• Apple Could Face Massive Tax Bill With EU Ruling, As Treasury Department Cries Foul
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The Commission investigation has focused on whether multinational companies, including Apple, were engaging in controversial practices to lower their tax bills. In 2015, the Commission, which investigated similar deals involving Fiat Finance and Trade in Luxembourg and Starbucks in the Netherlands, found that “selective tax advantages” were granted to those companies. Those advantages, the Commission found, allowed those companies to artificially lower their tax bills, “saving” millions in taxes. As a result, the Commission has ordered Fiat and Starbucks to repay tens of millions of euros in back taxes. Those decisions are being appealed. A similar finding, ruling that Apple benefited from a special deal with Ireland, is expected. Investment bank JP Morgan has warned that such a ruling could cost the company as much as [B][U]$19 billion[/U][/B], though The Irish Times reports that the tax liability is “expected to amount to hundreds of millions of euro.” No matter what the number looks like, don’t expect Apple to pay up any time soon. Apple’s CEO, Tim Cook, has said about the investigation, “I don’t know how they will rule. I hope that we get a fair hearing. If we don’t, then we would obviously appeal it.” [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/08/29/apple-could-face-massive-tax-bill-with-eu-ruling-as-treasury-department-cries-foul[/url]
Yet America is willing to lose out on those taxes because "they'll just go somewhere else!"
Sucks to be Apple.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50969271]Yet America is willing to lose out on those taxes because "they'll just go somewhere else!"[/QUOTE] What we need is for Europe and America to all slap the collective shit of the corporations and take what big money owes them. They're both too big a market for big money to "take its business elsewhere" just because it's been forced to pay what it's owed.
They have the money. Literally more than half of the people in the world who use smart phones, their smart phones are iPhones.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50971627]They have the money. Literally more than half of the people in the world who use smart phones, their smart phones are iPhones.[/QUOTE] Apple has over 50% worldwide marketshare? That is extreme news to me.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50971627]They have the money. Literally more than half of the people in the world who use smart phones, their smart phones are iPhones.[/QUOTE] You do realize that iPhones are only super popular in the US and Japan right? [url]https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1[/url]
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50969271]Yet America is willing to lose out on those taxes because "they'll just go somewhere else!"[/QUOTE] Hey man They create the jobs, you should be grateful to them for gracing you with the opportunity to work for them. If you going to STEAL from them they'll just go elsewhere and then there will be no jobs Why do you hate business so much man Apple earned all that money if you say otherwise its the politics of envy and communism/socialism/fascism/some other misappropriated political ideology which can conveniently be used to shut up anyone complaining about injustice and inequality.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50972196]Hey man They create the jobs, you should be grateful to them for gracing you with the opportunity to work for them. If you going to STEAL from them they'll just go elsewhere and then there will be no jobs Why do you hate business so much man Apple earned all that money if you say otherwise its the politics of envy and communism/socialism/fascism/some other misappropriated political ideology which can conveniently be used to shut up anyone complaining about injustice and inequality.[/QUOTE] It frightens me that there are popular politicians who legitimately believe this.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50969271]Yet America is willing to lose out on those taxes because "they'll just go somewhere else!"[/QUOTE] Somehow taxing these companies more is a good thing? I mean sure yeah higher taxes disproportionately affect the poor but just driving them up for no good reason is just dumb. "Redistribution of wealth" is an idea that should die out because historically lower taxes have shown to create business boom, and higher taxes tend to cause outsourcing. Also, right now America has way higher of a business tax than most European countries.
[QUOTE=space1;50972687]Somehow taxing these companies more is a good thing? I mean sure yeah higher taxes disproportionately affect the poor but just driving them up for no good reason is just dumb. "Redistribution of wealth" is an idea that should die out because historically lower taxes have shown to create business boom, and higher taxes tend to cause outsourcing. Also, right now America has way higher of a business tax than most European countries.[/QUOTE] So companies should be able to set up shop in any country, use said country's infrastructure and resources to turn a profit and not give anything of note to the country in return? If a company tries to weasel its way out of paying for what allows them to make money in the first place, then by all means they should be punished accordingly.
