]You no pay, you no get, easy[/QUOTE] Russia invades you, you must pay. easy.

[QUOTE=Solomon;46110906]export american gas imported from middle-east to ukraine[/QUOTE] America probably won't export their gas because their market isn't international yet, their domestic prices are alot better than international prices iirc. Alternatively ukraine could import LNG from Qatar, but I don't think they have any infrastructure to sustain large LNG transports.

[QUOTE=Squad1993;46111373]Russia invades you, you must pay. easy.[/QUOTE] Ukraine was in trouble before Russia invaded Crimea. They were in the process of getting a several billion dollar loan from Russia when the riots happened Russia cancelled. Russia is still offering Ukraine cheap gas but they can't afford it, despite the Imf loan. I really think the rich there should ensure their workers, families and friends don't freeze this winter. [editline]30th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=SuicideZ;46111386]America probably won't export their gas because their market isn't international yet, their domestic prices are alot better than international prices iirc. Alternatively ukraine could import LNG from Qatar, but I don't think they have any infrastructure to sustain large LNG transports.[/QUOTE] No way Ukraine could possibly import from US, especially if they can't afford it from Russia. Charity or partying for the gas is the only way

Does Ukraine even have a major port left to take imports?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46113000]Does Ukraine even have a major port left to take imports?[/QUOTE] Odessa?

This is sort of why I keep an electric heater just in case something goes wrong with my oil heater, and crates of paraffin candles just in case something goes wrong with that, and if all else fails I can have a wood stove set up in about 20 minutes in the basement. And if all that goes wrong, luckily I have the homemade fusion reactor in the sub-basement. Redundancy is important so you don't freeze. Also, hot pockets cooked over a wood fire in a barrel are surprisingly delicious.

[QUOTE=Mech Bgum;46111791]That's a national joke here for as long as I can remember myself - Ukraine never fully paid for at least a decade. Not related to recent events in any way.[/QUOTE] Actually related because Russia ignored the fact that Ukraine didn't pay for a long time. After Maidan it was used as a way to control Kiev. Russkies just said:"You don't like us? Well then pay". Ukraine refused to play by Russia's rules and got their gas flow finally shut. Imo this should have happened a long time ago because the debt was immense and it was clear Ukraine is not going to pay for at least 5 years.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;46113078]This is sort of why I keep an electric heater just in case something goes wrong with my oil heater, and crates of paraffin candles just in case something goes wrong with that, and if all else fails I can have a wood stove set up in about 20 minutes in the basement. And if all that goes wrong, luckily I have the homemade fusion reactor in the sub-basement. Redundancy is important so you don't freeze. Also, hot pockets cooked over a wood fire in a barrel are surprisingly delicious.[/QUOTE] I take it the fusion reactor is on a hand crank to start it up in the event of electrical grid failure? :v:

[quote]Korniienko has been on the vanguard of those facing the latest gas cutoff, since Kiev eliminated [B]city-provided hot water[/B] in July as a conservation measure. [/quote] how does this work, exactly? do you guys not have individual water heaters or something? or is it just that the city would normally provide gas for your water heater?

[QUOTE]Now he bathes by heating water in pots on his stove and sloshing it over his head.[/QUOTE] I've lived like this before. It isn't fun, but isn't devastating. Pretty bad news for the industrial side of things though.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46114319]how does this work, exactly? do you guys not have individual water heaters or something? or is it just that the city would normally provide gas for your water heater?[/QUOTE] In most cases city provides both: hot and cold water, they have two water meters (one for hot, one for cold) and that's how you pay your bills. If you wish to install your own heater and control your hot water charges - you get hot water supply disconnected then you just pay for gas/electricity that heater uses. That's as far as I know, if that's still how it works of course, last time I was in East it was a good few years ago.