Apple paid 1% or less in corporate tax dating back to 2003 in an Irish deal ruled illegal by the European Commission (EC). Rather than collect back taxes however, Ireland plans to appeal as a growing number of countries battle what they view as an overly-aggressive Commission. Ireland’s’ corporate tax rate of 12.5% - already attractive compared to America’s top federal rate of 35% - was allegedly discounted further for Apple in what some have described as a "sweetheart" tax deal in exchange for jobs. Apple employs more than 5,000 in Ireland. "This is illegal under EU State Aid rules, because it allowed Apple to pay substantially less tax than other businesses," EU anti-trust chief Margrethe Vestager said in a statement announcing the decision.</a> "This selective treatment allowed Apple to pay an effective corporate tax rate of 1% on its European profits in 2003 down to 0.005% in 2014." [url]http://www.internationaltaxreview.com/Article/3581699/EC-State-Aid-ruling-Apple-paid-corporate-tax-of-0005-in-2014.html[/url]
Apple is both my favorite and least favorite company I can't defend them on this one. If they're found guilty, so be it
Fucking hell, our government is going to appeal this and refuse the 13 billion, likely because we'll have to change tax rules to avoid this type of nonsense and that could potentially lead to some job losses - and also because it'd admit to wrong-doing. Great. Well, this is going to embarrass us further. Thanks, Bertie. We're still dealing with your shit after all these years.
[QUOTE=parsley;50972898]Apple paid 1% or less in corporate tax dating back to 2003 in an Irish deal ruled illegal by the European Commission (EC). Rather than collect back taxes however, [B]Ireland plans to appeal as a growing number of countries battle what they view as an overly-aggressive Commission.[/B][/QUOTE] What the hell? The entire point of the UE is to stick together to be stronger than the individual sum of its members. If you provide a gateway for unscrupulous multinationals to operate in Europe without even contributing a fair amount of money in exchange, all that for your own country's benefit, you're not playing ball and absolutely deserve the Commission to go "overly-aggressive" on your ass.
[QUOTE=_Axel;50973740]What the hell? The entire point of the UE is to stick together to be stronger than the individual sum of its members. If you provide a gateway for unscrupulous multinationals to operate in Europe without even contributing a fair amount of money in exchange, all that for your own country's benefit, you're not playing ball and absolutely deserve the Commission to go "overly-aggressive" on your ass.[/QUOTE] Don't ask us. No-one really understands what the actual hell is going on. All I'm going to say is that this probably stems from Fianna Fail's and Bertie Ahern's bullshit, and I wouldn't be surprised the fact the current government is relying on FF is playing into this.
[IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/b454e3a3952517e36c0ad7b34c272891.png[/IMG] By refusing and appealing, they are essentially refusing a year of free healthcare.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50973694]Fucking hell, our government is going to appeal this and refuse the 13 billion, likely because we'll have to change tax rules to avoid this type of nonsense and that could potentially lead to some job losses - and also because it'd admit to wrong-doing. Great. Well, this is going to embarrass us further. Thanks, Bertie. We're still dealing with your shit after all these years.[/QUOTE] If Ireland goes along with this, Apple can claim a foreign tax credit from the US and force American taxpayers to pick up the tab, which in its entirety amounts to more than half of the $21b public cost of the 2008 bank bailout. This needs to be appealed.
[QUOTE=_Axel;50972793]So companies should be able to set up shop in any country, use said country's infrastructure and resources to turn a profit and not give anything of note to the country in return? If a company tries to weasel its way out of paying for what allows them to make money in the first place, then by all means they should be punished accordingly.[/QUOTE] How is any of that relevant to raising taxes??? Stopping people from abusing tax laws/committing fraud is an obligation the government owes to us, it's constituents. None of this proves that taxes somehow = economical growth. "I like my shoes, they fit very well" "Well yeah, but they look like shit. Brown is a bad color."
[QUOTE=space1;50975924]How is any of that relevant to raising taxes??? Stopping people from abusing tax laws/committing fraud is an obligation the government owes to us, it's constituents. None of this proves that taxes somehow = economical growth. "I like my shoes, they fit very well" "Well yeah, but they look like shit. Brown is a bad color."[/QUOTE] Where did you get that economic growth was the only goal society had to strive for? Growth doesn't mean jack shit on its own. You can get huge growth while utterly destroying the environment. Wars cause surges in growth because people have to rebuild all the shit that was destroyed and the lowered population reduces unemployment, does it mean it's a good thing? If growth only benefits corporations and not the people who pay for the infrastructures they use, then it's pretty much useless if not detrimental to most of the population? But I guess you don't give a shit about that because you believe "redistribution of wealth is an idea that should die". The way you put it, it's like you can't compute anything more complex than a single goal. Growth isn't the end all be all, if anything the well-being of the constituents is more of a priority. Besides, who the hell brought up raising taxes? The astronomical sums in question here is money that Apple [I]should[/I] have paid in the first place.
[QUOTE=space1;50972687]Somehow taxing these companies more is a good thing? I mean sure yeah higher taxes disproportionately affect the poor but just driving them up for no good reason is just dumb. "Redistribution of wealth" is an idea that should die out because historically lower taxes have shown to create business boom, and higher taxes tend to cause outsourcing. Also, right now America has way higher of a business tax than most European countries.[/QUOTE] That doesn't work anymore. In the old days, in a different world, low tax brought around business boom, but with a globalised world of today, it doesn't work that way anymore. Outsourcing will be infinitely cheaper than building in-country regardless of tax, which they don't pay or use tax loopholes to drastically reduce.
[QUOTE=parsley;50969145]The Commission investigation has focused on whether multinational companies, including Apple, were engaging in controversial practices to lower their tax bills. In 2015, the Commission, which investigated similar deals involving Fiat Finance and Trade in Luxembourg and Starbucks in the Netherlands, found that “selective tax advantages” were granted to those companies. Those advantages, the Commission found, allowed those companies to artificially lower their tax bills, “saving” millions in taxes. As a result, the Commission has ordered Fiat and Starbucks to repay tens of millions of euros in back taxes. Those decisions are being appealed. A similar finding, ruling that Apple benefited from a special deal with Ireland, is expected. Investment bank JP Morgan has warned that such a ruling could cost the company as much as [B][U]$19 billion[/U][/B], though The Irish Times reports that the tax liability is “expected to amount to hundreds of millions of euro.” No matter what the number looks like, don’t expect Apple to pay up any time soon. Apple’s CEO, Tim Cook, has said about the investigation, “I don’t know how they will rule. I hope that we get a fair hearing. If we don’t, then we would obviously appeal it.” [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/08/29/apple-could-face-massive-tax-bill-with-eu-ruling-as-treasury-department-cries-foul[/url][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]No matter what the number looks like, don’t expect Apple to pay up any time soon[/QUOTE] If they end up at the end of their legal options and still dont come out on top, they either pay up or lose almost all business to the EU, allowing others to get a foothold on their market niche. TBH if apple no longer is able to sell in the EU, expect apple to be done for within the decade [editline]31st August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=space1;50972687]Somehow taxing these companies more is a good thing? I mean sure yeah higher taxes disproportionately affect the poor but just driving them up for no good reason is just dumb. "Redistribution of wealth" is an idea that should die out because historically lower taxes have shown to create business boom, and higher taxes tend to cause outsourcing. Also, right now America has way higher of a business tax than most European countries.[/QUOTE] This has only shown to be true in the US, everywhere else high corporate taxes low individual taxes means a smaller poverty population, more industry and more sales. Yes, prices will charge the taxes to the consumers, but consumers will have a choice in what tax they want to participate... there are SOME exceptions where the reverse is true, most of them are in US conservative economic textbooks... but they are not representative for the whole. you are being bamboozled by conservative lobbyists.
[QUOTE=_Axel;50976067]Where did you get that economic growth was the only goal society had to strive for? Growth doesn't mean jack shit on its own. You can get huge growth while utterly destroying the environment. Wars cause surges in growth because people have to rebuild all the shit that was destroyed and the lowered population reduces unemployment, does it mean it's a good thing? If growth only benefits corporations and not the people who pay for the infrastructures they use, then it's pretty much useless if not detrimental to most of the population? But I guess you don't give a shit about that because you believe "redistribution of wealth is an idea that should die". The way you put it, it's like you can't compute anything more complex than a single goal. Growth isn't the end all be all, if anything the well-being of the constituents is more of a priority. Besides, who the hell brought up raising taxes? The astronomical sums in question here is money that Apple [I]should[/I] have paid in the first place.[/QUOTE] All "redistribution of wealth" does is line the pockets of those in the government. Your main point here is "Let's stifle growth and accelerate our own descent into becoming a third world country because I have a high school education and never took a class on economics". You need businesses to create jobs with which to get a living wage in the first place, not the other way around. [QUOTE]This has only shown to be true in the US, everywhere else high corporate taxes low individual taxes means a smaller poverty population, more industry and more sales. Yes, prices will charge the taxes to the consumers, but consumers will have a choice in what tax they want to participate... there are SOME exceptions where the reverse is true, most of them are in US conservative economic textbooks... but they are not representative for the whole. you are being bamboozled by conservative lobbyists.[/QUOTE] No, there's free economic zones all around the world where growth is higher because of that. Even most European countries understand that exempting certain regions from tax early in their development makes them more attractive to businesses, workers, and investors. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_economic_zone[/URL] Also, to clarify, I should state that while higher taxes disproportionately affect the working class, I am not advocating a higher tax on the individual, but rather, I am advocating a lower tax rate all across the board. Please educate yourself on the following topics as well while you're at it: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax [/URL]
[QUOTE=space1;50979756]All "redistribution of wealth" does is line the pockets of those in the government.[/QUOTE] What? You know just because your government can't be arsed to set up a proper social security system doesn't mean it's impossible to do, right? Your rhetoric doesn't work on Europeans, pretty much all countries there have some form of redistribution of wealth set in place and it works to an extent. It definitely does much more than just "line the pocket of those in government" LMAO. [QUOTE]Your main point here is "Let's stifle growth and accelerate our own descent into becoming a third world country because I have a high school education and never took a class on economics". You need businesses to create jobs with which to get a living wage in the first place, not the other way around.[/QUOTE] No, my main point is growth isn't the sole goal of a civilized society, and pursuing it brainlessly leads nowhere. I guess I shouldn't make any effort to articulate a sensible point though, it's a waste of time since you won't even try to understand it. And in case you want to keep on throwing baseless ad-hominems at me, I'll just say that I attended a seminar by an ESSEC economics professor who basically argued for what I'm defending here. I'm not fresh out of high-school FYI.
[QUOTE=space1;50979756]All "redistribution of wealth" does is line the pockets of those in the government. Your main point here is "Let's stifle growth and accelerate our own descent into becoming a third world country because I have a high school education and never took a class on economics". You need businesses to create jobs with which to get a living wage in the first place, not the other way around. Also, to clarify, I should state that while higher taxes disproportionately affect the working class, I am not advocating a higher tax on the individual, but rather, I am advocating a lower tax rate all across the board. Please educate yourself on the following topics as well while you're at it: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax [/URL][/QUOTE] This is what happens when you don't pay attention to recent history in your own country. More uneducated people making decisions.
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